TS55 Chipping in Melamine

[phmade]

Hello everyone.  I've been a Festool user for about a year now and I run a small shop with nearly all Festool tools.  I process a lot of sheet goods and I love the TS saw and rails in combination with the MFT (and the dust collector of course).  From the beginning I had poor results when cutting melamine with my TS75.  I initially used an ATB blade as recommended in the Festool literature, but then switched to a TCG blade because that's what I had always used in sliding table saws. 

Jumping ahead now... I attended the AWFS show in Vegas last week and spent quite a while in the Festool booth checking out new tools.  While I was there I mentioned my chipping problems when cutting melamine.  It was recommended that the TS55 would be a better solution for cutting sheet goods since I really don't need the depth of the 75.  So when I got back home I went to my local Festool dealer and picked up a brand new TS55 and a TCG blade.  Unfortunately I am still getting very poor results when cutting melamine.  The underside of the panel is acceptable but the top side is definitely not acceptable.  There is minimal chipping against the guide rail but on the offcut side - the results are TERRIBLE.  I'm using a brand new splinter guard which I cut into at the same depth...  Any suggestions?  I'm starting to believe that it's just not possible to cut melamine with perfect results on both sides of the blade.  I used to work at a commercial shop with sliding table saws and a beam saw.  Both of these pieces of equipment cut melamine very well - but the cost is obviously much higher.

I'd appreciate any thoughts that anyone has.  Is anyone getting perfect results on both sides of the blade when cutting melamine? 

 

[MarkF]

If the offcut side is protected by the green offcut side splinterguard then I would guess you are setting the blade too deep.  The gullet should be equal to the bottom edge of the workpiece.

 

[Alan m]

i have the same problem lately. i feel that the quality of the melamine is worse than before. i was at a local festool show yesterday and they were using a solid surface blade. the edge was perfect . it would cut you you it was so chip free.
thats my next move .

 

[waynelang2001]

I would recommend scoring the top of the melamine by 1mm first then going back and making the full cut. But unless your blade is extremely sharp even this method will not give you perfect results because the blade tends kick up small pieces of chipboard and that is what damages the melamine.

 

[Mettes]

when you make a scoring cut, like waynelang2001 suggested, the best way to do this is pushing your saw backwards, so the cut is made in the same direction as the sawblade is turning.  That's also the way a scoring blade on a sliding tablesaw works.

 

[ajones]

Hi Take the ts55 back and buy the mafell mt55 it has a scoring facility that moves the blade sidways 0.1 of a mm and it will run on the festool track.

 

[waynelang2001]

Hi Take the ts55 back and buy the mafell mt55 it has a scoring facility that moves the blade sidways 0.1 of a mm and it will run on the festool track.

This is a very good saw, but with that function you only get a clean cut on the rail side, but i never uses the off cut side anyways so it would be fine.

Also pulling the saw back to make the scoring cut does work but it burns the blade so it dulls very fast. A scoring blade is made up of two thinner blades so the burning isn't as bad as with the thicker blades.

[dead horse]

 

[jmbfestool]

I own the TS55 and TS75 and yes the TS55 is far better for cutting melamine  as I have tried both and the TS75 does not run as smooth as the TS55 which seems to affect the quality of cut

Now I found using the TS55 the off cut piece you will get a better cut then the piece your actually sitting on and want which is kinda annoying!     Any way  scroring backwards is the only way to get a cleanest cut with the off cut and the piece you want!    

Now I have 30sheets of melamine at my house so I'll do a video to show you want i am trying to explain now.

So I have tried 1mm scoring backwards but like mentioned melamine still seems to chip once you go forward and cut right through.    I have found it's best to go backwards 4mm deep making shore your TS55 doesn't try and pull it's self backwards so have good hold and push the TS55 into the rail. Then set the saw to just cut through the melamine and go forward but this time push the saw slightly away from the guide rail this should give your piece your rail is sitting on a clean but but yout off cut might chip.

But if you was to do the same but let your TS55 glide freely istead of pushing towards or away from the rail you get a clean off cut piece.

Normally I would just do a 1 or 2 mm score and just use the saw normally on everything else but with melamine it just seems to chip it still it's not very good stuff really like Alan said properly don't make them like they use to.

When doing it like I said above if you look really closely when doing a 4mm or more score the blade seems to slightly offset it's self but the wrong way so you get a good off cut but if you push the TS55 away and towards the rail it does it the other way for the piece you want.

