Triton going under?

That somewhat surprises me, given the growing positive reputation and acceptance of Triton routers in USA.  Marc Sommerfeld promotes Triton routers on his site and through his catalogue and Woodworking Show demonstrations.  He moved from Hitachi to Triton when Hitachi stopped making their venerable big router.  I wonder what Marc will choose as a replacement.

Dave R.
 
Its the GMC stuff that has brought down the company. I believe they  bought Triton. If you have  ever used a GMC tool you would know some of them are not very good, at least the ones available here. I guess in Aussie land they have some good tools available. I think the GMC got to big at the wrong time. Anyway, I am sure another company will buy the Triton brand and it will continue.
 
Nick,
GMC tools in Australia are crap too. They had them ranged in a large hardware chain (Australia's biggest actually) and the chain decided to kick them out and go with Ryobi ??? - Some upgrade !!
Anyway, the GMC company was placed in receivership by their bankers and the receiver is currently trying to sell the company. Haven't heard how that is going yet.
 
Yeah I never thought much of the GMC tools here. I know  the main store that carried GMC was excluded because this Ryobi thing is an exclusive contract. 

I thought maybe GMC might have had better tools in Australia only because some Aussies on other sites are clambering to buy GMC using nationalism as the reason. National pride or not the GMC tools are not going to sell at that low quality and probably deserve to go down. National pride is great(I buy American if I can) but buying inferior products just because of that is not a good choice.

The Triton division could easily be sold off though.
 
You know the bail outs are a sore subject with me.

If I went under because I was bad at business I deserve it. Just because some companies have 3 million employees does not give them the right to government help because they made poor business decisions. Hey I want help, why not  float my business even 25,000.00? It is actually the bigger banks and companies  that caused me and other small businesses to get hurt, but they are getting helped and small business is not?

I think forget about the car companies and bail out the small businessman. There are more than 3 million of us too! And most of us did not make poor decisions and are only losing business because of factors beyond our control. I firmly believe the banks and car companies had it within their control to adjust to get through this turmoil without any help or not create the turmoil in the first place..

It is the small businesses and single inventor that drive the economy, not these huge companies and that is common knowledge(Google it I am not getting into that). Its just  seems worse when 3 million people get hurt all from the same place, but no one is mentioning the 2 million separate small business that are struggling. My point is if the government is  going to help why not help all the small businesses, its the same amount of people getting helped, the same amount of money and we are not rewarding horrible business decisions and straight out dishonesty!

I can not believe 1.5 billion dollars was dished out to only 300-500 executives from the bail out money already! That is all of our money and that is NOT what I thought it would go for! Darn it that 1.5 billion should of helped 5,000, even 10,000 small businesses, not a few hundred people!

Merry Christmas - Rant over!
 
I know it's all terribly complicated (or is it?  ;)) ----- but something that stuck with me was said by Newt Gingrich --- paraphrasing, he said something like:  "Not only is the government meddling in free market affairs, but backing the losers"  ------ complicated as all of this is, that simple implication rings loudly.

Justin
 
nickao said:
I guess in Aussie land they have some good tools available. I think the GMC got to big at the wrong time.

they're good in their ubiquity (word?). Nothing beats right now use for price, a lot of Aussie tradies care about getting through the job and not so much about longevity. You'd be hard pressed to find the average guy that would buy a bosch demo hammer over a GMC or Ozito, the reasoning being "I'm going to kill it anyway, no use in wasting money".
 
Sorry to have touched a nerve with my bailout comment, but no offense was intended. I was just commenting on the fact that the bailout seems to be the democrats answer to every problem.  Banks have simply become organized crime with a flag on the wall and I worked for GM for 12 years back from 83 to 95 and saw the writing on the wall and left.  Heck GM was within a few weeks of being bankrupt in 90 or 91...but few outsiders new it.

I think what the dems are really trying to do is take a stake in the auto industry and ultimately turn the companies over to the employees...uaw in this case.

Right now we are busy bankrupting the arabs and russians with low oil prices and I think we might see $20 a barrel oil and $1 a gallon gasoline before it is over...

