TTS acquiring Saw Stop..?

[Stone Message]

Where is the Sawstop kit made - US, Taiwan, elsewhere ?

Does Sawstop have any European manufacturing connection ?

Will the (many) Sawstop patent rights go lock stock and barrel to TTS ?

Are any of those patents applicable to tools other than table saws ?

How do Bosch figure in this ?

Peter

 

[TylerC]

Where is the Sawstop kit made - US, Taiwan, elsewhere ?

Does Sawstop have any European manufacturing connection ?

Will the (many) Sawstop patent rights go lock stock and barrel to TTS ?

Are any of those patents applicable to tools other than table saws ?

How do Bosch figure in this ?

Peter

TTS will also take over SawStop's portfolio of patents. Beyond that, I really can't comment on anything else yet.

 

[ben_r_]

Where is the Sawstop kit made - US, Taiwan, elsewhere ?

Does Sawstop have any European manufacturing connection ?

Will the (many) Sawstop patent rights go lock stock and barrel to TTS ?

Are any of those patents applicable to tools other than table saws ?

How do Bosch figure in this ?

Peter

Saws are made in Taiwan.

 

[Wooden Skye]

I don't think the safety feature of the SawStop would be effective on the Kapex or other miter saw.  First I believe the Kapex is to light to handle the jarring nature of the brake stopping the blade.  Second sort of builds off the first the saw would need to be bolted to a solid surface, which eliminates the portability aspect.

 

[glass1]

Maybe festool can redesign that crap sawstop contractor saw

 

[aprude51]

I think this acquisition makes sense from a business perspective. A few thoughts:

1) Saw Stop products are built around a few unique features that help them command a premium price from the customers who highly value those features, much like Festool.

2) Festool doesn't create lawsuit risk by having a "safety" table saw on the market. For some other companies, acquiring Saw Stop would lead to more (or more effective) lawsuits against them. The acquisition would be an implicit admission that their existing tools were dangerous.

3) The Saw Stop sale is evangelistic, requiring the company to sell customers on both the importance of the problem and their solution to it. Festool has experience with this kind of marketing and will be able to further amplify the SawStop message. Consider the similarities to dust collection.

 

[James Biddle]

Question for those with a SawStop; is the saw equipped with electrical breaking during normal shutdown that would allow it to stop within EU regulations?

 

[Stone Message]

Someone said to me the other day that the number of table saw accidents in North America runs at nearly 100 times that in Europe. It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines.

Maybe that is why Sawstop has not penetrated the European market.

Peter

 

[nickao]

Someone said to me the other day that the number of table saw accidents in North America runs at nearly 100 times that in Europe. It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines.

Maybe that is why Sawstop has not penetrated the European market.

Peter

So your detailed analysis come from "someone said to me"

Come on Peter 3 minutes of googling proves that statement wrong. With a reputation like yours  you should site studies not hearsay.

When you put up videos and post information on various woodworking topics and come across as an expert to some people you need be more careful with the things you say. It is a responsibility I won't take and the main reason I dont post videos on tool use or how I make my items.

I post as some random person that only claims to know what I know from my personal use. Once a person or company is listed as a retailer on this forum and post professional videos and writes articles I think the standard needs  be higher.

Some newbs take your word as gospel so be careful.

 

[amt]

Question for those with a SawStop; is the saw equipped with electrical breaking during normal shutdown that would allow it to stop within EU regulations?

No

 

[antss]

Maybe SS hasn't penetrated the EU market because there is much of one to be had.

Cabinet saws like SS, PM66, Unisaw ect... are just not popular.  The hobbyist doesn't have the space and the mom and pop shops just get a slider.  Then there's the hurdle of an American brand that's actually made in Asia.

 

[Stone Message]

Someone said to me the other day that the number of table saw accidents in North America runs at nearly 100 times that in Europe. It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines.

Maybe that is why Sawstop has not penetrated the European market.

Peter

So your detailed analysis come from "someone said to me"

Come on Peter 3 minutes of googling proves that statement wrong. With a reputation like yours  you should site studies not hearsay.

When you put up videos and post information on various woodworking topics and come across as an expert to some people you need be more careful with the things you say. It is a responsibility I won't take and the main reason I dont post videos on tool use or how I make my items.

I post as some random person that only claims to know what I know from my personal use. Once a person or company is listed as a retailer on this forum and post professional videos and writes articles I think the standard needs  be higher.

Some newbs take your word as gospel so be careful.

So, you want me censored in that I cannot mention something that someone else said to me ?

