Upcoming CXS / TXS 18

[Cut Nail]

CXS 12 2.5-Set
I just received my pre-ordered drill set today all I can say is what a disappointment! Easily the loudest cordless tool I own especially with the torque setting set at 7 or above. You could seriously call this is a screamer. My C 18 - T18+3 - CXS 12 2.6 are all so quiet and smooth. Even my TID 18 and DWC 18 are quieter or at least have a more pleasant sound to them. Now I understand why the videos of the drill have it's sound semi muted. If they didn't they would have to yell to be heard over the drill. It was so wanting to like this drill.

 

[masonwoodshop]

CXS 12 2.5-Set
I just received my pre-ordered drill set today all I can say is what a disappointment! Easily the loudest cordless tool I own especially with the torque setting set at 7 or above. You could seriously call this is a screamer. My C 18 - T18+3 - CXS 12 2.6 are all so quiet and smooth. Even my TID 18 and DWC 18 are quieter or at least have a more pleasant sound to them. Now I understand why the videos of the drill have it's sound semi muted. If they didn't they would have to yell to be heard over the drill. It was so wanting to like this drill.

Yes, that's exactly my experience 7+ (or on drill) and I agree that it's not just the loudness, but also the sound itself. Like you, I was really wanting to love this drill and make it my primary multipurpose drill/driver.

As I noted in my previous message, I did put together a video where at the 13:47 mark I compare it to the Bosch GSR12V brushed version. This is by no means a scientific experiment, but I wanted to convey this one singular flaw.

 

[Cut Nail]

CXS 12
Yes  at 5 setting or below it’s about 86 to 88 dB at the 7 setting it goes up to 105 dB. In drill mode It peaks around seven at 105 dB but when trigger is fully depressed it goes back down to 98 dB. These recordings were takin at one foot distance on my iPhone, so nothing professional.
I feel this tool should have a warning label, saying hearing protection required.
maybe there are just some bad ones out there. It would be interesting to see what Festool has to say on this.

 

[mrboult]

Oh dear. What a disappointment!!
I was soooo looking forward to this drill. But that sound in the video seems horrendous

What an error by festool.

 

[Claimdude]

I received my CXS 12 yesterday and have tested it out. I love the drill! Yes it is loud but I am a hobby user so not listening to it all day everyday. I will probably just set the torque at 5 for most of my using. My old CXS, charger and batteries are on the markwt.

Jack

 

[Holzhacker]

No need to replace my current CXS
Price of the new CXS makes it not appealing. The lower price of the old one made it a good gift option.
That video of the sound makes it a non purchase. Hurts just hearing it on the computer. Would hate to hear that inside a cabinet.

 

[mino]

...
What an error by Festool.

New blood at the design department with no "old hags" around to slap them over their fingers. The 3rd gen SYS3 disaster was just a taster of what was to come.

My guess, it will take this generation bout a decade to learn how to design Festools. Now they are almost there with designing Tools. The Covid hitting them at the same time as the gens were swapped did not help. Making sales-derived feedback useless and new design approaches coming online is the perfect storm. What would take a company 5 years to realize will now be a 10 odd years journey. If it is even possible.

IMO the only solution is to vote with out feet.

Getting the tools which were made by the old guard while still available (looking at you, BS 75 and HL 850!) and going non-Festool where no (proper) Festools are around.

 

[woodferret]

Design by internet survey.  Everyone said 'moar torque!' and they obliged.

 

[wpz]

New blood at the design department with no "old hags" around to slap them over their fingers. The 3rd gen SYS3 disaster was just a taster of what was to come.

My guess, it will take this generation bout a decade to learn how to design Festools. Now they are almost there with designing Tools. The Covid hitting them at the same time as the gens were swapped did not help. Making sales-derived feedback useless and new design approaches coming online is the perfect storm. What would take a company 5 years to realize will now be a 10 odd years journey. If it is even possible.

IMO the only solution is to vote with out feet.

Getting the tools which were made by the old guard while still available (looking at you, BS 75 and HL 850!) and going non-Festool where no (proper) Festools are around.

Correct me if I'm wrong [member=61254]mino[/member] but I believe that both the BS75 and HL 850 were existing designs from Holz-Her, a company that had it's handheld power tools department taken over by Festool and thus were never designed by Festool in the first place. I found a picture of the belt sander, but I'm not so sure about the HL850 anymore.

wpz

 

[elfick]

Has anyone done a size comparison between the CXS, CXS 12, CXS 18, and maybe the C 18 for good measure? The CXS 12 in the video above seems huge compared to my CXS.

 

[mino]

Correct me if I'm wrong [member=61254]mino[/member] but I believe that both the BS75 and HL 850 were existing designs from Holz-Her, a company that had it's handheld power tools department taken over by Festool and thus were never designed by Festool in the first place. I found a picture of the belt sander, but I'm not so sure about the HL850 anymore.

wpz

Correct. but those are *also* the prime example of something the "old guard" let be, not attempting to "improve", for decades. They _understood_ Festool lacked the know-how to make "better" version of these but had a lot of options on how to mess it up.

The key property of an experienced engineer/designer comes not from how good one is at making great things. It is how humble one is in understading how easily things can get horribly wrong. Without it being noticeable before too late.

I am an ICT guy.
The difference between senior/experienced architects and junior/mediocre ones is not how often either produce great stuff but how seldom the senior ones produce disasters.

