Uh Oh, What the Studfinder Missed - Plumbing Tips Anyone?

[WarnerConstCo.]

The rubber coupler is better then a glued in plug. 

Cut out and replace is how I would fix it in a customers house or my own. 

You patch it, something happens, the pipe backs up, plugs leak and you do it again, but get to play with poop water the second time.

Cuttin a section out will not cause the pipe to drop down out of the wall.  If it does, you had bigger problems to begin with. 

 

[waho6o9]

You could cut the coupler in half and sandwich it over the holes with two pipe clamps and epoxy glue around the holes to seal them.  No need to cut out the pipe if you can easily patch the holes.

Bingo, that's what I'd do.

 

[Kevin McConville]

Split the rubber vertically, wrap it around the pipe, put the band clamps back on and it will be exactly what you need.

No disturbing other original joints, nothing inside the pipe to get stuff caught on and no compromise to the original structural integrity.  While I think most of these concerns are somewhat overstated if you feel uneasy then this is by far the best direction to go.

Personally I would cut the section out and replace it, it is truly a simple task, if you are concerned for some reason about the bottom half dropping once you cut it then simply clamp a quick clamp on it where it goes through the floor and it wont drop any.

By the way - if you have enough backup that the pipe fills up high enough PAST the repair point to create enough head pressure to leak at your repair, then none of the plug/epoxy/band solutions will be even close to your biggest concern!

 

[mike_aa]

Some of the plastic rods in this plastic welding rod assortment are ABS and would be compatible to make plugs to glue in.

 

[mastercabman]

Get some epoxy putty for plastic
I don't use studs finder
I always use a nail and feel for studs

 

[hopper]

I wouldn't use epoxy.  It looks like ABS plastic not PVC.  The weld and cleaner that you already bought, if it is for use on ABS (read label), will close the holes.  Cut some small plugs for the larger drilled holes and weld everything using the glue (solvent).  It will be as good as new and as strong as original.  The glue (solvent) will weld (melt) everything together.  The epoxy will just stick it together not weld it.

 

[MaineShop]

My two cents on the matter as I deal with pipes all the time putting in kitchens, and sadly have come across this very scenario more then once.

It is your house and you can do whatever you want, and a plug or some fill would most likely hold up. But as far as all codes are concerned you need to cut that section of pipe out. There are sleeves for such a purpose but they are not ideal and I know for my area at least they are not approved by our local building codes.

Not sure how it is in your area but in ours the entire system must meet a pressure test, that includes all vent lines rather they carry material or not.  A patch or some silicone would be a really hard sell to code enforcement. Not to mention in our area we deal mostly with private septic systems that usually vent up through the in house plumbing so any air leaks even in a vent can vent toxic fumes from your septic into your house. We come across issues where such leaks are caused by sloppy work around where the vent goes through the roof leading to such air and off-gassing accumulating in the attic space (yuck).

That being said this may not be the type of project you had to get a permit for, and you may not be worried about code enforcement if you don't have to have an inspection when the project is complete. But it is your house and the fact you are on the fog says to me that you want things done right. And the way to do it right is cut the swiss cheese section out, and then use a true fitting if you can flex the pipes enough or use a flexible rubber fitting like the ones you showed earlier.

Lots of good advice on here and sounds like you are on the right track.

Adam

 

[WastedP]

I'm glad somebody mentioned that it is ABS pipe, not PVC.  I know some of the newer pipe dope doesn't require you to rough up the pipe with emery cloth, but the plumber I call Dad still does it anyways.  Also, those rubber couplers are still sold in stores but do not meet current code for drain/waste/vent (DWV) pipe connections.  The style with the corrugated metal sleeve is what is required now.  The video Peter posted has a picture of that type of fitting. 

I am 100% with Mr. Warner on the notion that replacement, not repair, of the damaged section is the right path.

I spent the first dozen or so years of my cabinetry career finding studs with a hammer, an awl, and a tape measure.  I bought a studfinder a few years ago.  Using the awl method, I hit one supply line in a split level house when I screwed an upper cabinet to the wall that had the toilet supply line on the other side.  Thus began my policy of asking where the breaker box and water shutoff are before starting any install.  Using a stud finder, I have hit one pipe.  It was running horizontally through the stud I screwed into, and no one had put a plate over it.  It was also a hot water pipe at a hospital daycare, and it was a disaster.  The wall had been framed from a former doorway, with a mix of metal and wood studs.  I had to cut the face of the stud out so I could stick a screw in the hole to plug it until maintenance arrived to find the shutoff in the ceiling.

