Using saw guide with different blades

[grgrant2]

Hi All,

I just bought a TS55, several rails and a 28 tooth blade to use for larger rips.  Measuring the kerf on the blades, it looks like 0.0875" for the 48 tooth and 0.099" for the 28 tooth.  In theory, once I use the 28 tooth, it would seem I would have to allow for the ~0.006" error anytime I go back to the 48 tooth.  Other systems have interchangeable chip guards to deal with this but Festool's can only be replaced, not interchanged.

I would appreciate hearing thoughts on this and how others deal with it ... 

 

[Dan Lyke]

I don't know, since I only have one blade, but how much of that kerf is blade thickness and how much is offset from the inside edge of the blade? If the difference is in thickness, not in tooth extension beyond the edge of the blade, then in theory you shouldn't need to move the strip.

However, I'm just engaging in male answer syndrome, I don't have an answer or the resources to measure it, so I'd be interested in what answers you come up with!

 

[semenza]

Hi,

    The kerf width is listed on the blade packages and in the catalog.  The Fine blade and the 28 thooth Universal blade both have a 2.2mm kerf, and based on your measurement being so close I don't think that you will have a problem using them interchangebly on the rail. .006 is about 1/150th of an inch. You can probably get that much variation with a little left or right side pressure on the saw handle. Or even when making the alignment with your mark.  BTW the Panther dedicated ripping blade will chew up the splinter guard and will cause enough difference to have to take it into account when aligning the rail with your mark.
    Oh yeah, the best way to deal with it is not changing the splinter gaurd. You simply need a complete set of rails for each blade!!! ;D

Seth

 

[grgrant2]

Thanks Seth, I had a gut feeling the small size difference wouldn't make a real world difference but wanted to hear opinions from those who had used the system.  Thanks for pointing out that Festool lists the kerfs as the same.  Perhaps when slight variation of tooth mounting around the circumference of the blade is accounted for there isn't really any difference in the effective kerf? ... even though there is a consistent 0.0115" difference in the width of the carbide teeth themselves.

BTW, I deliberated hard B4 buying a 106" rail for long cuts versus joining two 55"ers  :'( so the thought of dedicated rails for each blade  ...

Geoff

 

[woodshopdemos]

Geoff,
  You can get crazy with the theeory. Go cut wood.  I am not trying to be facetious, but I have tried every blade and still am on first rubber splinter guard and getting perfect cuts.  I know the kerf diffferences and the teeth differences...but I always look at the cut only.
  By the way, there are a number of pages on my website of blade slection and the perfect cut. Here is the Festool sub-menu:  http://www.woodshopdemos.com/men-fes.htm
There are some 125 pages of how-to there.
 

 

[grgrant2]

Nice website John, I'll be checking it out  ... and yes I'll get ta makin' toothpicks outta logs!

Geoff

 

[Michael Kellough]

Geoff,

... I have tried every blade and still am on first rubber splinter guard and getting perfect cuts.  I know the kerf diffferences and the teeth differences...but I always look at the cut only...

Have you used the Panther blade with those rails John? If so, your statement is hard to believe. On the other hand, I'm still using original rubber too but I've moved it outboard a number of times, in particular, after each use of the Panther blade. After using the Panther blade your razor blade trick would have be upgraded to the hatchet trick on my guide rail. 

 

[woodshopdemos]

Michael,
  Yes, Panther is standard rip here and long rail used with it. I dont know why your setup is different than mine. I will have to watch it closely.  In practise, I use the long rails for the first and 2nd cuts of panel only and switch to short rail from that point on.  But I do inspect these cuts.

 

[semenza]

Michael,
   Yes, Panther is standard rip here and long rail used with it. I dont know why your setup is different than mine. I will have to watch it closely.  In practise, I use the long rails for the first and 2nd cuts of panel only and switch to short rail from that point on.  But I do inspect these cuts.

  So the long rail always gets used with the panther? And the shorter rails with a different blade?  If so that makes sense because the rails match the  kerf widths. But I have found that if I use the panther and then go back to the fine blade on the same rail that I have to compensate the measurement or tap the rail back off the mark a little. If measuring from left to right, placing the rail at/on the mark will get me 1/64th to 1/32nd added to the measurement when I make the cut.  Because the splinter guard got trimmed back a bit by the panther blade.

