Traditional Mortise & Tenon Joints: A Treatise

[Deansocial]

Dean, what is?

vertical section of a door.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Laughing out loud!  English is truly the language that both unites and separates us.

Reminds me of a long ago day when I programmed in a computer language named APL.  The author's idea was to totally avoid the use of english language terms such as "go to" or "print" since they could be ambiguous and misleading.  So the language was composed of characters such as the backslash and ampersand to symbolize actions such as adding and subtracting.  It produced incredibly compact and unambiguous code, but it took me half an hour to understand each line and gave me a huge headache.  

I guess we need some ambiguity....

 

[nickao]

Muttons and Mullions

 

[Deansocial]

Muttons and Mullions

maybe the 2 terms are mixed up between door and window manufacture, i believe the book i have taken it from to be from 1869, pity i cant find the window terms in here to compare

 

[joraft]

... I certainly would not want a vocab discussion to spoil a good thread.

Richard, I think vocabulary discussions can be both interesting AND useful.

In the auto repair business there are often many names for the same part or tool. I use to tell my employees that it wasn't important how many names there were for things, only that everyone in our shop used the same ones.  [big grin]

 

[RONWEN]

A great post Rob, I'll definitely add that one to my reference notebook.  Thanks.

 

[Rob-GB]

Just to clarify, I was always taught that the vertical members in doors between the stiles are called Muntins. The vertical members separating window sashes are mullions.
Every book written in Britain that I own on woodworking agrees with this and one published in Canada. However, I have a book written by an American on making doors and windows and he calls muntins mullions.
So I shall continue to call a muntin a muntin, you never know, it might just catch on over the pond.  [dead horse]  ;D

[thanks] for all the feedback, guys.

Rob.

 

[tiralie]

I posted a while back that I would do a write up on tenons as there are some areas of misinformation on the net.
Several Fora have repeat posts about the subject and the forthcoming replies are often erroneous. Hopefully this post can be a source of information for beginners and experienced woodworkers alike.
Please take it as it is meant, a way to understand the (possibly) most common form of tried and tested woodworking joint. Of course any constructive criticism will be welcome as this is the first time I have done this kind of writing.
Thank you, Rob.

Thanks very concise and informative. Not sure how I missed this originally.
Just for the heck of it I compared your notes to the appropriate sections of George Ellis's "Modern Practical Joinery" and Ernst Joyces' "The Technique of Furniture Making". While they are both very good, and cover more ground, your take is much more to the point.
Tim

 

[duburban]

what happens when everyone has the domzilla? will there be times when a professional trying to make a living will use these methods vs something so quick? for those of us without complete wood working shops it actually would be cheaper to invest in the domzilla to complete these tasks. i will learn this joinery when i have space and time to carry the vernacular through my generation but its interesting to see tooling compete with tradition. i just saw a lecture on CNC, man do we have to produce to keep up with those things!

thanks for the information Rob

 

[Rob-GB]

I know this is an old thread but I had cause to come find it again and I am, well, gobsmacked!

The PDF has been downloaded 2810 times.!!!  [jawdrop] That is amazing.

[thanks] for all the interest shown, I hope it has been useful to those that read it.

Rob.  [big grin]

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Rob

I have just arrived here from another thread - many thanks for this.

Excellent.

Peter

 

[Lbob131]

In Fig 11  in the pdf, what process  is involved  to machine the profiles  and leave a tenon that  length  all in one pass?

I'm thinking Trend  Ovolo  shoulder  Scribe & Profile set  fitted to the spindle moulder.
But  not possible as a single pass  in a spindle moulder?

Apart from the tenon  with  felders  big 250mm  diameter  slotters.

I  did the joinery  on an exterior  door a while  back using the domizilla.

 

[Rob-GB]

In Fig 11  in the pdf, what process  is involved  to machine the profiles  and leave a tenon that  length  all in one pass?

I'm thinking Trend  Ovolo  shoulder  Scribe & Profile set  fitted to the spindle moulder.
But  not possible as a single pass  in a spindle moulder?

Apart from the tenon  with  felders  big 250mm  diameter  slotters.

I  did the joinery  on an exterior  door a while  back using the domizilla.

Big old tenoners like those made by Wadkin  that have upper and lower heads and cut off saw with appropriate cutter heads would do the job but asking a spindle moulder or router table to do the job in one go is outside their scope. I showed a way to do it in a previous thread using the CMS here
Using dominoes for doors or windows is fine but take on board some of the concepts covered in the PDF, you will see them used in the above link also.

Peter, thank you for resurrecting this thread, I am pleased so many people found it useful.

Rob.

 

[Lbob131]

Ok thanks.