What I see at Festool from the outside is a lack of senior design leadership with experience and the balls to "send off" marketing/sales when they insist on non-obvious "stupids". Result is the company seemingly stopped listening to their customers and "listens" to the internet echo chamber. A common property of young people with just not enough clock on their carreers calling the shots. The only thing that can solve this is time. The folks need their failures to learn ho easy it is to mess up.

That besides. Those are the tools at the most danger of being destroyed while "improving as too long on the market". So are the prime candidates to buy while still around ... the RAS 115, LS 130, DR 20, the BS 105 and many more already fell to the first salvoes of that war "on old" the new guard seems to be waging.

 

[Cut Nail]

These are some specs I got off the UK website for Festool. For the CXS 12 2.5

Noise and vibration values
Fastening: Standards series EN
62841
Fastening: Uncertainty (noise) K
5.00 dB
Fastening: Uncertainty (vibration) K
1.50 m/s²
Fastening: A-weighted sound pressure level, LpA
75.00 dB(A)
Fastening: A-weighted sound power level, LWA
86.00 dB(A)
Fastening: Total vibration average, Ah
< 2,5 m/s2

The numbers that they state do not even seem close to what we are experiencing in the USA. Unless I’m not understanding the specs correctly.

 

[Lincoln]

Wow, that sounds like an air driven drill/driver.

 

[mrboult]

...
What an error by Festool.

New blood at the design department with no "old hags" around to slap them over their fingers. The 3rd gen SYS3 disaster was just a taster of what was to come.

My guess, it will take this generation bout a decade to learn how to design Festools. Now they are almost there with designing Tools. The Covid hitting them at the same time as the gens were swapped did not help. Making sales-derived feedback useless and new design approaches coming online is the perfect storm. What would take a company 5 years to realize will now be a 10 odd years journey. If it is even possible.

IMO the only solution is to vote with out feet.

Getting the tools which were made by the old guard while still available (looking at you, BS 75 and HL 850!) and going non-Festool where no (proper) Festools are around.

Not really sure i agree with you. Yes the new Systainer sizes are a face slappingly poor decision, and the volume of these new drills seem to be an issue. But the new compact table saw is jaw dropping, the TS60 is probably the new best track saw on the market (I’m not so sold on the Mafel myself) and . . Well i could go on raving about Festools that were designed or at least released over the last decade that i LOVE.

One big question i have with the new CXS 12. With the torque set to be comparable to the old CXS, does it sound ok?

 

[squall_line]

Has anyone done a size comparison between the CXS, CXS 12, CXS 18, and maybe the C 18 for good measure? The CXS 12 in the video above seems huge compared to my CXS.

Yes, some of those comparisons are posted earlier in this thread and in other threads about the CXS 18 here on the FOG.

I do wish [member=75561]masonwoodshop[/member] would have also tossed an old CXS10 on the video for comparison, but that CXS (not CSX) 12 sounds obnoxious even before comparison to the Bosch.

 

[tsmi243]

Has anyone done a size comparison between the CXS, CXS 12, CXS 18, and maybe the C 18 for good measure? The CXS 12 in the video above seems huge compared to my CXS.

Yes, some of those comparisons are posted earlier in this thread and in other threads about the CXS 18 here on the FOG.

I do wish [member=75561]masonwoodshop[/member] would have also tossed an old CXS10 on the video for comparison, but that CXS (not CSX) 12 sounds obnoxious even before comparison to the Bosch.

I have that same Bosch drill, and a TXS (original).  The TXS is quieter.  The brushless Bosch isn't really loud enough to complain about, but I can easily imagine another 10dB on top of that WOULD DEFINITELY be. 

The older Bosch brushed drill (PS21) is almost an exact match for the old TXS, sound-wise.  You can hear the difference in max RPM, but that's it.  Noise level and quality is almost identical if you match the revs. 

 

[slavi.yordanov]

I have a brushless Bosch flexiclick, and before seeing this thread, I haven’t even paid attention to it’s sound. Definitely not super loud or annoying. Actually quite satisfying sinking 3” framing screws on speed 2.

I also have the original CSX, and the CSX18 while it’s definitely louder, I haven’t noted it as not normal before this thread.

I’m on construction sites every day, and rarely use hearing protection when using tools around the house too (table saw, routers, grinders etc), so that definitely affects my threshold for what’s loud.

As far as Festool’s quality in recent times: my OSC18 died after 3 years of use (abuse), one 4.0Ah battery won’t charge, today I received the brand new Sys 3 tool bag (made in Germany) and one of the velcro strips has started to rip right out of the box.

I have had high expectations for this tool bag, but my $100 Chinese-made Milwaukee tool bag feels sturdier, with much nicer zippers, thicker fabric and pockets to accommodate different size tools. It also has zero rips after 2 years of everyday use.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cheese]

I watched this Festool Live CXS 12 review yesterday and Sedge intimated that the older CSX 10.8 will be discontinued, at around the 2:30 time stamp. Just a heads-up for those that prefer the original unit.
=PLpBJfh9Law-BeGyB5-IGNTLwt3-7-8IUy&t=3

 

[woodferret]

Time to go all pokemon and collect them all!

 

[Spandex]

I have to say, I think the noise has put me off buying this version. As a huge fan of the old CXS, but someone who hates having multiple chargers, this new CXS12 really appealed, but I think I’m happy to just wait and see if the new one gets a midlife refresh to address the noise issue.

Might try and find another 10.2v CXS (or maybe a TXS for a bit of variety) to keep me going.