The Woodworkers Guild of America analysed the 2011 accident statistics and estimate that 39,750 accidents involved the table saw:
https://www.wwgoa.com/article/shop-accident-statistics-woodworking-safety/

Getting any statistics from the UK is not easy, however the UK Health and Safety Executive have analysed figures over the 2013/14 and 2014/15 period. Covering all manufacturing industries (I could not single out woodworking from what was presented) 7,920 injuries per year involved contact with machinery:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/Statistics/industry/manufacturing/index.htm

I have no way of finding out how many of those UK injuries were from woodworking. Woodworking only accounts for £3.8 billion of the £1,940 billion UK economy. Manufacturing represents about 10% of the economy and so the injuries on a (risky) pro rata basis is under 200 in that period.

Peter

 

[Bob D.]

"It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines."

I am n to taking objection to your post at all Peter but I think whoever told you this (above)
misstated the problem. Blade guards have been on NA table saws for decades, riving knives
have been there for about 8 years as a requirement, some better quality saws had them before
they were required.

But where the problem lies as it does with any safety device any on the globe is that if you don't
use it as intended or defeat its function then it is worthless and that is where the majority of the
problem is, people don't use the guard when they could or should. I firmly believe that all the
YouTubers and TV shows which continue to show table saws being used without guards for the
purpose of being able to photograph the cut is wrong and leads people to assume that they can
get away with it too.

 

[kevinculle]

In order to make any meaningful statement about the relative proportion of TS injuries in the USA vs GB (or anywhere else) it is necessary to compare the relative RATES of TS injury incidents.  At the simplest one would calculate the number of injuries per million saws, or per million saw users.  Ideally the number of injuries per million hours of TS operation would be most revealing.

Considering that GB has a bit more than 1/5th the population of the USA and likely a much lower proportion of TSs in use the raw injury numbers are nearly meaningless.

 

[TylerC]

I've removed a few comments about politics, which we don't allow on this forum.

 

[leakyroof]

"It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines."

I am n to taking objection to your post at all Peter but I think whoever told you this (above)
misstated the problem. Blade guards have been on NA table saws for decades, riving knives
have been there for about 8 years as a requirement, some better quality saws had them before
they were required.

But where the problem lies as it does with any safety device any on the globe is that if you don't
use it as intended or defeat its function then it is worthless and that is where the majority of the
problem is, people don't use the guard when they could or should. I firmly believe that all the
YouTubers and TV shows which continue to show table saws being used without guards for the
purpose of being able to photograph the cut is wrong and leads people to assume that they can
get away with it too.

  I've always felt that too. So many DIY and other HGTV shows that have someone flailing away on a Table saw, usually a Contractor or Portable model with no Blade Guard in sight... [blink]
Once in a while you'll see the usage of a Push Stick, but even that's rare.... [scared]

 

[ewils91]

I'm thinking that they will make the purchase, acquire the patents and then wait for it....NAINA will be announced. Jus Sayin... [crying]

 

[JimB1]

Someone said to me the other day that the number of table saw accidents in North America runs at nearly 100 times that in Europe. It is mostly due (so I am told) to the lack of a riving knife and blade guard on NA machines.

Maybe that is why Sawstop has not penetrated the European market.

Peter

I have read similar numbers but I think there are a lot of variables to that number. I know that sliding tables on saws is much more common in the UK. There are very few saws in the US that have them standard and those that do are very pricey like Felder. There are add on sliding tables for contractor saws and cabinet saws but the units are also pricey. Using a sliding table your hands are never anywhere near the blade so very few cases of injury I have heard of .in a saw with that feature.

I also think a lot more people have tablesaws in the US. You can get them for $200 or maybe even less here. I don’t think there are many bargain saws that cheap in the UK but you’d know that better then I do

I think that may be the biggest factor, people without training, teaching themselves how to use dangerous tools, with poor written instruction that come with the tool, that were built to the cheapest price point, what could go wrong?  [eek]

That said, I am not interested in SawStop though I liked the Bosch Reaxx. I am trying to get away from a table saw entirely if I can. I use my track saw and bandsaw a lot but some repeatable cuts work better with a jig and table saw so I keep my Rigid TS3650 for now.

-Jim

 

[AlexThePalex]

I also think a lot more people have tablesaws in the US. You can get them for $200 or maybe even less here. I don’t think there are many bargain saws that cheap in the UK but you’d know that better then I do

I think working with wood is a lot more common in the USA because many of your houses are made from wood, while it is mostly stone here. But cheap table saws are just as common over here so there's still plenty of opportunity for jolly dismemberment.
https://www.praxis.nl/gereedschap-i...sch-gereedschap/zaagmachines/zaagtafels/f185/

 

[ChuckM]

Given TTS's financial might, the TTS acquisition news gave me hope that the SawStop technology or feature might be extended beyond the tablesaw. This, according to its title, seems to show its application in a bandsaw:

I would buy a new, pricey Festool (motor issues free) mitre saw with Kapex's precision and dust collection, and such safety feature without a second thought.