Upcoming CXS / TXS 18

[Bencan]

Anyone buy the cxs18? Curious to hear how it is, would like to consolidate more towards the festool 18v platform for there is not much info out there on this current drill

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[Mr Speaker]

Update. Festool is kind enough to take the discussion out of it and I can return the CXS 18. I measured a bunch of equipment and confirmed that  the CXS 18 is just louder. It is what it does. I think the issue is solvable though, so I will be looking out for hardware version 2.

I can also confirm the rumors that the CXS 12 is coming. I held one in my hand today. Alas the drive frequency is the same as the 18 V version, so the sound produced is the same. The battery can be charged by the standard charger and the size and weight are perfect, even better than the CXS 18. It is the same size as the legacy CXS. Setting the max torque to about makes this tool acceptable in noise levels btw. So there is a workaround. Coming in september.

Many thanks for sharing all information and measurements with us here. Can you please clarify the following: "Setting the max torque to about makes this tool acceptable in noise levels btw." There seem to be something missing in the sentence. Do you mean adjusting the electronic clutch? And by acceptable, would that be in the region of the old CXS?

Also according to Festools official numbers, the CXS/TXS 12 is even worse than the the CXS/TXS 18 when it comes to noise. Can you confirm that?

Best regards

Marcus

The measurements I did on the  CXS 12 were limited because i could only do a quick measurement on the model the Festool guy had with him. My impression was that sound production was about the same. Keeping the torque setting below 6 seems to avoid the PWM frequency below the point where the noise jumps up a lot. The difference is in the order of 8 dB. My impression is that the drive electronics need a redesign and that it is not mechanical. But i did not take the unit apart. And even below that setting, it is still much louder than the CXS I have. I bought two of the old models as they are going EOL and I will be carrying two chargers.

 

[Mr Speaker]

Update. Festool is kind enough to take the discussion out of it and I can return the CXS 18. I measured a bunch of equipment and confirmed that  the CXS 18 is just louder. It is what it does. I think the issue is solvable though, so I will be looking out for hardware version 2.

I can also confirm the rumors that the CXS 12 is coming. I held one in my hand today. Alas the drive frequency is the same as the 18 V version, so the sound produced is the same. The battery can be charged by the standard charger and the size and weight are perfect, even better than the CXS 18. It is the same size as the legacy CXS. Setting the max torque to about makes this tool acceptable in noise levels btw. So there is a workaround. Coming in september.

Many thanks for sharing all information and measurements with us here. Can you please clarify the following: "Setting the max torque to about makes this tool acceptable in noise levels btw." There seem to be something missing in the sentence. Do you mean adjusting the electronic clutch? And by acceptable, would that be in the region of the old CXS?

Also according to Festools official numbers, the CXS/TXS 12 is even worse than the the CXS/TXS 18 when it comes to noise. Can you confirm that?

Best regards

Marcus

The torque setting needs to be below about 6, the rpms below about 2/3 of max. There is a point where the pwm drive electronics base frequency jumps to a frequency where the produced noise is a lot, like 8 dB higher. Below that, it is still a lot noisier than the CXS 10.

 

[thudchkr]

Anyone buy the cxs18? Curious to hear how it is, would like to consolidate more towards the festool 18v platform for there is not much info out there on this current drill

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I purchased the CXS 18 and gave it a good workout yesterday. It worked well, but there were functions that I wish were more like the original CXS. many have mentioned the noise level, but that was not something that I noticed at all yesterday, even when working inside cabinet boxes.

Things I’m not enamored of include the torque setting arrangement and how the drill functions when applying that. The small dial used to set torque sits inside the handle area and my older eyes find it difficult to read what setting it is at. I prefer the ring up near the chuck on the body of the drill as it’s much easier to determine what torque you have it set to.

The drill uses internal electronics to set the torque when driving fasteners and in use the drill stops while providing an electronic chirp. I like the old ratcheting sound when the torque setting was reached and I often wonder if I’ve reached my desired setting with the new CXS, causing me to hit it several times again. (I also have one dog who gets kind of freaked out bu that electronic chirp.). I’ll probably get used to it, but I’m not there yet.

I’m overall happy with the purchase but I still like the original so much I just ordered a second one and will probably carry both the CXS 18 and the original CXS on jobs in the future.

 

[squall_line]

The drill uses internal electronics to set the torque when driving fasteners and in use the drill stops while providing an electronic chirp. I like the old ratcheting sound when the torque setting was reached and I often wonder if I’ve reached my desired setting with the new CXS, causing me to hit it several times again. (I also have one dog who gets kind of freaked out bu that electronic chirp.). I’ll probably get used to it, but I’m not there yet.

I’m overall happy with the purchase but I still like the original so much I just ordered a second one and will probably carry both the CXS 18 and the original CXS on jobs in the future.

All of Festool's brushless drills have behaved this way for a very long time.  I have a 10+ year old C12 with the same stop-beep.

