TS55: Should there be slight saw marks at plunge/retraction points?

[MikeDeuce]

Hey folks,

Just spent a full weekend with the new toy, and have a little question. FWIW, I have not verified proper alignment or tuned the saw, since I wanted to play a bit before getting "serious" .

That said, I noticed that when I plunged or retracted the saw into MDF, it left slight saw marks. By "slight," I mean they could absolutely be sanded away without much effort, but they were definitely noticeable compared to the nearly polished look of the rest of the cut. When starting a cut with the saw fully plunged before contacting the material (and only retracting it once the blade was completely clear of the material), the entire cut had that polished look. That method seemed to be totally consistent in providing an absolutely beautiful edge, but it's a little tricky (impossible) to achieve that in a 49" wide piece of MDF with a 55" guide rail.

Is this to be expected, or is it indicative of an alignment or technique issue? It's a minor annoyance, and I could always join another small section of guide rail to provide the extra length for wide crosscuts... but I'm just looking for thoughts before I spend a ton of time trying to chase the perfect setup.

My plunge and retract technique is one handed, I'm not using my left hand on the other handle because I felt like that would aggravate the issue.

Thanks!
mike

 

[greg mann]

Try using your left hand to provide the plunge force, straight down and forward on the handle and just use your right hand for the switch and to propel the saw forward with a balanced amount of effort with both hands, so to speak. If you get good cuts in a straight line without plunging then your saw is probably set up well. Practice technique a little before you mess with the saw alignment.

 

[Mirko]

What could be happening is the saw is coming up off the guide at the moment you plung it down, you can remedy this by plunging slower or using both hands on the saw. I would except that a small sawmark once in a while is very reasonable, and overall the saw will work 99% perfect.
If you think that is bad you should see the saw marks left on a board, while useing a 15,000 dollar european sliding table saw. Knowing that, I have learned to forgive and forget these tiny problems.
Good luck!

Mirko

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Since I only got my TS55 on Monday (after a 200 mile round trip!), I have even less experience than you! Today I was also cutting MDF - making 8ft rip cuts in 18mm (3/4") material for bookshelves. You say that you "haven't verified proper alignment or tuned the saw", but have you tightened the two green guide rail gib cams so that the saw slides along the rail without any sideways movement or binding? See Page 8 of the excellent manual at http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/docs/TS_55_EQ_US.pdf

Also, and especially if you are doing things one-handed, make sure that the base of the saw bits flat on the rail for the whole time - mine has a tendency to tip over at a slight angle if I don't keep downwards pressure on the saw's baseplate. This echos Greg's and Mirko's comments.

These are just two suggestions from a brand new (and totally delighted!) owner, and hopefully more experienced users will add a few more.

Forrest

 

[Loren Hedahl]

I find that for best cutting, I choose a guide rail long enough that the saw is completely plunged before starting to cut and completely plunged at the end of the cut.

This requires a guide rail about 2 - 3 ft longer than the piece being cut.

Like Mirko, I don't depend on having a perfect cut from any saw. 

If I get a perfectly smooth cut, that's cool. 

If there are minor circular marks, that's OK also as I have methods of dealing with them.

Actually, I get more out-of-sorts with burn marks than about anything other than stupidly cutting something too short or too small.

Loren

 

[MikeDeuce]

Thanks for the tips everyone! The gibs are definitely nice and tight (lateral play is a pet peeve), but I have certainly not tried involving my left hand like the other methods mentioned.

And just to clarify, I'm *thrilled* with the saw and guide, but if I can get the entire cut to look consistently flawless, that can only improve my efficiency.

 

[mxlars]

I'm extremely satisfied my my TS55, and the cuts have been incredibly smooth since I bought it (at introduction in Europe).
So satisfied - I'm actually 'saving it' as a precision tool, and using my older Elu or B&D circular saws for subflooring etc.  ;D

Have you checked your tilt mechanism/lock for any give or instability?
It's dead stable on mine, but I guess if this is *just* a little wobbly in any part here(hingepins, lock etc.) the blade would move with varying resistance in the cutting material causing the marks you describe.

 

[Les]

As others have stated, technique could well be your problem. Loren and Mirko are sending you in the right direction. If you expect the plunge mechanism to move in a perfect arc, that is not reasonable.  ;D Imagine the cost involved to make a saw perfect. You'll drive yourself crazy looking to fix a problem you can easily correct by sanding or scrapping. Enjoy your saw but don't expect that you bought a tool made to do tool and die quality work.

 

[Tinker]

I suspect the saw is not set up perfectly to cut @ perfect 90º.  Check that out before checking anything else.  The saw will cut smooth at any angle you set it at and if you are perfect in the way you handle it, you can make smooth cuts from end to end, including while plunging.  Once the saw is tilted, it becomes more and more difficult to keep it lined up while plunging.  I had the same problem at first. I still use both hands while making bevel cuts as the plate wants to tip off of the guide bar. 

When I got my ATF 55, I was used to making plunge cuts with my old Milwukees and got into trouble by tipping the entire saw and bottom plate forward to make my first plunge cut.  i learned real quick that ain't the way to do it with Festool saws.  It tok a few practice cuts to become aclimated and comfortable with doing it the Festool (Festo at that time) way.  With just a little practice, it all fell into place and I became very comfortable and able to make those glassy smooth cuts as a matter of habit.  Ocassionally, I bolt two guide bar together.  If i bolt an old style with a new style, there is just a tiny bit of offset to the guide rail.  you can't see it (I can't see it without glasses is what i mean), but I can feel it with my fingers. That tiniest offset is enough to loosen the little guides inside the saw plate and the slop that results will make for a rough cut. I will be getting a couple more of the new guide bars so that probem will be eliminated.

I don't know about others, but I always change blades for cutting MDF or other man made materials.  I have a negative pitch blade I use then.  also, if i am cutting a lot of plywood.  The cut is just as smooth, but the teeth will stay sharp longer for those cuts. (I learned about neg pitch blades cutting nail and concrete impregnated lumber for nearly 40 years.)
Tinker

 

[mxlars]

I guess the chance of a TS55 passing Festool's QC with material defects are less than slim, only stories I've seen so far regarding defects was a CDD12 not running true, and a C12 trigger problem on this forum. *Looking forward to receive my new/first c12 kit tomorrow btw.*  ;D

Guess it's an allignment issue, but leaning more to a 'bad habit' or unprecise technique causing the slight marks(no pun intended o).
IMO powertool precision is the right feel of what the tool is doing to the material, and let the tool do the job, rather than try forcing it or using a set rythm. The right feel can be hard sometimes, but I'm still impressed of how easy it was getting used to the TS55/railsystem!

....
Even though I have more cordless drills than I ever uses, I still bought the Festool C12 with all the bells & whistles and ofcourse the new DD-DC chuck..
Next on my list is a CT (although I already have two wet/dry vac's), one of the RO sanders and then possibly a midsize, versatile router like the OF1400.

Sorry for the OT

*Hi, my name i Lars, and I'm an addict..* 

*edit*
Just reading the great manual for the TS55 by Rick Christopherson, nicely written!
I'm sure the settings on pg.12 regarding matching to an existing rail - (base/rail calibration), and plunge depth settings would do the trick - and are so much better explained than in my manual which came with the saw..
My Festool is still at factory settings after 2 years, and my previous comments are obsolete.