So with one hit for each method, I use a stud finder, but I still check the spot with an awl to see if it's wood, plastic, or whatever.

 

[rizzoa13]

Please just replace the pipe, please. All you guys suggesting some quick fix wouldn't scab together a load bearing post that you accidently cut right? Wouldn't wrap electrical tape around a few wires and throw it inside the wall? Don't be that guy.

 

[Throwback7r]

Check your Glue! ABS is a different beast. You have to use the right glue and cleaner if you use the wrong cleaner it will end up welding it not just cleaning it.

http://www.oatey.com/products/plastic-pipe-cements-and-primers/oatey-abs-cements

 

[Dbn107]

For what its worth, a few months ago our company demo'd a master bath on the first floor and a wet vent stack ran behind a linen closet.  When we pulled the rock behind the closet door trim there were at least 10 hand drive 16d finish nails smack in the pipe.  The bath was original to the house from the 60's and the nails were still in the pipe but I'm sure there was some movement and there was no sign of water damage anywhere.  It was also an abs pipe and we replaced it but honestly I would have been comfortable putting some 2 part epoxy on the holes.  no kidding gorilla tape would probably have been enough. 

 

[BMAC]

Please just replace the pipe, please. All you guys suggesting some quick fix wouldn't scab together a load bearing post that you accidently cut right? Wouldn't wrap electrical tape around a few wires and throw it inside the wall? Don't be that guy.

I'm with rizzoa13. Do it right.

I see all sorts of half a** repair attempts in my job (fire/flood restoration and formerly as a Casualty and Litigation Insurance Claims Manager) and far too often a catastrophic property loss event can be traced back to a repair done poorly and not to a proper workmanship standard.

Plus, if you do cause a loss at someone else's property you may find yourself potentially liable for the the damages and triggering a claim under your CGL policy and causing upheaval in their lives or putting them at risk for injury.

Ask yourself, what would an experienced licensed and insured plumber, electrician, carpenter, engineer, etc do under the circumstances. Just my $.02 worth.

 

[Grasshopper]

Thanks everybody!  I'm planning to do this right. The areas I don't want to skimp are : water, electric, gas & structural.

I actually may end up calling a plumber.  I'm more than happy building things, but know when to bring in a pro.

Your feedback has been very helpful. Hopefully my next question for the FOG is more fun

 

[Stephen B]

[size=14pt]

For PVC 90 mm and 150mm we sell repair sleeves where I work PT. They are about 200mm long and have a slit along their length to enable them to slip over the original pipe after proper glue has been applied. Assuming the damage is to one side this may work for you.

There may be similar repair sleeves available in NA for ABS.

Otherwise the ABS couplers you purchased. More fiddly though, for you or a plumber.  [big grin]

 

[andy5405]

Well this thread has shown there are plenty of ways to skin a cat as my grandmother used to say. Some are suggesting that some of the proposed solutions are bodge jobs which I find amusing.

A new coupling would be ideal but it might involve having to put quite a bit of strain on fixings up and down the line to enable it to be fitted. That might cause other problems and that is assuming that there is enough movement on the pipe to actually use this method. It wouldn't be as simple as using a slip coupling on copper as there can't be sufficient slip using a solvent weld solution unless you worked at the speed of Superman.

The rubber coupling solution seems to be the next best bet but the pipe would not be as strong as before though I'm not entirely sure it would need to be?

I guess that all the other "lesser" solutions that have been proposed would work as well and I wouldn't be averse to using them in my own house but wouldn't do so in a customer's house. Even a spot of silicon on each hole would work and I wouldn't mind betting that if the pipe was wrapped in gaffer tape that it would work to.