Then in a few months it will be the time to declare the US bankrupt because of these bailouts and we can have the socialist country the government folks have been seeking...

Oh and Festool prices will be going up too....

Best,
Todd
 
nickao said:
You know the bail outs are a sore subject with me.

If I went under because I was bad at business I deserve it. Just because some companies have 3 million employees does not give them the right to government help because they made poor business decisions. Hey I want help, why not  float my business even 25,000.00? It is actually the bigger banks and companies  that caused me and other small businesses to get hurt, but they are getting helped and small business is not?

I think forget about the car companies and bail out the small businessman. There are more than 3 million of us too! And most of us did not make poor decisions and are only losing business because of factors beyond our control. I firmly believe the banks and car companies had it within their control to adjust to get through this turmoil without any help or not create the turmoil in the first place..

It is the small businesses and single inventor that drive the economy, not these huge companies and that is common knowledge(Google it I am not getting into that). Its just  seems worse when 3 million people get hurt all from the same place, but no one is mentioning the 2 million separate small business that are struggling. My point is if the government is  going to help why not help all the small businesses, its the same amount of people getting helped, the same amount of money and we are not rewarding horrible business decisions and straight out dishonesty!

I can not believe 1.5 billion dollars was dished out to only 300-500 executives from the bail out money already! That is all of our money and that is NOT what I thought it would go for! Darn it that 1.5 billion should of helped 5,000, even 10,000 small businesses, not a few hundred people!

Merry Christmas - Rant over!

Good rant, Nick.  Allow me to chime in and add mine.  The simple answer is that government is not the answer.  The best those in Washington, DC can do, but won't is lower taxes for all, help (as with foreign trade issues) or get out of the way of people who are trying to help themselves other than by sucking money out of the accounts of others.  But they won't.  The big, squeeking lobby wheels will always get their $$$ grease.  A little personal integrity, responsibility and statesmanship in Washington would go a long way to help, too.  If that existed, the sub-prime mortgage problems would never have been as large as they are, and the Wall Street firms who falsely rated those packaged loans would be singing in our courts or jails, and Wall Street and other firms that created and pumped up the phony pyramids of CDOs and DCSs would have been reigned in much earlier.  And even now, Congress and others in Washington propose to have the same foxes watch the henhouses that are being refilled with our money.

Dave R.
 
One of the scary things to me is that $750billion waas authorized to bail out a select few and once delivered congress feels they can dole it out bit by bit t whom they think should have it....and no plan to speek of. Reagan's statement really is getting louder and louder: ", government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." Never truer. I hope Pres. Obama can do something correctly, but I dont see how with an all dem congress. Scary times are here again. And we think Bushes war is expensive. The only good part is that we wont have to work so hard at completing our tax returns. ALL of it will go to the IRS.
 
John,

This is perhaps the only time I wish you were wrong.  But I'm afraid that I wholly agree with you. 

People in USA keep forgetting that Government doesn't make anything.  The best that Government can do is identify what needs to be done and help those who can actually do it to get the money (and technology if needed) to do it.  Government usually adds additional costly layers, and of late extremely so.  Of recent, they have shown themselves to be not even efficient or competent at Government.

Dave R.
 
This thread proves once again why woodworkers are just much smarter than most.  :D 

There just seems to be a lot more common sense with people in this industry/hobby. 
The bailouts (which have FAR exceeded 750 billion by the way) were just one more proof to me that a third party is needed more than ever.  Government has become the biggest business of all.  They employ more people than every major world corporation, COMBINED!  They have to make more "business" for themselves, so creating an economic situation which "requires" them to step in and "save" everyone just gives them more power and control.  At some point, we need to stand up and say "NO."  Unfortunately, I don't think that happened in the last election.
I guess I ought to go buy my "Don't blame me, I voted for Bob Barr" bumper sticker. . .
:)
 
While you guys are on the bailout topic, please answer this for me as I can't for the life of me understand what is going on.

