Trex

[harry_]

I recently completed a Trex deck. All the decking, rail system, and skirt/fascia boards were Trex products.

Although the completed deck looks great, I hope to never do another again. It is my opinion that my Brother-in-law will eventually agree that the `actual value` of Trex is no where near it's `perceived value`. It seems to me that many have in their heads that Trex and Trex-like products are maintenance free. When in fact, they are at best `low maintenance`. Then there is the part where once the sun has shined on this deck for an hour, you CANNOT stand on it in your bare feet. I have NEVER felt a wood deck this hot!

I am of the opinion that I could have built a much better looking deck out of meranti or mahogany for less money than what this deck cost to do in Trex.....

Admittedly, I have very little experience with these product. I have used much of Azek trim boards, but in my opinion they are not even close to being the same. Those are my opinions (or rants if you prefer)...... nothing more.

To those of you with more experience with this stuff than I:
How do you deal with sawn edges that will end up being visable, as they end up being a different color... not all things can get a mitred return to hide that. I did find that PVC glue will bring a sanded cut to something very close to the face color if I apply it, let it stand for a minute then wipe it off. Still not optimal, but it did take most of the curse off of it.

How do you deal with mitred corners, as standard PVC glue does not work on this stuff? Do you just accept that the mitre will open up (a lot) once the day begins to cool? (I made it a point to install the mitres as the first cuts of the day to help minimize this, however in the end, I think I was just fooling myself.

And then there are the scratches. I am not talking about gouges, but just mere surface scratches....like from the dog. Anything to be done there?

I would love to hear everyone's experience with this stuff!

 

[Kevin D.]

Hey Harry, thanks for bringing this forward, as I'm on the verge of making a decking decision on what composite type product to go with.

Firstly, would love to see some picks of the issues you describe.  Also, which TREX product did you use (Accents, Origins, Brasilia...), and also did you use a specialized fastener such as the Tigerclaw hidden fastener?

 

[harry_]

brasilia.

I will see if the sun comes out long enough today for me to take a few pics.

If I would to build this very same deck for myself the only composites would be the rail system, an it would not be the system that was used.

It was all put together with hidden fasteners. The only visible fasteners decking screws for the skirts/fascia, stainless steel nails for the 'pickets' and a lag type fastener for the tops of the rail posts.!

It will all make sense once I get some picture up!

 

[harry_]

in this first 2 pictures I am showing my method for putting the mitres together.

I would use my biscuit joiner on one side, then run a stainless steel screw into it's mating face, leaving about 1/4 - 3/8 of an inch sticking out. This was for maintaining  vertical alignment only. Yes I had biscuits, but I had this idea in my head that they would swell and eventually give undesirable results over time. I also drove in a pair of SS screws to attach the edge of the plank down to the frame of the deck. Yes, one side essentially "floats" at the mitre.
[attachthumb=1]
[attachthumb=2]

In this picture you can see the completed mitres. They have been in place approximately 6 weeks. Again, I tried to install these boards first thing in the morning before it got too hot. That way all the movement would hopefully be towards the mitre instead of away. At 50F, I can just about slip a US quarter in the gab from the thermal contraction.

This picture was take at about 70F, but the deck had been baking in the sun for about 4 hours. The deck gets GREAT sun.
[attachthumb=3]

This one was take today at just over 80F, but it has been overcast all day thus far. Notice the bare feet. I could not bear to stand there in bare feet if the sun had been on it for 4+ hours. Even the dog does the hot foot dance!
[attachthumb=4]

In this picture you can see the difference in color between sawn & un-sawn. I had thought to mitre this corner, but given the piece to the right is not very wide I had concerns about stability. Add to that not knowing what I could use for glue etc...

You'll notice that the pickets tip out a little close to the corner. I had taken this picture before I put in the "latch" like as can be seen further to the left. all thes pickest are in section of approx. 6 feet to that we can have access for storage.
[attachthumb=5]

A full view of the deck.
[attachthumb=6]

And another. in this one you can see the "missing latch"
[attachthumb=7]

Rail sections
[attachthumb=8]
[attachthumb=9]

post top lag
[attachthumb=10]

one of the scratches I was referring to, It looks MUCH worse than what it really is texture wise. But this is the type of scratch I was referring to in my first post.
[attachthumb=11]

and I hope this post works,.... took me a freaking hour!

EDIT: a few typos

 

[Brice Burrell]

Harry thanks for sharing your experiences with Trex. I haven't it much myself because I don't particularly like either. I'm going to be doing a deck in the next few weeks that will some composite decking but I'm not sure which brand. I'm going to look closely at Azek and Timberteck decking.

 

[tbellemare]

Harry:

Was that scratch just from the dog?

Tom

 

[harry_]

it is my understanding that Timbertek is the  same as the HomeDepot in-house brand. I have used both TT & the HD and they sure do seem it.