Oh also helps clamping your rail down especially if you slighty putting side ways force on the saw don't want the rail moving!

Jmb

 

[Julian Tracy]

I have a TS55 and probably 3-4 of the 48 tooth blades.

To see where I was in terms of blade quality between the blades, I did some testing with Melamine and found that all of the blades cut ok on the top surface, rail side, but only the very sharpest blade cut chip free on the bottom edge.

But by lowering the blade to a depth not really feasible on the MFT, I was able to get excellant bottom side cuts with all my blades.

So to me, the biggest drawback of the MFT is that you HAVE to have the blade set at a minimal blade depth to use the table.

Melamine is the hardest material to get great cut quality with - funny as it's the cheapest darn stuff build with!

JT

 

[ccarrolladams]

Before I owned a pressure beam saw and a large slider table saw (both with scoring units) I successfully broke down thousands of sheets of melamine on conventional cabinet table saws and with TS55.

Shortly after buying my first TS55 I purchased a Festool 48 tooth Solid Surface/Laminate blade. The current part number is cat 496 309. I make sure the blade is exceptionally sharp and I carefully set the plastic "presser-foot" splinter guard on the saw. I cut with the plastic side up. I make a pass with the blade only exposed 1mm, as a scoring cut. Immediately I make the full depth cut. Under the melamine I place scraps of 18mm plywood or MDF on top of my normal sacrificial surface. I do set the cut depth for that final pass 37mm so it goes through the scrap and slightly nicks the sacrificial surface.

The scoring units of the pressure beam and the slider table saws turn counter to the main blade and at far higher speed. Relatively speaking those are small blades. They score just ahead of the main blade. Since you want to score the plastic, the downside of the slider table saw is that the plastic must be down. For this reason you want the off-cut away from the sliding table.

The advantage of the pressure beam saw is that the saw units run under the work, with is held stationary by the pressure beams with press very close to the blade. The working surface of the beam saw is an air table, to reduce chances of scratching as the material is moved into position. My experience is extending the blade well above the melamine reduces chip-out of the back. On both the slider and the beam saw I use the largest blades possible with the scoring unit in use and those blades are designed for Solid Surface/Laminate similar to the Festool cat 496 309 except larger.

Blade speed needs to be considered. For the TS55 with the SS/Laminate blade Festool suggests setting 3 to 5. I find usually my results are best at 3. Using the slider and beam saw, because the blades are much larger, the actual rpm is slower than with the TS55. With saw blades it is all about the feet per minute at the working circumference of the blade.

 

[jmbfestool]

I have a TS55 and probably 3-4 of the 48 tooth blades.

To see where I was in terms of blade quality between the blades, I did some testing with Melamine and found that all of the blades cut ok on the top surface, rail side, but only the very sharpest blade cut chip free on the bottom edge.

But by lowering the blade to a depth not really feasible on the MFT, I was able to get excellant bottom side cuts with all my blades.

So to me, the biggest drawback of the MFT is that you HAVE to have the blade set at a minimal blade depth to use the table.

Melamine is the hardest material to get great cut quality with - funny as it's the cheapest darn stuff build with!

JT

I agree forgot to mention that having the blade at maximum depth helps for the underside as the blade is cutting upwards.

Jmb

 

[phmade]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.  A couple of notes that I should add:

-I am using the Corian blade.
-I am setting the blade depth to 33mm (gullet is equal to the bottom of workpiece)
-I have used a sliding table saw and a pressure beam saw.  Both are awesome tools, but very large and expensive compared to festool.  I don't have the volume to justify these tools yet.  I am considering a CNC router but that may be a year or more in the future.

I'll try scoring cut and see if I have any luck with that.  I had tried with the TS75 but I still didn't get the results I was looking for.
I'll check out the mafell but I really want a clean cut on both sides of the blade - top and bottom.

Thanks jmb - I'd appreciate a video and I'll try to make one as well.  Hopefully someone can spot a flaw in my technique. 

It is funny that melamine creates such a problem when cutting since it is the cheapest material to work with.  I'm really considering switching to another material but haven't found the right one.  No other material seems to be as flat and have a consistent thickness as melamine.  Baltic Birch plywood is close but much more expensive and requires finishing.  I'm starting to like some of the honeycomb core materials - hopefully they get more popular and available here in the U.S.!

ccarrol - I'll try slowing down my blade speed - I have been running it at 6...

