Undecided on impact driver

[reburns]

Hi -

I'm thinking between the Festool Ti15 & Hilti SID 18-A 1.6Ah --- can you help me decide?  About me:  I'm a DIY and looking at refastening a 1150 sq. ft. deck on a "new" mountain house I just bought.  The deck is going to take many lag-types and lateral ties, screwing the hangers and rigging to jack up the deck while a new foundation is poured.  I just lucked out & received a CXS this week (my first Festool) and hope to use it for drilling pilots while deciding if to go with the C-handle or T-type for a future "15" model... or if I even need one should the CXS cover all my jobs.  My old 14.4v Porter Cable drill has gone to the big toolbox in the sky, so for now it's just the CXS.  I'm not much interested in the drill-hybrid feature on the Ti15, just screw driving.

Pluses for Festool Ti15:
- more easily fits in a systainer with a future 15 drill.
- batteries and charger will match a future T15 or C15 drill
- more compact.  Maybe quieter?  A little heavier with 3.0Ah battery (3.75#)

Pluses for Hilti SID 18-A (18v brushless.  Their 14.4v impact is brushed afaik)
- will get more batteries (albeit different) with the tool for less $.  (I can buy an open-box one for $300).
- more powerful
- A little lighter with 1.6Ah battery (3.2#)

Another option is to try to make do screwing with a C15 or T15 and skip the impact driver altogether.  Maybe I should consider that as a strong 3rd possibility?

Someone commented that it's not your grandpa's deck.
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[Tim Sproul]

For sure you want an impact driver.  Driving a lot of large screws with a regular drill/driver is right up there with hand mixing 20 yards of concrete.

Me?  I'd go with whichever one that you're more invested in for cordless tools.  Both will drive Timberlock screws and other large screws you need for decking.

 

[Jaybolishes]

I own a roofing company and if you want the most durable drill which can take falls of three stories and keep ticking, go with the dewalt 20v impact.  Tough as nails, light, powerful, lithium ion which last forever, and you can get brushless or the standard type.   I know you are probably not considering dewalt by your post, but you should.  I beat the heck out of this thing and it never lets me down. I screw tens of thousands of screws with it for corrugated panels, and also studding walls you name it its done it and excelled.

 

[erock]

I have the Makita 18v impact.  The batteries charge in 15 minutes.  It's light weight.  Powerful.  I really like the Makita impact.

I also have the Makita 18v drill and 3 batteries to use.  So I never run out of juice. 

If it wasn't for the CXS I would have never bought a Festool drill.  I couldn't bring myself in spending the money on a cordless drill.

But after using my CXS for a while now,  I will be looking into a c12 or c15 when my Makita dies.

Think about the different heads you can put on the Ti15.  You are really getting more then one drill when you buy a Festool drill set.

I vote that you get the Ti15.  If you have a CXS, might as well get your Festool collection started, because it's not going to stop with just one drill  [big grin]

Eric

 

[skids]

Although I am obsessed with Festool, the best impact on the market (and better value) is the Panasonic 14.4 LI. Similar form factor to the Makita, better feature set and battery technology is fantastic, and brushless motor.

 

[reburns]

Thanks!  

For one, I'm fresh out of tools except for the CXS, so not invested in other batteries yet.  And sorry, I'm not a fan of Dewalt.... didn't like their ergonomics but also as a mechanical engineer visited an assembly plant of theirs and was turned off.  A couple folks I'm met said their Makita batteries died prematurely so tending to shy away from them.  I'm kind of the mindset to get some tools that last in lieu of the more disposable consumer route.  I have some of my father's tools which he in turn inherited!

Thanks again!  

I only received my CXS a couple days ago and am test driving out the C-handle... with index finger alongside the motor and middle finger on the trigger... does that still hold true for a bigger C15?  I'm only using the CXS as a big cordless screwdriver for enginerding assembly work thus far.

 

[Jaybolishes]

That's surprising, the ergonomics are amazing on the new line of 20v tools, the sawsall, circular saw, hammer drill. It couldn't be more ergonomic in my mind, are you sure you are talking about same latest tools out?  The plastic is soft, grippy, and designed to perfectly fit the hand, but hey, different strokes for different folks.  The hilti looks like a bulky monstrousity, and doesnt even look to form fit the hand like the newest dw.  Good luck

 

[ScotF]

The good news with Festool is that you can try it for 30 days and see if it is something that works for you...I have one the drills and it is amazing and would not hesitate to buy another.  I also have a Hilti 14.4 drill/driver kit that is really good...the battery life and power are great on the impact.  The new 18v Hilti is a nice tool too -- brushless motor as you say and the head allows you pop a bit in without moving the locking collar -- a small thing, but kind of nice to be able to just push the bit in and go.  Some local HD stores carried the Hilti line and they are discontinuing them so you can find some great deals out there.

