TS75 + Router Table a good idea for small garage shop?

[jstad]

I recently moved into a home and have begun setting up my garage workshop. The shop layout has to be modular given the size, but I am struggling to figure out how to fit any sort of table saw (other than a small jobsite/contractor saw).

Here is the measurements of the garage. I am assuming I need a place for a router table and table saw. It seems the footprint of a saw that will produce any sort of furniture quality cuts is 60"+ in width; I have been looking at going the Festool TS 75 EQ + MFT/3 table route in place of a table saw. Thoughts on this? I am a DIY/hobby woodworker. I want to have tools that make furniture projects enjoyable rather than frustrating. If it helps, my project list at the moment consists of:

Built-in cabinets in office/basement
Media Center for living room
Coffee Table
Outdoor Patio lounge furniture
iPad (tablet) stands
Craft Table & storage

How difficult am I making it for myself by not having a table saw at all? Would the Festool TS 75 (assuming the 75 over 55 for flexibility of not having a table saw) and a Router Table make up for not having a table saw? I am hoping to make most of these projects out of rough cut walnut where possible. If I have the Track Saw + Router Table combo, would adding a small jobsite table saw be of any benefit or is this a "buy a cabinet saw or your not saving yourself much" situation?

Large Tools I already utilize:
Dewalt 12" DW715 single bevel compound Miter Saw

 

[builderbob]

We all know how space consuming a cabinet saw can be.  I have a 2 car garage as my workshop (it's free and it works). I do have a small job site table saw that I use for rips...face frames and such. Aside from that my track saw does the rest of the work. I would say start with what you have and add a job site table saw if need be...they're easy to tuck away if necessary!

 

[Birdhunter]

I'm sure you will get inputs from pro and con table saw advocates.

I have a Sawstop Industrial table saw and a dual MFT/TS55 setup. I also have a large router table.

I build boxes and small furniture with an occasional large project. There is no way I could get the precise cuts I need without a solid table saw with an excellent fence. With a saw guide, sawhorses, and my TS55, I could break down sheet goods outside my shop.

I wish the CMS router table had come out before I built my big router table setup. It's a fine small router table that would fit most of my needs.

I'm at a loss to understand your plan to use rough cut wood without a jointer, planer, and bandsaw to dimension the wood.

 

[Kevin Stricker]

Your problem is in the choice of occupants,  loose the cars and you have plenty space.  Much easier to broom off snow from cars than clean up sawdust.  Not to mention the complete mess made by the melted road grime all over your shop floor when you park a car in your shop.

A track saw is just a circular saw on a rail, a table saw is mandatory in my book for furniture grade projects.  Sure plenty of folks around here compromise, but make sure you call it what it is.  I can guarantee you that if you asked your question to 10 professional woodworkers most would look at you like you were nuts.  A master craftsman can make do with fewer tools, an apprentice needs all the help he can get.  It's hard to top the consistent accuracy of a good cabinet saw, not to mention the flexibility. There is no other tool that can perform as wide a range of operations: rip, crosscut, groove, dado, raise panels, taper, straight line rip.

If you do have a track saw there is really no need to have bigger than a 32" fence, drop a router in the right extension, another in a fold down extension table.  Yes it is a big chunk of real estate, but given its importance I feel it is well worth the sacrifice.

 

[jstad]

Birdhunter,
 I meant to say that the goal was to use rough cut lumber and make the following items mentioned above. I was hoping to make due jointing and planing with a router table and plane sled (and if space allowed pick up a portable planer down the road if the task was too big of a pain).

I am trying to plan out the long term shop plans given the shop layout constraints. The advice I had gotten on starting a shop typically started with a good router, router table, and table saw. Given I cannot seem to fit a good table saw in my space, what should I get instead to make up for that? Does a tracksaw gain me much in those terms or are there better options?

 

[sancho57]

IMO festool excells in small spaces. During my recent move, I had to fill my garage (standard 2 car) with a lot of furniture. Plus finish some projects.

It comes down to organization. I would 1st set up where you want your electrical to be, add the outlets. Then build your storage. There are lots of ideas here on home made sysports, mobile work tables etc. I use 2 MFTs for mine. CMS is definitely a space saver. In my new Euro shop, I plan on utilizing the CMS modular concept.

Much like the drop in router module I am planning on mounting some tools to ply/mdf tops to drop into the CMS. For example, I use the Festool 850 planer as a bench jointer. So I will mount it to a piece of ply/mdf the same size (w & L) as the router module and when needed just set into the CMS.  Festool makes a rack to store all the modules. I plan on making a stoarge rack for my home made modules..

You could also make a modified Guido wall to help you with your storage needs to.

Be aware though you can do everything you want to do with a track saw ILO a table saw, It takes longer and you will have to be creative and make some jigs. Most of the jigs and methods you will need have already been answered on this site. Just search it. If you cant find it, someone here will answer your question or post a link for the info.

Great group here and Ill be the first to say

[welcome]

Hope this helps

 

[Kev]

Such a shame the Festool portable table saws and CMS modules aren't available to you.

