Vac Sys systainer Style Vacuum Pump - What Pump is Used?

[tfrazzled]

Does anyone have one of the vac sys vacuum pump units that is built into a systainer (sold outside the US).  I've been scouring the internet to see if I can figure out what pump they are using because I like the form factor and want to build a US friendly (110v) version.  I'm mostly curios to know if that pump happens to have a dual voltage motor.  If so, a US friendly version would be easy to build.  If not, that pump head might be able to be married up with a different motor to achieve the same goal.

So far, I've only found one picture that shows the pump, but it's way too low resolution  to be useful.

 

[JINRO]

Search for "Excel 3" or "Excel 5" and you will see a thread with information to build your own which is far better than Festool pump.

 

[MikeGE]

I don't know if this will help, but here are photos of my VAC-SYS pump in the Systainer.  The pump is attached to a Hanning Elektro-Werke motor and I didn't see any information on the pump.  The motor is not dual voltage, but is dual frequency, so it would work in the U.S. if you connect it to a 220-240V line.

 

[tfrazzled]

I already have a double diaphragm pump like the excel 5 that is part of my workbench and works great for vacuum holding, bagging, etc.  I'm mostly interested in the low height form factor and systainer stacking of this vac sys vp configuration for portability.  I'm not looking to buy the Festool unit (can't really do that anyway unless you're willing to fork over major gold to a scalper now), rather I'm interested in the pump that they used as I'm thinking about building something similar of my own into a systainer.  I'm guessing that Festool didn't design and build their own vacuum pump, so I was hoping to figure out what they used.

 

[tfrazzled]

[member=70363]MikeGE[/member] Thank you!  That was exactly what I was looking for.  its a dual voltage motor, but its 220/440v.  That tells me if I want to build one, I can now find the motor frame spec so I know what options will mate up with that pump head.

 

[tfrazzled]

If anyone else in interested, Those photos helped me figure out that the pump is actually made by Busch.  I'm pretty sure its an SV1003D.  They definitely went with a top of the line pump manufacturer, not surprising.  Hopefully that helps folks on here order the pump rebuild kits and save a bunch of money in due time.  The carbon vane(s) in these oilless rotary vane pumps do eventually erode away.  It also means that if anyone wants to build a like for like 120v US version, you're in luck.  You could buy a few of the spare parts from Festool, like the molded liner and electrical / air interface parts and then machine out your own systainer for it.

 

[Chainring]

Paul Marcel (halfinchshy on YT) is in the US and somehow got his hands on one. I'm guessing it's the 120V version.

 

[Cheese]

Here's a SECO SV 1003 D on eBay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/363511051186

 

[PaulMarcel]

I dug out my Vac-Sys pump to take photos of the pump itself, but there's a bar blocking me from removing the cover padding. I can remove the bar with some work, but I had real work to finish first haha! I'll see if I can get internal photos later. I wouldn't be surprised if it is the same pump sold in Germany, but a dual-voltage model. If it can run better at 220V, I have a socket right next to it  [scratch chin]

 

[tfrazzled]

It looks like there are two versions sold in the UK, one is a 120v version and the other a 240v version.  The GB 120 version would be the one to have for use in the US.  I actually just got that SECO pump mentioned on eBay.  My only concern with it is going to be cooling.  I need to set up a temp probe and mock up the airflow to make sure it stays cool.  The 1003D has a lot more heatsinking surface area on the pump head and motor.  This setup might need an additional fan in the systainer for cooling.

As for dual voltage, I stand corrected.  I did some more digging and while I thought these were dual voltage, they are not.  The pumps/motors appear to have specific part numbers and winding configurations for each voltage, so its not as simple as changing them between a series / parallel winding configuration to switch between 110/120v and 220/240v.

[member=3513]PaulMarcel[/member], there wouldn't be a notable difference between 110v and 220v performance on these things, they aren't large motors, high power draw, and don't see a lot of hard loading.  All having a 220v version would really accomplish is making it a pain to find an appropriate outlet for it if you ever use it outside the shop. 

 

[MikeGE]

I dug out my Vac-Sys pump to take photos of the pump itself, but there's a bar blocking me from removing the cover padding. I can remove the bar with some work, but I had real work to finish first haha! I'll see if I can get internal photos later. I wouldn't be surprised if it is the same pump sold in Germany, but a dual-voltage model. If it can run better at 220V, I have a socket right next to it  [scratch chin]

If your pump is in the same Systainer as mine, Festool did not make it easy to remove.  The solid bar is long enough to prevent pushing in the latches on the black plastic cap that goes through the side of the Systainer.

I wedged a screwdriver between the solid foam insert and the inside of the Systainer on both ends of the bar, and then used a pick to force the bar to one side.  This created enough space at the end of the bar to press the latch in and remove the cap.  After pulling the bar out, the other cap comes out easy and the insert can be lifted out of the way.  I didn't bother removing the strap that ties the insert to the Systainer.

 

[Ebuwan]

I know not exactly related, same brand of motor is used on my Doscornio vac clamp

 

[Ebuwan]

Search for "Excel 3" or "Excel 5" and you will see a thread with information to build your own which is far better than Festool pump.

Eh, the Festool and Doscornio are all German made, Excel made in China?

 

[tfrazzled]

"Better" is a bit of a garbage term, as it requires one to define the criteria.  Comparing diaphragm pumps to rotary vane pumps is kinda like saying this hammer makes a terrible screwdriver.  Yes they both install fasteners, but they are also tailored to different applications.  Power consumption, flow rate, ultimate vacuum level achieved, noise, contamination tolerance, ease of service, build quality, form factor, and a whole host of other criteria all come into play.

I wasn't wanting this thread to turn into another "Why would you want X when you can get this other thing that someone thinks is better instead".  That is why I qualified what I was looking for.  The vac pump in a small systainer has the features I'm looking for in a pack out workholding vacuum pump, so recreating that is the focus. Busch makes great oilless rotary vane pumps, but I'd say that my $160 Chinese made diaphragm vac pump that's been in the shop chugging away for almost a decade now is also a good pump.  Its been reasonably quiet and perfectly reliable.

 

[Ebuwan]

ah, fair points, wasn't meaning to get into an argument.

FWIW, my Doscornio pump, which looks identical (except mine being 120v) to the Systainer pump. Even with the carrying mount it's attached to, would set right into a systainer. If i just make a plywood base, some rubber washers and attached it to that, i could get it in an even shorter systainer.

I do plan on doing this, so it can live in the middle of a stack, would be super handy.

Also, Correct on Busch, mine came with a instruction book from Busch, all in German (so I can't read it, lol)

 

[tfrazzled]

Looks like a nice little configuration.  Some initial testing looks like that pump I got on ebay will do the job without any significant heat issues, but I'm a fan of a little engineering overkill, so I'll put a low noise fan with it as well.  I'll take some pictures when I have this thing built and make any models / 3D print files I create along the way available to anyone that would want them.