You can pretty much bet that if you are to used grooved planks (for hidden fasteners) they will be special order no matter the brand unless you have REALLY good local suppliers. Something I do NOT have out here in the woods. If you are going to face fasten, I strongly encourage you to pre-drill no matter what screw you use. Takes a lot longer but it is a better result in the end. Some will argue the point, especially the screw manufacturers, but my personal experience says otherwise. All you need is to slip the drive bit one time and the plank is now junk. Not so bad if you only have one or two screws in. But I am sure you are familiar with Mr. Murphy & his law. Also deck screws are VERY hard to back out if not pre-drilled. just a heads up.

Also, I use my speed square which I have 'custom drilled' to use as a drilling template for doing decks. Basically it is a hole drilled @ approx. 1 inch, @approx 4 1/2 inch, and one at the near the tip of the square which should like up with a screw from the previous plank. I would send a pic, but my belt is at my other sisters, 2 hours away.... bathroom remod.

I have seen the Azek brand in place. Cant say that I am sold on it either. Azex trim boards are another story. Hate working it because of the "static cling" but I happily use it in place of PFJP when & where appropriate.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I hate to be brash but, Trex sucks.

If I do a composite deck I either use Correct Deck CX, Fiberon Horizon or Timber Tech.

These are encapsulated boards, this helps with the scratching, fading and stain resistance.

The above boards are not hardly a composite board either.

Composites consist of wood chips and plastic.

Azek Decking is 100% extruded pvc, no wood at all.

I always use a railing system, that way you have no exposed fasteners.

Stair treads you have 2 options, picture frame each tread (bunch on blockers and extra framing) or
Put a wide trim board over the sides so you dont see the cut ends.

Railing system from fiberon:

 

[harry_]

Harry:

Was that scratch just from the dog?

Tom,

I don't think that one in particular was. There is my 4.5 y.o. nephew in the house, leaving the world wide open for all manner of 'destructive' things. [eek] As an FYI, that `scratch`, cannot be felt with either my hands or my feet. I chose that scratch for the sake of the camera. There are probably a hundred smaller scratches of the same type. I would love for someone to tell me how to make them 'disappear'.

 

[nickao]

I had a deck company for 10 years and easily did more than 500 outdoor projects. Probably 450 of them decks.

All the composites suck and I will never ever use them on my own home.

Ipe, Massrunduba, Cumaru and a few more are all 50 year woods, outside, with nothing more than oil or a clear sealer or even nothing at all. Ipe is also called by marketers as Pau lope and Iron wood and is nearly as difficult to burn as concrete!

True Mahogany is WAY to soft as are Cedar and some Redwoods(although I love Redwood). Phillippine Mahogany which is not Mahogany at all is usable for a deck, still to soft for my liking. Philippine Mahogany

With some of the composites I have seen  ten year old decks look like crap and there is no way to make them look good( I know I had the call backs and complaints). Trex is garbage and the worst of the worst of composites. Anything new they come out with we will not know what they look like in 50 years. The woods I mentioned and many others are already proven and are sustainable.

I am a wood guy and that is that.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

They will get hot, even wood decks around here get hot.

Azek, trex, fiberon, TT, and so forth will move no matter what you do.

I have seen runs of azek shrink over 1/4" in the winter and then move back tight in the summer.

You can pocket screw your corners and leave a gap somewhere else for the expansion and contraction.

 

[harry_]

I hate to be brash but, Trex sucks.

If I do a composite deck I either use Correct Deck CX, Fiberon Horizon or Timber Tech.

These are encapsulated boards, this helps with the scratching, fading and stain resistance.

The above boards are not hardly a composite board either.

Composites consist of wood chips and plastic.

Azek Decking is 100% extruded pvc, no wood at all.

I always use a railing system, that way you have no exposed fasteners.

Stair treads you have 2 options, picture frame each tread (bunch on blockers and extra framing) or
Put a wide trim board over the sides so you dont see the cut ends.

Railing system from fiberon:

Darcy, this was a rail system. Sister wanted a continuous top rail and I was a little concerned about leaving the last 6 inches unfastened. And then you have to add for symmetry,... what is done at one post must be done at all posts or is don't quite look right. I thought about picture framing the treads. Yeah, thought about it, laughed about it, then PROMPTLY forgot about it!

Given the choice, I would never use composite or PVC decking EVER. In this economy, my option set is a bit more limited.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Sorry about the third post here but, most people spending that kind of money for a deck do not want a wood deck weather it is Ipe, Teak or any other SA hardwood.

People do not want to stain, seal or finish.

I provide a high quality job on the install and if they have an issue with the deck boards, it is then up to the manufacturer to take care of it.

I still think the Azek decking is the best out there right now.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I hate to be brash but, Trex sucks.

