TS 55R (Updated TS55)

[AlexThePalex]

if I was in the engineering department I'd be embarrassed to call it any more than a running upgrade.

Sure seems like a 2.3 to a 2.4 upgrade instead of delivering the 3.0.

This is a rather critical moment for Festool, regarding the track saw market. Their patent just expired, so now their dominant position in the track saw market is at stake. Previously, when you needed a track saw, Festool was the only option. But now, on one side of the spectre, many people for who cost is important will buy cheaper saws like a DeWalt or a Makita, and people on the other side of the spectre will get the Mafell because they are only satisfied with the best. Festool should not stand by idly because then they will loose a very important part of their market share.   

 

[andvari]

The marketing department will be thrilled! Though I bet it was the marketing department that wanted to "launch the R" - if I was in the engineering department I'd be embarrassed to call it any more than a running upgrade.

Unfortunately the engineering department rarely has any say in these matters.

 

[GhostFist]

The only way for me to get MAfell products is to mail order them through the canadian distributer in Alberta, halfway across the country (Canada is a big country). Their online store in NA leaves a lot of questions for me. for instance price differences between us and canada. I'm unable to find anything out about warranty as well. If there is a satisfactory warranty/service arrangement and i can purchase the product/products without inflating the sticker price an insane amount I would be buying the Maffel saw and perhaps a few other items I've been eyeballing for a loooong while.

 

[Stone Message]

From what some of the contributers to this thread have been saying it appears that they have seen more than an advertising flyer. Has anyone actually handled the saw? Have anyone seen the specs from Festool? How about a test...Which of you can post the first picture - not one lifted from that flyer!

Peter

 

[andy5405]

Can anyone tell me what the Mafell MT55 will do that is apparently so lacking in the new TS55R and what those features will equate to in pounds or dollars in your pocket? I don't thank that the TS55 is the best track saw out there but it is still the one I would buy again.  This is why:

Plug-it system - invaluable to me and a must to be compatible with all my others tools. Plus Festool parts to convert other tools to plug -it, my Multimaster and Bosch orbital sander are converted. It's too easy to underestimate the tangible value of Festool's system approach

Free theft insurance for 3 years with only a £100 excess on any tool. That's a lot of peace of mind.

Those two features are enough for me to not even consider any other saw on the market. A saw would have to be seriously funky before I even considered anything else.

Also I think Festool need to be given more credit in this thread. They have created an almost fanatical brand loyalty and that doesn't happen because they employ stupid people in key positions who get key decisions wrong. We are collectively as regular users of this forum probably the biggest nitpickers and wingers in the tool world. We expect perfection from Festool and I'm as guilty as any. The real sea change is owning any tracksaw, to me the difference between two saws is more down to the blade than anything else. I reckon that if you put a decent blade in the cheapest tracksaw in the market (Woodstar Diva) a good chippie would see no difference in the quality or output of the overwhelming majority of their work and still be almost dust free. It makes the difference between a Festool and Mafell almost insignificant. That's when you have to look at service, warranties, and of course the famous system approach to differentiate between brands.

   

 

[ajones]

From what some of the contributers to this thread have been saying it appears that they have seen more than an advertising flyer. Has anyone actually handled the saw? Have anyone seen the specs from Festool? How about a test...Which of you can post the first picture - not one lifted from that flyer!

Peter

Indeed.. can anyone talk from the experience of actually holding the machine? Till today most people favored Festool and maybe this will stay that way once we all hold the saw. So maybe this new Festool doesn't seem so nice according to the people above who have not seen it yet but maybe it will be great. I just know that i have always worked with Festool with great pleasure and they stole my heart over the years; [tongue]

Let's wait for this. And @andy5405, i agree totally on the services, this is magic.

There will always be good healthy discussion but the proof will be in the pudding and for that we have to wait a few weeks..

Welcome to the fog

 

[Kev]

Can anyone tell me what the Mafell MT55 will do that is apparently so lacking in the new TS55R and what those features will equate to in pounds or dollars in your pocket? I don't thank that the TS55 is the best track saw out there but it is still the one I would buy again.  This is why:

Plug-it system - invaluable to me and a must to be compatible with all my others tools. Plus Festool parts to convert other tools to plug -it, my Multimaster and Bosch orbital sander are converted. It's too easy to underestimate the tangible value of Festool's system approach

Free theft insurance for 3 years with only a £100 excess on any tool. That's a lot of peace of mind.

