TS - 75 Saw Marks

[thetoolsmith]

Hello,

I just purchased a TS 75 and spent the early morning reading the manual and adjusting the saw to fit tightly on the guide rail.  I've enclosed images of what I would consider not acceptable saw marks left after the first several cuts I made on an 1 1/2" thick maple table top.

Any suggestions for things I can check or is this "normal".

Thanks,
-Paul

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[Tom the Remodeler]

Helpful information for troubleshooting this would be:
-- Which blade you're using
-- Condition of blade (since the saw is brand new I assume the blade is as well)
-- Feed rate
-- Expectation of what the cut should be

 

[thetoolsmith]

Thanks for the response Tom,

Here's a little more info:

The blade is new: (HW 210x2,4 x 30 Z36 W)

Not sure how to specify the feed rate, the saw seemed to cut smoothly with very little load, although the noise was of some concern.  The sound of the motor seemed to change from a "smooth" sound (if that makes sense) to a more "rattled" sound, switching back and forth between the two.

My expectations were high, hoping for a nearly "jointable" edge. Unfortunately the images don't really show the entire issue, the saw marks can be felt when running your hands over them. At this point I'll need to run them through my jointer to clean them up.

Thanks,
-Paul

 

[Svar]

Those saw marks seem excessive. Was blade factory installed? Perhaps reinstall it. Make sure the blade is parallel to the track, some recommend slightly skewed inward.
Supplemental manual for TS55 (same procedure for TS75):https://service.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/Festool-TS55REQ-Supplemental-Manual.pdf
Page 22.

 

[chrisrosenb]

Looks to me like the feed rate was to fast.

 

[thetoolsmith]

More info:

I just checked to see if the blade was square to the bottom of the saw (with an Incra square) and noticed it was out every so slightly, maybe a few thousandths. I decided to untighten the two angle adjustment knobs to see if it was sitting securely on the two screws...one of the knobs wasn't tight at all and I could move the bed of the saw with minimal pressure. I've tighten them properly and will make a few more test cuts tonight and see if that was causing my issue.

Thanks,
-Paul

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

Looks like you might be a little slow cutting, or the speed is set too low.

 

[Michael Kellough]

More info:

I just checked to see if the blade was square to the bottom of the saw (with an Incra square) and noticed it was out every so slightly, maybe a few thousandths. I decided to untighten the two angle adjustment knobs to see if it was sitting securely on the two screws...one of the knobs wasn't tight at all and I could move the bed of the saw with minimal pressure. I've tighten them properly and will make a few more test cuts tonight and see if that was causing my issue.

Thanks,
-Paul

That will improve the saw marks but the source of your noise concern could be another reason there are marks.

The noise is normal (but that doesn’t mean it’s peachy keen). It’s the sound of the gears knashing when the speed control cuts off power intermittently to keep the speed of the arbor constant. I think the vibration produced by the gear knashing travels throughout the blade and results in extra marks on the wood.

The way to keep the gears from knashing is to push forward harder so the speed control continues to deliver power to the motor. If you aren’t comfortable going that fast then reduce the speed control setting.

Ideally there would be a bypass setting so we could let the blade spin at full speed and then feed at the rate we choose. As it is if you want a high rpm per inch traveled ratio you have to accept the vibration produced by the speed control.

 

[Alanbach]

Although Festool recommends their 36 tooth Universal saw blade for glue ready rips if I were going to cut 1.5” maple I would get a Panther 16 tooth blade.

 

[RKA]

That may cure the saw marks.  If the marks were going one way, I would have suggested the blade is toed out where the back of the blade is touching the wood after you’ve already made the cut.  But you’ve got marks going both ways so somehow that blade is wobbling around or the teeth are damaged.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

Are you clamping the rail to the wood? Not necessary in many cases but looks like maybe your rail is wider than the hardwood? If so clamp it. Plus as mentioned above a ripping blade is in order too - someone here suggested the following blade (Amazon):

A.G.E. MD210-160 for Track Saw Machines, 210mm Dia x 16T ATB, 28 Deg, 30mm Bore, Carbide Tipped Ripping Circular Saw Blade

Works great ans about 1/2 the price of the Panther.