If you've never had one of their larger drills, I could see how it would be tough to get used to.  The "ratchet" style torque limit still allows the bit to turn, which is not what you actually want to happen in that scenario.

 

[Marcus_B]

Update. Festool is kind enough to take the discussion out of it and I can return the CXS 18. I measured a bunch of equipment and confirmed that  the CXS 18 is just louder. It is what it does. I think the issue is solvable though, so I will be looking out for hardware version 2.

I can also confirm the rumors that the CXS 12 is coming. I held one in my hand today. Alas the drive frequency is the same as the 18 V version, so the sound produced is the same. The battery can be charged by the standard charger and the size and weight are perfect, even better than the CXS 18. It is the same size as the legacy CXS. Setting the max torque to about makes this tool acceptable in noise levels btw. So there is a workaround. Coming in september.

Many thanks for sharing all information and measurements with us here. Can you please clarify the following: "Setting the max torque to about makes this tool acceptable in noise levels btw." There seem to be something missing in the sentence. Do you mean adjusting the electronic clutch? And by acceptable, would that be in the region of the old CXS?

Also according to Festools official numbers, the CXS/TXS 12 is even worse than the the CXS/TXS 18 when it comes to noise. Can you confirm that?

Best regards

Marcus

The measurements I did on the  CXS 12 were limited because i could only do a quick measurement on the model the Festool guy had with him. My impression was that sound production was about the same. Keeping the torque setting below 6 seems to avoid the PWM frequency below the point where the noise jumps up a lot. The difference is in the order of 8 dB. My impression is that the drive electronics need a redesign and that it is not mechanical. But i did not take the unit apart. And even below that setting, it is still much louder than the CXS I have. I bought two of the old models as they are going EOL and I will be carrying two chargers.

Thank you for the clarification! I will not get the CSX 12 or 18 at the moment and wait and see if there will be an update addressing this issue.

 

[festwerker]

What is the main difference between the CXS 12 and CXS 18? Spec numbers of both seem about the same on festool's site. They both weigh 0.7 kg, they have the same torque/RPM for both gears...

 

[Bencan]

What is the main difference between the CXS 12 and CXS 18? Spec numbers of both seem about the same on festool's site. They both weigh 0.7 kg, they have the same torque/RPM for both gears...

Specs aside the cxs12 has a much smaller grip area than the old version meaning that you’ll grab is occasionally/often and hit the wheel adjusting the torque. The cxs18 is a much better buy, slightly larger grip making the overall feel a lot better. Nevermind you can buy it as a bare tool and it doesn’t need a new set of batteries to make it functional

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[mino]

Specs aside the cxs12 has a much smaller grip area than the old version meaning that you’ll grab is occasionally/often and hit the wheel adjusting the torque. The cxs18 is a much better buy, slightly larger grip making the overall feel a lot better. Nevermind you can buy it as a bare tool and it doesn’t need a new set of batteries to make it functional

To be clear, the "smaller" grip is mostly aligned with the original CXS ... so it is an advantage for those who do not put fingers "inside" the grip for fine work.

The CXS 18, with its bigger grip, is more of a "lighter C 18 alternative" than a CXS one.

One can look at the CXS as "the overpowered and noisier version of the CXS" while the CXS 18 is more of an "lighter but underpowered and noisier" version of the C18 Li.

It is worth mentioninng that the CXS12 is almost the same weight as the CXS18 bare tool. But. This changes with battery, making the CXS 12 significantly lighter, comparable to the original CXS. The 12V packs have two less cells and are a bit smaller and it shows.

 

[Bencan]

Specs aside the cxs12 has a much smaller grip area than the old version meaning that you’ll grab is occasionally/often and hit the wheel adjusting the torque. The cxs18 is a much better buy, slightly larger grip making the overall feel a lot better. Nevermind you can buy it as a bare tool and it doesn’t need a new set of batteries to make it functional

To be clear, the "smaller" grip is mostly aligned with the original CXS ... so it is an advantage for those who do not put fingers "inside" the grip for fine work.

The CXS 18, with its bigger grip, is more of a "lighter C 18 alternative" than a CXS one.

One can look at the CXS as "the overpowered and noisier version of the CXS" while the CXS 18 is more of an "lighter but underpowered and noisier" version of the C18 Li.

It is worth mentioninng that the CXS12 is almost the same weight as the CXS18 bare tool. But. This changes with battery, making the CXS 12 significantly lighter, comparable to the original CXS. The 12V packs have two less cells and are a bit smaller and it shows.

The grip on the new cxs is significantly smaller than the original cxs. It still works ok you’ll just bump the dial with you fingers which is a real nuisance. The noise factor is a non issue for me as wearing hearing protection is a must when working on the tools

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[mino]

I think you are right, it is probably just the way I grab it.

