'tweaking brand new tools'

[Davej]

Hi everyone, im new to festool and my first purchase was a trion , first time i used it the blade melted as the guides were too tight , even though you can adjust the guides i returned it on principal ( if festool cant be bothered to set it up why should i ) swopped it for a carvex wich is miles better and miles more expensive , 90° cut no burnt blade , nice and light but handle rather thin , splinter guards work great , but after buying a guide rail and base adaptor i was seriously unimpressed that there is play between rall and base , festool adverttise that you can make straight cuts with this set up but i cant see how if there is 'play ' between rail and base , i stuck a bit of pvc eding between the guide and base which resulted in a perfect fit but why should i have to come up with a solution myself for almost £400 worth of kit, i thought with festool i was buying into precision tools ? am i being too ' picky ' my first impressions are not great , any feedback from the great and good of fog would be appreciated , cheers , Dave .

 

[Alan m]

i presume there are adjustment screws to take out the play

 

[tbellemare]

Dave:

Everything that is made has tolerances. There is no such thing as any manufactured product or aspect of any manufactured product being made to the nominal dimension. Additionally, accommodations must be made for differing Coefficients of Thermal Expansion, which means that dissimilar materials will expand at different rates with change in temperature.

Festool provides adjustable products that ride on guide rails because any product that can't adjust will be either too tight or too loose. Though I don't have experience with the Carvex, all other guide stops must be adjusted to the rail they are being used on at the time.

Jigsaw blades come in different thicknesses also as well as having manufacturing tolerances per those thicknesses. The Trion blade guides should be adjusted with each blade change or left wide open.

Tom

 

[davee]

I experienced the same affect with my new Trion and was also unimpressed.  However, what appears to be a defect is actually a positive feature.  As Tom mentioned there is an adjustment screw.  There is a small wrench stored on the back of the base, which is used to set the guides to the specific blade used.  When dialed in the guides more accurately hold the blade in place making it more stable.  This does require a small adjustment for each blade used.

The approach used is to tighten the guides with the blade pulled forward.  The guides are slowly loosened until the blade slips back into the guides.

 

[Davej]

Tom i appreciate what you say with regards to tolerances but the carvex guide rail base is just made of plastic with no adjustment possible ,  maybe i should heat up the rail and freeze the base to get a snug fit .  [big grin]  [eek]

 

[Davej]

Hi Davee, i appreciate the reply but my issue with the trion was that as i am constantly changing blade types i would spend more time adjusting the guides than doing any cutting  [smile]

 

[Vindingo]

Hi everyone, im new to festool and my first purchase was a trion , first time i used it the blade melted as the guides were too tight , even though you can adjust the guides i returned it on principal ( if festool cant be bothered to set it up why should i ) i thought with festool i was buying into precision tools ? am i being too ' picky ' my first impressions are not great , any feedback from the great and good of fog would be appreciated , cheers , Dave .

I think your logic is flawed in expecting the blade to be spot on from the factory.  The adjustment feature is built in, as others have mentioned, to compensate for different blades.  You aren't "tweaking", just performing a normal task for optimal usage. 

If you purchased a table saw that didn't cut 90* from the factory, because you didn't set it to 0*, would you return it?  Or maybe just turn the knob until it read 0?

The adjustability enables precision, without it, they would have to err on the side of too loose- which would give you sloppy cuts.      

am i being too ' picky

yes.  

I had a Trion, but didn't like it for reasons other than those you have mentioned.  Now, I regret giving it to a buddy because the alternative which I purchased was even worse.      

 

[Kev]

I haven't tried my CARVEX on the track ... I'll give it a go soon and comment back.

 

[ccarrolladams]

Look, the fact is a major part of the art and craft of woodworking is knowing how to adjust our tools. Of course we also need to learn how to use our tools.

Sadly handing cash or a credit card to a Festool dealer and taking delivery of some tools does not automatically make you a talented and experienced woodworker. Buying those Festools does demonstrate that you appreciate their design and manufacturing quality gives you the best chance of learning to use your Festools effectively. When you understand the Festool system approach getting the most from ever successive Festool goes faster.

In my case I had been working in wood under expert instruction since I was 7 years old the summer of 1939. I bought my first 1/4" (6mm) electric drill and an electric circular saw the summer of 1946. I bought a 500 watt router with a 1/4" collet that fall. It could have been as late as 1943 before I bought my first electric hand-operated jigsaw.

The thing is that, with the exception of the Domino 500, every Festool I have ever purchased represents an improvement over previous similar tools. For example, before I bought a TS55 and guide rail I had 60 years experience making straight cuts on plywood by running the off side of a circular saw's base against a straight edge. Sure, for good results it took practice, which is why we save scrap material. So when I put my hands on the TS55 and a guide rail at the dealer I had a good grasp on how to run a saw in such a way I would get the results I wanted. My dealer's TS55 was adjusted to work correctly with the rail on the demo MFT.

As soon as my new TS55 was brought from the back room, along with a guide rail my dealer taught me how to adjust the gibs so the saw moved correctly on the rail. As part of that same transaction I purchased another two 1400mm rails, and the accessory kit including a pair of connector bars. But, my dealer brought a stack of 1400mm rails from storage. He had me mark the first one to which we adjusted my TS55. Then we unpacked many other rails until my dealer was satisfied all three I was taking home fit the gibs as set on my saw. Those other rails were marked 2 and 3.

Ever since then when I am buying additional rails I take my original TS55 with me. It is the standard against which I select every rail. Now I know that as I buy more TS55 and TS75, so long as I set those gibs to fit my #1 1400mm rail, they will work with all my rails.