I think the general consensus is:  Melamine is difficult to get perfect cuts on!  I would love to attend a festool workshop and see their trained techs cutting the same material as I am.  Would they have the same problem? 

Thanks again to everyone.

 

[junk731]

Try melamine coated MDF, about the same weight as particle core but cuts way better. Trying to get a perfect chip free cut with today's particle core melamine is usually a dream with any saw let alone a saw without scoring.

John

 

[Phil P]

I'll check out the mafell but I really want a clean cut on both sides of the blade - top and bottom.

It is funny that melamine creates such a problem when cutting since it is the cheapest material to work with.  I'm really considering switching to another material but haven't found the right one.  No other material seems to be as flat and have a consistent thickness as melamine. 

I'm in complete agreement with the poster who says that you need to go to MF-MDF to get a near perfect edge (the "granules" of timber in MDF are much smaller so the surface laminate material is far better supported). That's partly why it is used for shop/store fitting despite the added cost. I've also got to ask which brand of MFC (melamine) are you using, and how long has it been in stock? Over here (UK) the best MFC comes from the German firm Egger (although ours is manufactured at their plant in England) and that's what I use on domestic kitchens - it has rarely been in stock for any length of time (did you know that the laminated surface of MFC gets brittle with age/exposure to UV?) and their quality is top dollar. Cheap materials, such as Contiboard (sold to the home DIY market) has often been in the rack for up to a year and in any case has a really coarse core. It never cuts well, even on a scoring slider. With kitchens it is often possible to "hide" the poorer quality cut edges by placing them inside cabs, under shelves, etc and that's exactly how I approach this problem when dealing with cheap MFC

Regards

Phil

 

[Alan m]

[welcome] to the fog phil

i must do a bit of research on the brand sold localy

 

[jmbfestool]

[welcome] to the fog phil

i must do a bit of research on the brand sold localy

me to!  My melamine I bought  is CRAP! 

JMB

 

[Phil P]

Thank you Alan and JMB!

If you get a choice I'd certainly recommend Egger over other brands. British Kronospan (the Chirk made stuff) or CaberDecor (the other "British" brand) aren't as good. Finsa (Spanish) and Depalor aren't available to me regularly so I'm unable to say how good/consistent they are.

Regards

Phil

 

[phmade]

I finally gave up on the TS55...  I was getting equal results with my TS75 and I couldn't justify the additional $525 + blades for the TS55.  I do suspect that the quality of my melamine is the real culprit.  I am using Flakeboard (made in Canada) brand melamine.  I'll have to deal with 1 bad edge until I can afford the CNC router... 

 

[harry_]

I have found when cutting melamine with my TS75 I get about 50% less chip-out if i use painters tape on the cut line. Most of the jobs where I use melamine get a glued edging anyhow. I found that doing this helps me in a number of ways and actually got in the habit of doing this when cutting plywood.

it is easier/faster cleaning up glue squeeze out.
it provides a surface for pencil marks other than the melamine. (melamine cleans up easy enough, but not with a pencil eraser  [scared] )
it helps me keep the edging only slightly proud of the melamine when i 'finger-flush' it to the tape
it provides a 'barrier' for when I do my sanding & finishing of the edging.

I realize of course that this is an extra step, but sometimes the long way is the quickest route.

-----

Curious, but has anyone bothered to try cutting melamine a little proud then dressing it back with a router?

 

[waynelang2001]

I have found when cutting melamine with my TS75 I get about 50% less chip-out if i use painters tape on the cut line. Most of the jobs where I use melamine get a glued edging anyhow. I found that doing this helps me in a number of ways and actually got in the habit of doing this when cutting plywood.

it is easier/faster cleaning up glue squeeze out.
it provides a surface for pencil marks other than the melamine. (melamine cleans up easy enough, but not with a pencil eraser  [scared] )
it helps me keep the edging only slightly proud of the melamine when i 'finger-flush' it to the tape
it provides a 'barrier' for when I do my sanding & finishing of the edging.

I realize of course that this is an extra step, but sometimes the long way is the quickest route.

-----

Curious, but has anyone bothered to try cutting melamine a little proud then dressing it back with a router?

I have done this and it works very well but the bit get blunt fairly quickly.