I have big hands so do not put more than two fingers "inside" of the C-style drills even my C12. Just the middle one on trigper plus one, leaving the pinkie on side. I am grabbing the drill mostly with just the thumb and index finger.

When I held the CXS 12 it seemed the same-ish size to the original likely because with back side of the grip is similar height.

With CXS 18, it is heavier on the bottom and longer, so it is harder (but still not as hard as a C12/C18) to hold it "my C way". It is funny that even here the consensus is that the CXS 12 is a downgrade whiel the CXS 18 is more like smaller C18. Heh.

 

[Bencan]

I think you are right, it is probably just the way I grab it.

I have big hands so do not put more than two fingers "inside" of the C-style drills even my C12. Just the middle one on trigper plus one, leaving the pinkie on side. I am grabbing the drill mostly with just the thumb and index finger.

When I held the CXS 12 it seemed the same-ish size to the original likely because with back side of the grip is similar height.

With CXS 18, it is heavier on the bottom and longer, so it is harder (but still not as hard as a C12/C18) to hold it "my C way". It is funny that even here the consensus is that the CXS 12 is a downgrade whiel the CXS 18 is more like smaller C18. Heh.

Also large hands, I find sometimes you just grab the drill when reaching for it with 4 fingers inside the C area making it a real nuisance that wasn’t an issue with the previous version. The previous version was better overall sadly

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[festwerker]

I think you are right, it is probably just the way I grab it.

I have big hands so do not put more than two fingers "inside" of the C-style drills even my C12. Just the middle one on trigper plus one, leaving the pinkie on side. I am grabbing the drill mostly with just the thumb and index finger.

When I held the CXS 12 it seemed the same-ish size to the original likely because with back side of the grip is similar height.

With CXS 18, it is heavier on the bottom and longer, so it is harder (but still not as hard as a C12/C18) to hold it "my C way". It is funny that even here the consensus is that the CXS 12 is a downgrade whiel the CXS 18 is more like smaller C18. Heh.

Haha. So you spiderman grip it, with your pinkie and index fingers extended and pressing the trigger with the middle to shoot your web? I'll try that. Sounds delicate.

I think I need to drop in to a local dealer to check out the two grips now. I really like the old CXS, and would like a more powerful drill for the times when I need it. I don't need a full blown super drill for most of what I do. I have a heavy Milwaukee M18 for when I need it, but I'd rather not use it that often.

 

[FestitaMakool]

Holding a drill..
Well it’s not always the most obvious way that may be the most comfortable or the most ergonomic.

I learned this from my cousin who’s a skilled and experienced electrician. They have been using the Festool C12-18 series for many years. They rarely hold the drill the "right" way..
Now I’m totally smitten by holding my drills the "wrong" way.

Try it, for many applications you’ll get inline force with your fore arm to drive screws easily.
It’s especially useful low down and high up.

Some photos with 3 different sizes and drill designs: (Including the CXS 18)

[attachimg=1] [attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3] [attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5] [attachimg=6]

 

[mino]

Haha. So you spiderman grip it, with your pinkie and index fingers extended and pressing the trigger with the middle to shoot your web? I'll try that. Sounds delicate.
...

Heh, is even worse, was looking at how I do it after this thread and found that with the heavier C12 - I tend to put even my ring finger one the plastic *above* the trigger, use the middle alongside index opposing the thumb to hold the drill, pinkie managing the trigger. Spider man style indeed! LOL.

I think I slowly moved to this grip naturally to use all "strong" fingers to hold the (relatively heavy) C12 drill while the only one left is pinkie to controll the trigger ... with the super-soft trigger these drills have it works fine. With CXS I use the ring one on trigger most of the time (without thinking) as it is how it "fits" for me.

ADD:
I remembered to use the middle finger when writing it - as that is how I used it initially, but apparently I have involuntarily assigned all available finger power to spider-man it ... not having the glue jets kinda sucks with this.
/s

Now I know why when I hand my C12 to friends on a project, they just cannot use it - they try to grip it like a T-style drill and it just does not work. I think at least for the big C series drills they actually require a big-ish hand to work well with the "hand in line with drill bit" approach the C handles are designed for.

 

[FestitaMakool]

My experience too Mino, with the C18. It’s weight and shape makes for a haha, spider like grip.
Holding it upside down can even satisfy t-grip users [big grin]

All aside, it’s a really beautifully performing machine with a really nice and pleasant sound to it..

 

[CumminsDiesel]

Can anyone measure the dB sound on the M12 FUEL™ installation drill/driver?

 

[HighlandMarine]

Can anyone measure the dB sound on the M12 FUEL™ installation drill/driver?

I could try later today with an app when I get to the boat yard.

 

[CumminsDiesel]

Can anyone measure the dB sound on the M12 FUEL™ installation drill/driver?

I could try later today with an app when I get to the boat yard.

Thanks!

 

[CumminsDiesel]

Anyone !?!