 

[Cheese]

Does this look familiar?

Aromatic cedar cut with a TSC and a standard Festool blade.

[attachimg=1]

The same aromatic cedar cut with a HKC and a Panther blade.    TSC on top, HKC on bottom.

[attachimg=2]

 

[ear3]

Agreed that ripping maple that thick almost certainly demands a lower tooth saw blade.  18 tooth blade might be the best compromise solution, as the Panther blade sometimes delivers an edge that is a bit rough for glue joint, and, being a thicker blade, it cuts more off the splinter guard.

Although Festool recommends their 36 tooth Universal saw blade for glue ready rips if I were going to cut 1.5” maple I would get a Panther 16 tooth blade.

 

[BMG]

This is not normal! I have TS75 installed in CMS - TS module and I'm loosing my faith that Festool saw product will ever work as supposed. I spent so much time looking for information, reading manuals, watching videos, but still i cannot get cuts that can be joined back without gaps or swirls etc. It looks like you need university degree on working with festool to get their tools right. so disappointing.
From time to time i can get butter smooth cuts and wood surface look amazing, so saw/blade is capable of delivering good results, but how to make nice cuts consistent? IMO it requires too much skill unless you use those overpriced tools for cutting construction lumber  [crying]

 

[sancho57]

I use mine in the CMS.

Have some tooth marks.

No biggie just run it though my jointer.

If yer on site you could also use yer 850 planer.

Ya'll have to remember the TS in the CMS is NOT a cabinet saw.

Its made for portability.

If you want a portable saw that will give you the results of a cabinet saw then look at the Mafele Erica 85. If ya got about $4K burning a hole in yer pocket.

 

[BMG]

I will try to document with pictures what i have done and what result i get.

Meanwhile Festool claims on their official websitehttps://www.festool.com/products/sawing/circular-saws/561184---ts-75-ebq#Functions

just few citations from that page:

Accurate to the millimetre and without splinters
Achieve ideal results more quickly
For high-quality working results

No offence, but I'm again not buying that is just portable saw and we should expect only mediocre results. Festool officially claims the opposite ...

I believe that Festool blades are very good and capable of those "high-quality working results", but somehow it is very hard to get this saw make quality cuts as advertised without laboratory conditions and calibration.

 

[Birdhunter]

The OP’s description of the saw sounding like it was switching off and on would be consistent with the blade marks. If the saw is abruptly accelerating and decelerating, there will be some degree of torquing of the blade and subsequent scoring of the wood. This torquing would be exacerbated with very hard wood and, probably, beyond the ability of the rail to resist completely.

I’d return the saw and exercise the Festool return policy. I’d ask the dealer to replace the saw with a new unit and try it before giving up.

 

[thetoolsmith]

I've made all the adjustments other users have recommended including FESTool support after contacting them.  The saw marks continue so I'm sending it in for service and I'll see where it goes from here. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for all the support,
-Paul

 

[sancho57]

[member=72436]BMG[/member]

You do realise that was the TS 75 use on rails and not with the CMS right?

Here is a video about mounting the TS 75 in the CMS hints on adj the fence its over 14 min long with commercial breaks

 

[Gregor]

Here is a video about mounting the TS 75 in the CMS hints on adj the fence its over 14 min long with commercial breaks

That's a CMS-TS 55 and with Firefox + ublock Origin completely devoid of commercials.

Back on topic: I know such marks when the blade isn't aligned correctly with and/or (with or without the saw) is able to tilt/rock on the rail.

I vaguely remember the arbor nut on the TS 75 being spring loaded, not tightening it completely would likely lead to the blade wobbling, which would explain reduced cut quality...