 

[Nick C]

Very nice article, but I must suggest a clarification of the fox tenon. A "through tenon", as the term implies, is taken right through the mating workpiece. It can be wedged or not. If it is wedged, then the ends of the wedges are visible. A "stop tenon" does not go all the way through; neither does the mortise. A "fox tenon" is a wedged stop tenon. The tenon is cut to the required depth, and slotted to accept wedges. The mortise is dug to the required depth, and is undercut slightly so as to accommodate the spreading  action of the wedges. On assembly, glue is applied, the wedges are inserted part way into the tenon, which is then inserted under clamping pressure. When the tenon is almost home, the wedges contact the bottom of the mortise, and additional clamping pressure causes the tenon to be spread apart by the wedges as it reaches its full depth. If cut properly, there is a worrisome resistance to the clamp, but finally there is a satisfying "snap" as the wedges seat and the tenon expands. Obviously, some care must be taken when cutting the joint and the wedges, but the result is extremely strong, and highly recommended when a through tenon is not appropriate.

 

[Rob-GB]

Very nice article, but I must suggest a clarification of the fox tenon. A "through tenon", as the term implies, is taken right through the mating workpiece. It can be wedged or not. If it is wedged, then the ends of the wedges are visible. A "stop tenon" does not go all the way through; neither does the mortise. A "fox tenon" is a wedged stop tenon. The tenon is cut to the required depth, and slotted to accept wedges. The mortise is dug to the required depth, and is undercut slightly so as to accommodate the spreading  action of the wedges. On assembly, glue is applied, the wedges are inserted part way into the tenon, which is then inserted under clamping pressure. When the tenon is almost home, the wedges contact the bottom of the mortise, and additional clamping pressure causes the tenon to be spread apart by the wedges as it reaches its full depth. If cut properly, there is a worrisome resistance to the clamp, but finally there is a satisfying "snap" as the wedges seat and the tenon expands. Obviously, some care must be taken when cutting the joint and the wedges, but the result is extremely strong, and highly recommended when a through tenon is not appropriate.

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to read it and also to comment, I appreciate that. Second, I apologize for my belated response as on the 1st of April we moved house, such fools that we are, that created a long period without internet access and I am trying to play catch up on many fronts. [embarassed]
May I quote from the PDF "This method is often referred to as Fox Wedging, that is a method of wedging stopped mortise and tenon joints."
In the UK this terminology is often used to describe the method of wedging not the actual act of producing a "Fox Wedged Stopped Mortice And Tenon" I think this, rather like the earlier debate on "Muntins and Mullions" is down to differences in language and geography and how our common language but disparate experiences sometimes fails us when trying to get an idea or information across. Unfortunate and oft frustrating but I think I shall let my writing stand, as, it is an honest piece based on my training, experiences and practice.
Regards
Rob.

 

[jacko9]

Good reference Rob, thanks for posting.

 

[Locks14]

Very nice article, but I must suggest a clarification of the fox tenon. A "through tenon", as the term implies, is taken right through the mating workpiece. It can be wedged or not. If it is wedged, then the ends of the wedges are visible. A "stop tenon" does not go all the way through; neither does the mortise. A "fox tenon" is a wedged stop tenon. The tenon is cut to the required depth, and slotted to accept wedges. The mortise is dug to the required depth, and is undercut slightly so as to accommodate the spreading  action of the wedges. On assembly, glue is applied, the wedges are inserted part way into the tenon, which is then inserted under clamping pressure. When the tenon is almost home, the wedges contact the bottom of the mortise, and additional clamping pressure causes the tenon to be spread apart by the wedges as it reaches its full depth. If cut properly, there is a worrisome resistance to the clamp, but finally there is a satisfying "snap" as the wedges seat and the tenon expands. Obviously, some care must be taken when cutting the joint and the wedges, but the result is extremely strong, and highly recommended when a through tenon is not appropriate.

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to read it and also to comment, I appreciate that. Second, I apologize for my belated response as on the 1st of April we moved house, such fools that we are, that created a long period without internet access and I am trying to play catch up on many fronts. [embarassed]
May I quote from the PDF "This method is often referred to as Fox Wedging, that is a method of wedging stopped mortise and tenon joints."
In the UK this terminology is often used to describe the method of wedging not the actual act of producing a "Fox Wedged Stopped Mortice And Tenon" I think this, rather like the earlier debate on "Muntins and Mullions" is down to differences in language and geography and how our common language but disparate experiences sometimes fails us when trying to get an idea or information across. Unfortunate and oft frustrating but I think I shall let my writing stand, as, it is an honest piece based on my training, experiences and practice.
Regards
Rob.

I would concur with Rob-GB's notion of a fox wedged tenon.

What Nick C describes i.e. a stop tenon with wedges I believe is what some might refer to as a "suicide" tenon; as once inserted and clamped to engage the wedges, the expansion of the tenon through the wedges, locks the joint even without adhesive and is very difficult to disassemble if properly implemented.