I'd be considering a bandsaw ...

If you go for a compact table saw of any saw, make certain it will give you the accuracy you need - a lot of the portable table saws lack accuracy. I was quite impressed with a Metabo I was looking at recently, but I didn't actually try it (also don't know if it's available in the US)

 

[Birdhunter]

I know the following doesn't directly answer your question, but I sometimes take advantage of my local Woodcraft store. They either have or have access to tools that I either can't afford or can't accommodate in my modest shop.

For example, I was doing a commission piece (wine chest) that had a lid too large (20"X20") to go through my 16" Performax drum sander. The wood was way to costly to risk getting it perfectly flat with the tools I had. So, I took it to Woodcraft and they ran it through a wide drum sander and the cost was less than $15. And, they squared it up for me at no extra charge.

I buy lots of rough cut large boards for my projects. I simply cannot envision dimensioning the boards without my bandsaw, jointer and planer. If I didn't have those tools, I'd buy time in the Woodcraft training room where they have those tools and people skilled in their use or I'd find a friendly well equipped woodworker in my area who could help me out.

 

[L.Alexander]

From my own experience, I've a few solutions to sawing needs. I have the TS55R, TS75 and rails with the MFT/3, my kapex and CS70. fir you, the CMS system with the TS75 and insert system would help you out a great deal, with the router, I'd also get the router insert system, sliding rail and rear take off table. I'd also look at the right hand extension table and LA guide ripping rail. the whole system would collapse without issues. the CMS is a fully modular unit and would give you opportunities  in your situation. I'd look into a package deal with the CMS including extraction hoses, etc.

lew

 

[fastbike]

CMS not currently available in the US with the track saw, and frankly the price is ridiculous for the router table.

From my own experience, I've a few solutions to sawing needs. I have the TS55R, TS75 and rails with the MFT/3, my kapex and CS70. fir you, the CMS system with the TS75 and insert system would help you out a great deal, with the router, I'd also get the router insert system, sliding rail and rear take off table. I'd also look at the right hand extension table and LA guide ripping rail. the whole system would collapse without issues. the CMS is a fully modular unit and would give you opportunities  in your situation. I'd look into a package deal with the CMS including extraction hoses, etc.

lew

 

[Acrobat]

From my own experience, I've a few solutions to sawing needs. I have the TS55R, TS75 and rails with the MFT/3, my kapex and CS70. fir you, the CMS system with the TS75 and insert system would help you out a great deal, with the router, I'd also get the router insert system, sliding rail and rear take off table. I'd also look at the right hand extension table and LA guide ripping rail. the whole system would collapse without issues. the CMS is a fully modular unit and would give you opportunities  in your situation. I'd look into a package deal with the CMS including extraction hoses, etc.

lew

Just question, why do you feel the LA guide ripping rail is necessary? I'm curious to know as the cms has it's inbuilt fence on the protractor that can be turned the long length so wouldn't that be simply doubling up?

 

[cliffp]

I have the CMS, TS55R and LA Rip Fence. I actually only used it for the first time a couple of days ago. I think the LA fence is well worth getting. It fits very quickly and easily to the table via the 'V' grooves on opposing sides of the CMS. You can either lock it out with the large rotary knob (the type that are invariably used to lock fences to 'V' grooves) which is quick but not so easy to set precisely, or you can operate a separate lever that then allows you to use the microadjust dial. This enable you to very precisely and controllably set the position of the fence. You then tighten the rotary knob to lock it down tightly. Another lever (conveniently located at the same end of the fence) locks down the opposite end of the fence. The fence is now so solidly located you could probably stand on it and it wouldn't move. I used this arrangement to rip a few dozen 12mm wide, 1.8 metre long strips of oak (20mm thickness) and got great results. The fence supplied with the CMS is not all that solid and I have experienced some less than perfectly straight cuts using it (around 0.3mm error in 18"). Like you I wondered if the LA  fence was worth the money but when you see the quality of engineering and the results it is worth it.

 

[Acrobat]

I have the CMS, TS55R and LA Rip Fence. I actually only used it for the first time a couple of days ago. I think the LA fence is well worth getting. It fits very quickly and easily to the table via the 'V' grooves on opposing sides of the CMS. You can either lock it out with the large rotary knob (the type that are invariably used to lock fences to 'V' grooves) which is quick but not so easy to set precisely, or you can operate a separate lever that then allows you to use the microadjust dial. This enable you to very precisely and controllably set the position of the fence. You then tighten the rotary knob to lock it down tightly. Another lever (conveniently located at the same end of the fence) locks down the opposite end of the fence. The fence is now so solidly located you could probably stand on it and it wouldn't move. I used this arrangement to rip a few dozen 12mm wide, 1.8 metre long strips of oak (20mm thickness) and got great results. The fence supplied with the CMS is not all that solid and I have experienced some less than perfectly straight cuts using it (around 0.3mm error in 18"). Like you I wondered if the LA  fence was worth the money but when you see the quality of engineering and the results it is worth it.

Thanks Cliff, appreciate the info on it. Looks like a few more things to save for!
cheers