Those two features are enough for me to not even consider any other saw on the market. A saw would have to be seriously funky before I even considered anything else.

Also I think Festool need to be given more credit in this thread. They have created an almost fanatical brand loyalty and that doesn't happen because they employ stupid people in key positions who get key decisions wrong. We are collectively as regular users of this forum probably the biggest nitpickers and wingers in the tool world. We expect perfection from Festool and I'm as guilty as any. The real sea change is owning any tracksaw, to me the difference between two saws is more down to the blade than anything else. I reckon that if you put a decent blade in the cheapest tracksaw in the market (Woodstar Diva) a good chippie would see no difference in the quality or output of the overwhelming majority of their work and still be almost dust free. It makes the difference between a Festool and Mafell almost insignificant. That's when you have to look at service, warranties, and of course the famous system approach to differentiate between brands.

   

I think you're not recognizing what is very healthy criticism. The virtues of anything green are well known to most (though you must realize the theft replacement is limited to a minor market space).

I do expect something close to perfection from Festool - this is because I know they're capable of it and it is the responsibility of bodies such as this forum to keep them on their toes. The mere fact that several here have been able to justify moving to Maffell tells me the Festool track saws have room for improvement (look at the people in this thread that have gone Maffell - they may have strong opinions, but I don't believe any of us would consider them silly).

The TS55 has been out for a reasonable time and there is mounting competition from brands across the price spectrum. A new model SHOULD deliver on features ... particularly from Festool (you wouldn't expect BMW to be playing catchup with KIA).

If the time comes and I know there is a potentially a better product on the market than Festool's offering, I'd look at the total cost benefit situation and make my decision. If someone made a better tenon joiner than Domino - you'd have to consider it.

Festool's service, support, warranty and reputation are a large part of the value proposition and I don't believe anyone here is disputing that !

 

[Stone Message]

So you don't like it then John  [poke]

I too have seen the PDF & I'm afraid John is right, just a face lift.  I can't comment on the Mafell but it certainally gets good write ups.  I think if I was looking for a new track saw then I would have to check it out !

Don't forget the good service that you have received from TTS - they repaired your out of warranty OF 1400 free (you told us this on the OF 2200 Review thread) and they must have known when it had been registered. So Festool (TTS) get full marks from me on that score. From what I have read here the Mafell people have light years to catch up on customer support.

Peter

 

[woodguy7]

Peter, you are absolutely right, I did receive fantastic service from TTS.  But all the same, it would be silly not to have a look at least.  After all, all those years ago buying all Makita, if I never "had a look" at the TS55 then I wouldn't have the top notch collection of power tools that I have today.

It would take a lot to wean me off Festool now  ;D

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Woodguy

I sold all of my big machinery just over a year ago and started my new life with Festool. I just wish that I had turned to Festool sooner. I have drawers and boxes full of accessories for all sorts of tools - none of it works with anything other than the tool it came with - I have CMT, Dewalt, Stanley (now a collector's piece) and so many more and it is all junk compared to the interchangeable bits and pieces I am accruing for my Festool tools.

I am saving up to get a CMS setup for a saw and a router - then I will get rid of the table saw.

Peter

 

[andy5405]

I've been building a webiste on an off for the last couple of months that is intended to be a definitive guide to every tracksaw and relevant accessories available in the UK market. Every time I ring a tool supplier to get a quote, info or order something I always end up picking their brains on track/plunge saws and their opinions. I have spoken to at least 4 dealers in the last two months alone who had decided to stock Mafell and ended up binning them as they weren't up to scratch from a service aspect. That must speak volumes and the somewhat anecdotal evidence that I have gained is that users faced between a choice of TS55 vs MT55 almost always go for the Festool. They all tell me that the average chippie, joiner, builder or hobbyist don't analyse tools to the nth degree in the way that FOG users do and the minor differences count for very little as most still go for the TS. They are both saws that cut a straight line extremely well, that's it. The differentiator is system and service for me.

The other thing that amuses me in this debate is that the MT55 has no riving knife. Can you imagine the furore it would cause if Festool omitted it in the new model and yet people choose to completely overlook this when waxing lyrical about the Mafell. The grass isn't always greener, it just looks that way. I'm big on safety features, I've seen too many chippies with missing fingers.