Seth

 

[woodshopdemos]

Seth,
  I am sorry to not be clearer. I use the Panther to rip long boards,,,usally 6 to 8ft in length. When I do panel cutting, I use the long rail but have switched to the cabinetmakers blade....the panel being 3/4" ply or white melamine particle core board. I usually cut the long direction of the 4 x 8. The first cut removes the 1/2" edge to remove chipping that occured during shipping and handle. The next cut is along the 8' direction and is usually the dimension for height of the side/back/side. The rest of the cuts are usually across the panel and I use a shorter guide rail.

 

[semenza]

          Hmmmm interesting, John. And you don't have any trouble with the size being off a little?  Makes me wonder what I am doing differently.  Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Seth

 

[Mirko]

I have the original rubber on my rails.

I have cut miles of material with them.

The rubber gets nibbled away...

Its a fact, the "Panther" takes the biggest bite.

I know I'm not alone... honest

Mirko

 

[Michael Kellough]

...The rubber gets nibbled away...

Its a fact, the "Panther" takes the biggest bite...

Mirko, we know the rubber erodes, the question is,
how do you compensate for that?

Do you do it by eye, or do you move the rubber over?

 

[Mirko]

Moving the rubber is a waste of time for me, example. I just recently set my saw up with more "toe in" I made my first test cut on 3/4 melamine, I cut through both the rubber and wood and the cut was the best i've seen in months. I had used my 18 tooth blade by mistake, I was pleasantly surprised. "Well I should put my 60 tooth in there" I thought, changed blade and cut again... Ahhh @#$% chipped melamine!

When perfect cuts on melamine are required I use my 150$ melamine blade and 2500$ table saw, its a "no brainer" perfect cuts top and bottom.
When I use my guide rail on melamine I cut good face down, and allow for the deteriorated guide rail rubber.
Cutting veneer and plywood is fine, this is where the system really shines, I'm used to the offset of the rubber now.

So, in a way the condition of the rubber becomes redundant, so I don't fret over it.
Everyone has there own opinion of what a respectable cut should look like, I'm curious to see up close, Woodshopdemo's testimony of perfect cuts.

John, pics please...or it didn't happen ;D

Mirko

 

[woodshopdemos]

These aren't recent but ones I shot when I was investigating all blades with white melamine.

Here is the section of the website covering this:http://www.woodshopdemos.com/fes-61.htm

 

[Mirko]

John,
Thanks for posting, however the picture quality is poor but I can still see chipping, all those cuts with the exception of the shorter one, would not get past my quality control.
I've had a hard time getting the perfect cuts that I'm after with the plunge saw. I turn to my table saw for seamless melamine cuts, perfect cuts to me are free of chips and are razor sharp.

Mirko

 

[Dan Lyke]

I've only used melamine for a router table and a sink in a utility shed, so didn't spend a whole lot of time experimenting, just realized that I didn't have my technique down yet. I got a few good cuts with the stock blade, but the lack of chipping wasn't consistent enough to use on anything I cared about.

Has anyone tried taping the cuts? Seems to me that a strip of masking tape along the cut line might do the trick.

 

[bruegf]

Mirko,

What blade do you use on your TS for high quality cuts in Melamine?  I just bought one of these in hopes of improving the cut quality for some melamine covered cabinets for my laundry room I'm getting ready to build.  Haven't tried it yet, so we'll see.
http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/12037

Fred

 

[Mirko]

Hi Fred,

I usually use Dimar brand blades, but my newest blade is a freud melamine or triple chip blade, it was expensive because I have a 12" table saw.
Really, the secret to good cutting is keep the blade clean (I use hot water nylon brush) and run the blade at just the right hight. You want to minimize the downward bite, at the same time keeping the blade high enough as to not blow out the top of your cut. You have to find the sweet spot.

To identify a real triple chip the teeth should be square, but every second tooth should have its tip chamfered, I haven't seen a Festool blade like this yet, although I haven't looked very hard.

Mirko

 

[Dave Ronyak]

John,
Thanks for posting, however the picture quality is poor but I can still see chipping, all those cuts with the exception of the shorter one, would not get past my quality control.
I've had a hard time getting the perfect cuts that I'm after with the plunge saw. I turn to my table saw for seamless melamine cuts, perfect cuts to me are free of chips and are razor sharp.

Mirko

John and Mirko,

I note the "shorter one" appears to not be all the way through the melamine sheet, which means the tooth position relative to the unchipped top surface was different than for the other cuts.  Someone suggested setting the saw to make a very shallow cut and climb cutting to score the melamine, then resetting to full depth to cut through the sheet.  Does that work or merely increase the risk of chipping?  I have very little experience with melamine and other laminates.

Dave R.