GM was tackled for tax evasion a number of times. They then moved most manufacturing offshore and divested themselves of American labour and pay super salaries to corporate management. Now they are going down the gurgler the Gubbermint is bending over backwards to help.

On the other hand you have Toyota who is actually going well, has built large manufacturing plants in the USA and yet is getting no assistance.

When did the USA decide to punish the efficient and support the inefficient? It seems to go completely against what capitalism was all about.  ???
 
Groggy said:
When did the USA decide to punish the efficient and support the inefficient? It seems to go completely against what capitalism was all about.  ???

Right about the same time that Americans began voting for trial attorneys to represent them. ::)
 
I would saw that GM and Toyota and many other businesses have received large governmental assistance in terms of grants or tax abbatements to have them put or keep a plant in a certain location.  I worked at GM when they launched Saturn and I remember there was massive competition between states to get that first Saturn plant which ended up in Tenn, no doubt where the GM execs had already bought up all the land for next to nothing.

Ohio doled out hundreds of millions to keep the Lordstown Assembly plant just a few years ago.  IIRC the state gave $500 million toward a new state-of-the-art paint shop alone...  Bottom line is no company pays taxes, they are all passed on to the customers to pay.  The biggest problem that GM has and has had is the legacy worker costs of pensions and healthcare for former workers and there survivors.  Shed those costs and some overcapacity in the face of declining market share and they would be fairly even with Toyota, Honda and the other transplants...

Best,
Todd
 
The "bailouts"  will be a huge drain on the US for decades to come.  I am hugely disappointed in both the current and incoming administrations.  

The jails should be full of the Wall Street types that packaged the "sub-prime" mortgages as AAA investments.  

Much of the discussion has been around the auto industry, and below are my comments on this sector of our economy.

I live in Tennessee, and Nissan has a huge presence here, as well as the main Saturn (GM) plant.  I don't claim to have all of the answers, but I do think that there are a lot of reasons for the problems of the auto industry.  

#1 - Unions.  Regardless of whose numbers you use, UAW workers earn more than their piers in domestic non-union plants.  The blame for this lies squarely on the shoulders of the management of the "Big Three".  They should have understood the implications of this in the late 80s and early 90s, when the Japanese manufacturers were starting to built plants here.  My biggest problem with the UAW is that they seem to be more than willing to sell out their retirees.  They have made promises to these people, and that should be honored.  

#2 - Product Design - The European and Asian manufacturers have been much more effective in product design than the "Big Three"  I love the aesthetics of the current Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger, but would never spend my money on either.  The domestic manufacturers were far too accepting of regulations regarding fuel efficiency.  The  American auto industry is based on the truck, SUV, and "Muscle Car" market, and has been for years.  Why would they accept the average MPG requirements that have been increasing for years?  There are also numerous poor management decisions involved.  Ford owns Cummins, probably the best diesel engine manufacturers in the world, and has for years.  Why would they continue to put the clearly inferior Navstar engines in their trucks?

#3 - Basic Common Sense - All of us know that we can't live on more than we make.  GM and Chrysler especially, but the "Big Three" in general, have played the credit game way too long.  The service on their debts is the real issue.  Two of the three have debt obligations that are unsustainable.  I still do not understand the need for credit for a publicly traded company.  If you have a solid expansion plan, you can issue additional stock to raise the needed funds.  Yes, it dilutes the existing shareholders value, but it is a good bet if the business plan is sound.  

It is my opinion that we should not be bailing out anyone.  Look at the result of the AIG bailout as the perfect example.  What do we get, not better run companies, but corporate junkits that cost us all.  

The orphan that we now call an "economic crisis" has no father.  But, there are countless parties responsible.   People that signed mortgages for more than they could pay, banks that where willing to lend that money.  Car companies that got into the mortgage business, etc

My wife and i have kept our lifestyle below our means.  Why should we be cast as the villain for being responsible.  By most modern measures, we should like in an $800k house, have two car payments, and $50K in credit card debt.  Instead, we live in a modest home, have no vehicle or card debt to speak of.  The result of our responsible lifestyle, is a promise of higher taxes.  Only in America. 

 
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