 

[windmill man]

The discussion of the riving knife has already been had and sorted [smile] The Mafell is actually designed to work with out one, yep its hard to believe but true [unsure]. The lack of the riving knife put me off the MT. After the responce from mafell I am undecided , let me put it that way.

Before anyone else assumes i am a Festool basher, i would like to point out, I have a larger than most , collection of Festools and i do appreciate them. The TS 55 is getting long in the tooth and rumours of a new replacement have been flying about for a few years now. I really do hope that in some lab in festool HQ, that there is a brand new replacement for the TS, that will give all the features that we want and will put festool back on the top. Unfortunately the TSSR is not that item.

My TS55 is a good few years old now and has cut probably thousands of miles, it is starting to show its age , I hope that the full blown TS replacement is released before mine dies or it will have to be a MT as replacement and if i am honest I dont want to do that .

Stone Message  I would think long and hard before you get the CMS . There are a lot better products out there  than the CMS

John

 

[andy5405]

My TS55 is a good few years old now and has cut probably thousands of miles, it is starting to show its age , I hope that the full blown TS replacement is released before mine dies or it will have to be a MT as replacement and if i am honest I dont want to do that .

You did say thousands (plural) so I can assume a minimum of 2000 miles which means that your TS has cut at least 2.64 million sheets of 8x4 in half the short way and is still going strong. You want to replace it with a Mafell?  [wink]

Wasn't it in Cool Hand Luke where the guy said there's some men you just can't reach? Only jesting!

 

[neth27]

I done a lot of cuts with the TS55, but sold it for a far better saw... The Mafell  [big grin] [big grin]

John...

 

[windmill man]

Put like that , its a tall order to meet [big grin].

It does however get worked hard 5/6 days a week and i think its well over 5 years old now.
Never let me down , I am on the 3rd base plate and think about 4th maybe 5th lot of carbon brushes.  [smile]

 

[Vindingo]

Put like that , its a tall order to meet [big grin].

It does however get worked hard 5/6 days a week and i think its well over 5 years old now.
Never let me down , I am on the 3rd base plate and think about 4th maybe 5th lot of carbon brushes.  [smile]

What wears out on the base plate? 

 

[andy5405]

Put like that , its a tall order to meet [big grin].

It does however get worked hard 5/6 days a week and i think its well over 5 years old now.
Never let me down , I am on the 3rd base plate and think about 4th maybe 5th lot of carbon brushes.  [smile]

I think we should start calling you Trigger! Wait till the end for the relevant bit!

Only Fools and Horses: The Truth Behind Trigger's Broom...

 

[windmill man]

On the old style plate it it used to wear the little aluminium tab opposte the gibs ( to the point you could not get any more adjustment out of the gib cam ) on the new plate there is a replacable plastic pad. I assume the rails are harder than the saw base as i have not yet managed to wear out a rail. But to answer the Q what wears it out lots and lots of running the saw up and down rails.  [smile]

 

[jmbfestool]

Put like that , its a tall order to meet [big grin].

It does however get worked hard 5/6 days a week and i think its well over 5 years old now.
Never let me down , I am on the 3rd base plate and think about 4th maybe 5th lot of carbon brushes.  [smile]

What wears out on the base plate? 

Well mine only has worn out on them adjustable rail  things where you tighten it up to suite the rail mine is fully turned and is still loose! So today I called my dealer up to be told I might have to buy a new BASE because festool have stopped making parts for the older TS55 base!   I wasnt best pleased!  I got a call back saying mine was fine  cus is a 2008 model and doesnt need to be replaced apparently its models from 2007 and below will have to have their bases replaced if them parts wear out!  

I have noticed on my base also grooves are forming underneath where the base runs along the green track on the rail!  I assume thats the bit what must wear out and could alter the cut on your TS!?!?!

 

[andy5405]

I done a lot of cuts with the TS55, but sold it for a far better saw... The Mafell  [big grin] [big grin]

John...

I'm all ears particularly as the guy I work with will be buying a plunge saw in the next month or two and I want to give him the best possible advice. If the Mafell is better I will advise him accordingly but I'd like someone to answer the question I posed earlier:

"Can anyone tell me what the Mafell MT55 will do that is apparently so lacking in the new TS55R and what those features will equate to in pounds or dollars in your pocket?"

He will take my advice but the above question will be very high on his list of priorities when making a choice. We both love our tools and are happy to spend on decent gear. Both saws will provide excellent results but will the Mafell earn him more money. He just had his second child on Monday and has two mouths to feed and it matters.