If I do a composite deck I either use Correct Deck CX, Fiberon Horizon or Timber Tech.

These are encapsulated boards, this helps with the scratching, fading and stain resistance.

The above boards are not hardly a composite board either.

Composites consist of wood chips and plastic.

Azek Decking is 100% extruded pvc, no wood at all.

I always use a railing system, that way you have no exposed fasteners.

Stair treads you have 2 options, picture frame each tread (bunch on blockers and extra framing) or
Put a wide trim board over the sides so you dont see the cut ends.

Railing system from fiberon:

Darcy, this was a rail system. Sister wanted a continuous top rail and I was a little concerned about leaving the last 6 inches unfastened. And then you have to add for symmetry,... what is done at one post must be done at all posts or is don't quite look right. I thought about picture framing the treads. Yeah, thought about it, laughed about it, then PROMPTLY forgot about it!

Given the choice, I would never use composite or PVC decking EVER. In this economy, my option set is a bit more limited.

Was that the builders rail system?

Personally I like sticking with the 6' or 8' sections so I can use the hidden fastener system.

I think a PT deck looks worse after a few years then a plastic deck after a few years.

 

[Brice Burrell]

...I still think the Azek decking is the best out there right now.

That's what our Azek rep is telling us but I wasn't going to take his word on it. [tongue]

 

[harry_]

They will get hot, even wood decks around here get hot.

Azek, trex, fiberon, TT, and so forth will move no matter what you do.

I have seen runs of azek shrink over 1/4" in the winter and then move back tight in the summer.

You can pocket screw your corners and leave a gap somewhere else for the expansion and contraction.

Decks get hot around here too, but this is like asphalt in August hot. Unusable hot! the good thing is that it cools what I thought was surprisingly fast. My experience is that wood decks become equally as low maintenance as composites after about 5 years, but look better. 5 years of PVC or composite looks like trash.

People are just stuck on this "maintenance free" concept which was never advertised. PVC & composites have all been advertised as "low maintenance". Low maintenance with wood comes over a little time. People also have this idea in thier head that the plastic crap is lower cost than wood,... usually not. They are right on par with one another.

 

[harry_]

I hate to be brash but, Trex sucks.

If I do a composite deck I either use Correct Deck CX, Fiberon Horizon or Timber Tech.

These are encapsulated boards, this helps with the scratching, fading and stain resistance.

The above boards are not hardly a composite board either.

Composites consist of wood chips and plastic.

Azek Decking is 100% extruded pvc, no wood at all.

I always use a railing system, that way you have no exposed fasteners.

Stair treads you have 2 options, picture frame each tread (bunch on blockers and extra framing) or
Put a wide trim board over the sides so you dont see the cut ends.

Railing system from fiberon:

Darcy, this was a rail system. Sister wanted a continuous top rail and I was a little concerned about leaving the last 6 inches unfastened. And then you have to add for symmetry,... what is done at one post must be done at all posts or is don't quite look right. I thought about picture framing the treads. Yeah, thought about it, laughed about it, then PROMPTLY forgot about it!

Given the choice, I would never use composite or PVC decking EVER. In this economy, my option set is a bit more limited.

Was that the builders rail system?

Personally I like sticking with the 6' or 8' sections so I can use the hidden fastener system.

I think a PT deck looks worse after a few years then a plastic deck after a few years.

No, it is Trex, with a Trex decking board (of a different color than the deck, running across the top, coast to coast.

Damn magazines  [scared]

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

A lot of the reasons people want the plastic decking is because of cracking, splitting and splinters associated with wood.

There is not much you can do beyond what you did Harry, I think the deck looks good.

One just needs to get use to the fact that these kinds of materials do expand and contract quite a bit.

EDIT: I forgot to say that it will soon have many more scratches on it and you won't be able to notice that first one anymore. [big grin]

 

[harry_]

A lot of the reasons people want the plastic decking is because of cracking, splitting and splinters associated with wood.

There is not much you can do beyond what you did Harry, I think the deck looks good.

One just needs to get use to the fact that these kinds of materials do expand and contract quite a bit.

Thanks Darcy, I appreciate that.

The only time I have seen issues with cracking, splitting and splinters associated with wood are on pressure treated plank decking. Even in this economy I flatly refuse those jobs. Period.

My work has the limited tendency to sell more of the same work. That is the last thing that I want more of!

 

[peter halle]

Harry,

That deck looks great.  As others have said, the stuff will move.

If you have a scrap of the decking, scratch it and then use a metal brush parallel with the "grain".  I have seen that recommended by at least one other manufacturer.

I just finished my first Azek deck.  I liked it.  The one nice thing about their material is that it is less absorbent than many others and would be harder to spill something on and stain.  If I had to do miters, I would design for it and either pocket screw the miters together.  

I used the Kreg system and will post separately about that adventure.   [sad]

Peter