With a TS55 adjusting and checking toe-in and blade bevel is similar to all other circular saws. The adjusting screws are not in the same place, but the principle is the same. Getting the toe-in right is part of being "at one" with your saw. In my shop that #1 TS55 is kept in reserve as the standard for toe-in and trimming splinter guards. I save 1000+mm scraps of 38mm or so thick maple. Knowing the #1 TS55 is appropriately set for toe-in, I clamp a rail onto the length of maple close to an edge and make a cut. Now, leaving the rail in place I adjust as many TS55 and TS75 as need toe-in check. All will kiss the edge of that maple the same way. Now all of my saws work as well with all my rails. After you set the toe-in many times it becomes second nature.

I happen to love my Trion PS300, which is just as well since the Carvex PS400 is NAINA. The Trion's blade guide is similar in principle to all the 20+ jigsaws I owned and used before the Trion. The thing is to make a decent cut with a jigsaw, the blade guides must be set appropriately. Set those guides many times on several saws and it is second nature.

Yes, since the Trion some jigsaws have reached market with the claim of auto-setting the blade guides. All I have read about that is horror stories. Maybe by magic the Carvex does a fine job of auto setting, but ultimately it is my responsibility as the woodworker to ensure the guides on the saw I am using are appropriately adjusted. If I forget or the auto-adjust does not work, I have to accept personal responsibility.

 

[Davej]

Thanks for your reply ccarrolladams and i very much appreciate what you say , maybe i should have worded it differently with regards to the trion but thats gone now . i have been a joiner for 30 years and pride myself on continuity of work without advertising . i have an old porter cable 6 1/2" circular saw that i run against an aluminium straight edge with perfect results and it runs like a dream. The carvex is a great piece of kit and great 90° cutouts in 40 mm worktops , the jaws do seem to be self adjusting as they dont bind or slop regardless of blade type. the issue is really with the guide rail base adaptor which has no adjustment possible and has some play when on the rail so you have to apply sideways pressure to get a perfect cut and as i used to run the jigsaw against a straight edge with perfect results for years , i think it kinda makes the special base a bit redundant

 

[green fever]

hi dave j , i got shot of my 300 for the same reason blade changes, got the carvex 18 months ago and it has problems like others have stated on here, doesnt make sense that the guide rail base has movement and you have to do a fix yourself and festool are not what you would call low end tools, i have the carvex set but have yet to try the guide rail base plate but as you have stated looks like i shall have to do a fix, shame we have to have a fix for us the end user ourselves , i guess thats what these forums are for and people like you who  enable us to improve on what we have , thanks for the post

 

[mouppe]

I can't sympathize with the anti-Trion crowd. For me the blade guide adjustment is a 10-second operation, just like tweaking a hand plane to get it just right.

 

[Alan m]

i dont see the problem with having to adjust it (obiosly it would be great not to ) it only takes a few seconds everytime you change a blade. i usually only change baldes when they are blunt or i need a specialty blade .

 

[hockey_magnet]

I can't sympathize with the anti-Trion crowd. For me the blade guide adjustment is a 10-second operation, just like tweaking a hand plane to get it just right.

+1 - I also think that a "hard" adjustment is more stable than any automatic adjustment systems, no matter how good they are.

 

[hockey_magnet]

Forgot to add this is obviously not a legitimate poll question. OP, I understand you're having problems but putting it in as a poll when there is not an actual question (both your answers are the same) is not necessary

 

[green fever]

just my opinion on the trion not anti as you may think, i tried the carvex as an improved model but has not yet lived up to the quality i expect from festool, it is going back for repair number 2. perhaps this is the wrong page as its not a general discussion.

 

[tbellemare]

looks like i shall have to do a fix, shame we have to have a fix for us the end user ourselves

With all due respect (and I admit it may be the common language barrier), it is not a fix. It is an adjustment. That adjustment is an asset of the tool. Jigsaws that don't have that asset don't work as well.

Tom

 

[green fever]

for those who choose to offer free advice on this forum i am grateful but please no English lessons .

 

[sancho57]

Hi everyone, im new to festool and my first purchase was a trion , first time i used it the blade melted as the guides were too tight , even though you can adjust the guides i returned it on principal ( if festool cant be bothered to set it up why should i ) swopped it for a carvex wich is miles better and miles more expensive , 90° cut no burnt blade , nice and light but handle rather thin , splinter guards work great , but after buying a guide rail and base adaptor i was seriously unimpressed that there is play between rall and base , festool adverttise that you can make straight cuts with this set up but i cant see how if there is 'play ' between rail and base , i stuck a bit of pvc eding between the guide and base which resulted in a perfect fit but why should i have to come up with a solution myself for almost £400 worth of kit, i thought with festool i was buying into precision tools ? am i being too ' picky ' my first impressions are not great , any feedback from the great and good of fog would be appreciated , cheers , Dave .

I recently bought a trion jig saw. I wouldnt of known about the adj either if I didnt go to the Intro to Festools end user class at LV.

Steve Bace, the instructor said at the very begining of the class on the first day that that average tool user only gets about 50% use of a tools potential.

I believe that to be true. Especially with festools as they require a different way of thinking to get full use out of their tools.

Now with that being said in the class Steve demo'd the trion jig saw and went over the adj. I wouldnt of known about the adj if he didnt cover it.

Though at the time I bought the saw I forgot HOW tomake the adj so I asked the Festool specialist at the brick and mortar where I bought it how tomake that adj.

It was the only adj I made on the saw and I did it prior to its first power up. Ive only used it on 3/4 (20mm) Birch ply and it has given me very good cuts even though Ive only used the stock blade that came with the saw.

Here is a short video  of the "Sledge" making the adj. Hope this helps

How to set the carbide guides for a Festool Trion jigsaw

 

[peter halle]

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