Scot

 

[hhh]

Have the new Bosch -- it gives the FT a real run for the money (I have both tools and would recommend the Bosch over the 15Ti).  Most of my Hilti is from their industrial line, so it's comparing apples-to-oranges.  I've yet to try the lighter-duty stuff from H, but the STD 18 does get some good reviews.  On the industrial side, you could drop the H off a roof and dent the sidewalk -- not so sure about the lighter stuff.

 

[Kev]

I started with a CXS, this is the cordless journey that followed ...

Add T18,
Add Centrotec Installers Set
Subtract T18
Add C15
Add Ti15
Add Syslite
Add Protool PDC 18-4

I let go of the T18 when I realised the PDC18-4 was a bigger better version with a four speed gearbox.

I liked the C handle of the CXS and decided that would make for a good 15 combo base (C, Ti and Syslite)

The Ti15 isn't the BEST impact on the market, but I feel it is a good one and when you add Centrotec, Systainer, Festool warranty, battery compatibility .... and for the US a 30 trial period, I can't see is being a bad move.

Also the Ti15 isn't a fantastic drill - but it can be used as a drill and can leverage all of the Festool chucks. Another bonus.

I've found the Ti15's ergonomics and balance to be good and the battery life and charge times are excellent.

I haven't dropped the Ti15 and I don't use tools in a way that its likely to happen - I imagine a big fall wouldn't end well. Festool make their Protool range for heavier duty use (and I still don't understand why at least the battery powered Protools haven't made it to the US).

If a C15 or T15 are future possibilities, the Ti15 makes solid sense.

 

[semenza]

Holy levels Batman !  [eek]  Cool house / deck  [cool]

I don't know anything about the Makita or the folks  you know that had them. But I tend to take 'batteries dying' stories with a grain of salt unless there is a history for the batteries / brand or I really know how the batteries were handled.  People do all kinds of wierd charging stuff  with batteries, most of which is not recomended.

Can't help much on the impact. I have an older DW 12v that has been very good. Never used another one to compare. I have seen the Festool impact in action a little bit, but have not tried it myself. Since I added a C12 I have been using my DW impact much less. The C12 does such a nice job, but for the work you have ahead of you I would go impact for sure.

Seth

 

[woodie]

I picked up the Hilti a few months ago and love it!  It has plenty of power and battery life is awesome!  I was looking for an impact with a brushless motor, selectable power settings (has 3), a battery fuel gauge, and a decent light operated via the trigger.  I was a bit surprised to see the Hilti uses a 21.6 volt battery, as I think it's marketed as an 18 volt tool.

The first pic is the set in a Systainer. The second pic I took to show the size difference between the Hilti, T18, and C12. 

 

[duburban]

Hey, bosch is coming out with a new brushless impact in the next couple months. Bosch cordless is great. Trigger feel is above average and durability is excellent.

I can in no way see a reason to buy festools impact over any other. It has less power and costs 2 times as much. If an impact driver can't ram screws in it offers nothing over a drill but noise.

Makita and all other lithium batteries die prematurely if you don't care for them correctly. There is no inherent issue with their batteries. I have 5 that are over 3 years old and my co workers the same and older.

Hilti, Bosch, Makita, Panasonic...

PS... I really wanted to address the "screwing" of the metal hangers. What type of screw will you be using?

 

[duburban]

I picked up the Hilti a few months ago and love it!  It has plenty of power and battery life is awesome!  I was looking for an impact with a brushless motor, selectable power settings (has 3), a battery fuel gauge, and a decent light operated via the trigger.  I was a bit surprised to see the Hilti uses a 21.6 volt battery, as I think it's marketed as an 18 volt tool.

The first pic is the set in a Systainer. The second pic I took to show the size difference between the Hilti, T18, and C12. 

Is this kaizan foam?

 

[woodie]

No, it's 3 layers of pick-n-pluck foam. I plucked out a patern on each layer and glued them together with 3M contact adhesive.

 

[sean_hogan]

Holy levels Batman !  [eek]   Cool house / deck  [cool]

I don't know anything about the Makita or the folks  you know that had them. But I tend to take 'batteries dying' stories with a grain of salt unless there is a history for the batteries / brand or I really know how the batteries were handled.  People do all kinds of wierd charging stuff  with batteries, most of which is not recomended.