I think it puts it into perspective if you turn the problem on it's head and look at the physics. Suppose the challenge was to find  way of getting even a tiny amount of water to exit the holes by introducing large amounts further up the system. I think you would be hard pushed to get any water out as it is dropping vertically and there are no forces at work that will divert the water from it's downward flow. It could all depend on whether the flow was columnar or laminar as to how turbulent the water was in the pipe and indeed round the outside  of the inside of the pipe and whether the tiny hole on the inside might disrupt flow sufficiently to throw it a few millimetres sideways whilst working against the force of gravity. It might not even leak with the holes unplugged. The OP might already be able to tell us the answer to that.

Also there's no shame in a bodge job provided the bodger has sufficient knowledge of all the materials and parameters at work. Belt and braces solutions are in some ways for the unskilled. I come from a farming background and there is no more pressure to find a solution when important equipment fails than seeing a  rain storm developing on the horizon or having knowledge of a bad weather forecast. It's often a bodge or a quick fix that gets things going again and a crop safely harvested. Often those temporary fixes work so well that they become permanent. You learn a lot growing up in that kind of environment.

I guess there is more pressure than that and it's probably why I'm not fluent in German. I can't imagine that the RAF mechanics that kept all the Spitfires and Hurricanes in the air during the Battle of Britain would have been executing text book repairs all of the time. It's fitting to think in the 50th year since Churchill's death that Britain's finest hour was probably one massive bodge job on the ground. They just did whatever it took to get those planes back out there.

So I say don't automatically disrespect an apparent bodge job as it may well be a professional fix depending on the knowledge of the person proposing it.

 

[jonny round boy]

Please just replace the pipe, please. All you guys suggesting some quick fix wouldn't scab together a load bearing post that you accidently cut right? Wouldn't wrap electrical tape around a few wires and throw it inside the wall? Don't be that guy.

Apples and oranges.

No, I wouldn't try to repair it if I'd cut right through it. If I'd accidentally drilled 3 tiny holes in it however, then there would be no need to replace it. That's what the OP has.

Repairing something to a good standard is perfectly acceptable, and is not a bodge. If repairs weren't acceptable, there'd be a lot of auto bodyshops out of business.

Plugging three tiny holes with the same material* and welding it in doesn't make me "that guy". In this situation, that would be my preferred solution, and done properly I'd put money on it passing a pressure test, too.

*The OP mentioned PVC originally, but as someone else said it's more likely ABS. Either way, there are solvent weld cements available.

 

[festoolviking]

Here is what I would do. I'm not a plumber but I think this is a good fix.

I would use two "repair slip couplings" and a new piece of pipe.
Cut off a piece long enough for one slip coupling in the broken pipe.
Slip one coupling on the pipe upwards and one coupling downwards.
Add a piece of pipe to the same size as you cut out and slip the couplers on.
Use lubricant to make the job easy.

Festoolviking

 

[socaljohn]

I'm not that guy either and I'm with jonny round boy on this one. Don't over complicate this.

You have 3 very tiny holes in a vertical 3" ABS waste pipe in a small cavity. The square area involved is very small.

If you cut through the center hole and push the pipe to one side to slip on the Fernco adapter you will be extending the damage to about 10" line around the entire pipe. Cut above and below and you have 20" total seam across 2 areas. Cutting it out in that small cavity is one difficulty that can grow in complexity. pushing the pipe around could cause problems in an area that you can't see. Don't extend the problem.

Rough up the area around the holes with sand paper, slap some JB Weld or epoxy on it and call it done.
http://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-plasticweld-putty/

 

[WastedP]

If you're going to do a half-(hearted) repair job, why do it at all?  Just pay somebody else $75+ per hour for a service call.  Then you can sue them if your house floods with fecal matter.  Also, if you don't do the repair to code and you sell the house, you could be held liable for not disclosing your jury-rigged fix.  Save the improvisation for post-apocalyptic survival situations.

If this was my house, I'd do the repair myself.  Looking at the original photo, I'd block out the stud to the left of the DWV pipe and strap the pipe to the blocking above and below the damage.  Then cut out the damaged section, with enough room to add a replacement section with couplings.  I'd use a coupler on the bottom of the new section, and a flexible coupling with the metal cover on the upper section.  Make sure your pipe cuts are square.

 

[andy5405]

Hurrah for all the common sense approaches and shorter replies than mine. I tend to waffle in the night when I suffer from insomnia.