Can't help much on the impact. I have an older DW 12v that has been very good. Never used another one to compare. I have seen the Festool impact in action a little bit, but have not tried it myself. Since I added a C12 I have been using my DW impact much less. The C12 does such a nice job, but for the work you have ahead of you I would go impact for sure.

Seth

Well I bought my Makita 6 piece kit just under two years ago with 3 battery's and just last week I had 5th battery fail on me, this is the 18volt lxt tools, impact driver has lost some of its power and the 3 speed drill smells of burning when I use it. The battery that died last week was in another workmates Makita radio , ran out of juice and now it won't take a charge. In my opinion Makita cordless tools are absolute junk and I will never buy them again. My next impact driver will either be the hilti or Panasonic

 

[fatroman]

The deck is going to take many lag-types and lateral ties, screwing the hangers and rigging to jack up the deck while a new foundation is poured.

Unless you are using special screws from Simpson (or an equivalent) do NOT use screws to fasten your joist hangers. Even the correct screws present their own set of issues. You do not want to have any overdrive on the hangers. Double hot dipped galvanized nails are the correct choice here. Get yourself a palm nailer or even a positive placement gun if you don't want to swing a hammer.

As for impacts, I've had a Makita LXT for six years now. Original batteries are still going strong. Aside from the noise, I love it.

 

[duburban]

absolutely the positive placement gun. you could buy one from bostitch for around 180 and sell it after.

 

[reburns]

Hey Everyone –

Thanks so much for input!

First about the deck job…  here’s a pic.  The original deck was added to and they took short-cuts which like many short-cuts make for a long-cut in the end.  The joists do not run the full length of the deck, but are in two sections old & newer.  The ledgers are rotating away, and the sistered beams half-way are also rotating as the middle foundation (a.k.a patio slab) of the deck settles and everything follows suit.  Also there’s some horrible sistering of the top level mid-beam so that needs to be somehow slipped out and replaced.  So the plan is to tie everything back to the house and jack up the columns and place sufficient foundation underneath.  I’m psyched about the house, been looking for 1-1/2 years and the seller’s remodeled it 12 years ago for me and are also paying the majority of the deck repair.  In return I’m letting them live in it for another month while their 1900’s Victorian house is being renovated.

I’ll learn about the correct fastening, ordered all the Simpson catalogs, and will figure it out… can read code and trade journals (JLC, Handley Deck).  I’m a solo mechanical engineer PE and build flight hardware… if my stuff breaks folks surely die.  Meantime no deck dance parties.  We’ll see but thinking to securely screw the nailed ledgers back to the house and use lateral ties to make joists into tie-rods to pull the outer sections back in.  My current thinking is to use the proper Simpson screws on the hangers because of ice melt-thaw that pushes out nails.  Um, we see plenty of roofing nails.  I know so far is that the fastener is supposed to fully fill the hole, double screws over bolts, and need to learn more about those screw issues.  I’ll contract out the stuff that is bigger than a 1-2 man job, perhaps the jacking and certainly the concrete work. 
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Tools. 
I’ve just poked around the web for reviews, and did see complaints about the Makita battery packs, as well as a couple of comments in person.  I know that heat is a battery killer, but also that there’s a wide variety in the quality of battery pack assembly.

As an enginerd I visited a Dewalt assembly line and saw them assembled right alongside B&D tools, with some interchangeable parts.  The plant’s shipping record was 28K tools in a 24 hour period… felt more like throw-away blenders.  I’m sure there are good DW options and that’s fine… actually this conversation wouldn’t be happening if there weren’t so many good choices.
A client just bought me the CXS last week as I’m doing machine screw assembly work and he just felt like spreading some love.  I’ll use it for work and building an in-law like kitchen, and can see if I like C-type.  It’s an hour drive to visit a Festool dealer… when fondling the tools it seemed like the T-type took less grip to hold, but maybe I’ll drink the C-handle kool-aid after some use.

I see the way of duburban’s view… the Festool impact costs twice for what power it delivers...  Unlike woodie’s I’d go for the lighter Hilti batteries.  Woodie: how gradual/smooth is the trigger on your Hilti?  Not had the chance to look at Panasonic but read only good things.  Like Bosch too… prefer to go with brushless and can’t tell when they’ll offer some.

I do love a sale and there’s a new T15 w/receipt ending eBay today and also a Hilti 18v impact without receipt.  I could/you could get those…

Cheerio - RalphE

 

[AlexThePalex]

I would never choose for the Ti15 impact driver. Because I know how real impact drivers can and should perform, and what I've seen of the Ti15 doesn't come close.

A Panasonic or Hilti is so much better.