Vacume wheels and cord maring wood floors / Flooring contractor vacume issues

ward

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Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
49
Does anyone else have the experience of the wheels of their Festool vacuums and cord leaving black mars on floors? While I've learned to be very careful (and so have minimized problems) I would certainly prefer the vacuum wheels and cord were non marring (like my Italian Ceno, or even my pacific steemex has non marking grey caster wheels,maybe they are interchangeable ? they also rotate better than the directional wheels on the Festool vacs. But nowhere as quiet or clean.  Each has it's benifits i know, but the black marks and even dents if the vac is pulled sideways was an unpleasant surprise with a otherwise phenomenal machine.

I've taken to using my Midi on all my finish coats of jobs under 1000 square feet. It pleases me to no end how well a quiet small vacume performs with the sanders and as a finish coat capable machine. when i tack after vacuming i get almost no dust at all, very very impresive. Knowing that the moter does not blow dust out is a joy.

I did / do also have a intermitint problem with my swithch on the CT22, it's a "kick start" sometimes it works, sometimes it needs a tap. . . 

I opened it up under my reps direction (GREAT SUPPORT ZACK) and got a guided tour of the wireing and i think it helped.  I am very impressed after taking the machine apart at how well it's sealed and insulated and engineered. It's fun to know what all those little knock out's on the front are for now, although i do wish the vac had a bag sensor like my Mielie. It does have the capacity although it's not configured that way for the US market, I understand that the European model senses the hose diameter and tells you when the bag or filter needs changing. I'm so charmed my my Midi i have not used the CT22 since i toyed with it. I was surprised that the CT22 does not have an filter on the air intake / bypass circuit. The intake housing is stamped "filter" but none was there. I cut up a Mielie intake filter and folded it a few times and am looking forward to an even cleaner housing. I actually bought a Mielie because it had better water lift and cfm than the Fein. While it's a little small for much commercial work, it was actually less expensive than the Fein with the carpet tools added on. I also like the fact that the Miele tools all fit the Festool, I can take the Mile wand or attachments and the fit the stock hose on the ct & midi and of course being metal or carbon impregnated, they are static free!

Back to the  "issue".  I guess i could change out the wheels, but buy that time I've dropped another $200 bucks between wheels and cord, not to mention time. I dislike covering the wheels with blue tape (tacky) and yet don't know what else to do (paint them)? I mean if i'm super careful, i don't have problems, but training my techs to be considerate with the vacuum is asking allot, I'm more concerned about them getting the floor clean. and the old 80/20 rule is so true. I think they will learn after scraping out the mars, but on a stain job, they don't show till I'm staining or finishing so it's an unpleasant surprise.

A gray non marking cord will cost me a fair bit, not a bad idea at the same time, to up the gauge on the vac's cable to 12 considering the load i may apply using if i hook up a 15 amp floor edger to the vacuum, after replacing the on board plug (faulty), I'm more than a little concerned, while the power cable is sufficient for use with a orbital sander or the relatively short term load of a saw, the interior wiring connections do not appear as if they are designed for constant 15 amp load on the switch circuit. The interior wiring is not more than 14 gauge or even 16 to my eyd, please correct me if anyone knows.

I do not imagine such a load is good for the vacuum or my edger in the long term with the existing wiring, so while it's a little disappointing, using a separate circuit and manual switch, i think in the long term I'm better off if i don't up the wiring harness on the CT22 for use with my edger. 

Any other floor sanders out there with experience with this issue? Just out of curiosity, how many of the fog members are hardwood flooring contractors? Can / has anyone ever done a poll by trade or specialty? somehow i imagine there are allot of cabinet makers and finish carpenters, but hey let's find out ! All supportive suggestions or commiseration is appreciated.

Thanks
 
A large rubber band  stretched over the wheels will work if you can find them that big. They make large rubber bands like that for people to use as clamps, possibly those will work. The large rubber bands I got from Rockler were just not large enough.

I had the same issue and its not a simple matter to just change out those rear wheels!
 
Ward i too sand floors and wrapped (5mm thick) self adhesive felt around both rear wheels.Not the total width but just the outer section  ( 3/4") of the tread.Its been there now for 10 years!
I don't have the marking with the cord but you could change it out easily with another of your cables.(seeing you've already looked inside.)Black always marks.
I don't use the festool vacuums for my edgeing as i need a unit that will run continuously.The domel motors (used in festool vacuums ) and Ametek motors are universal brushed motors and will burn out in no time with this type of use.Make sure you let it cool down every 20mins.SR motors are better but also expensive.
I use the CT for vacuum between coats.
Regenerative blowers are the best(imo) for dust collection in floor sanding.
ossi
 
Thanks so much for the input / tips and insight. I had a bad feeling about trying the ct for my edger mostly because after looking at the wiring harness i can see it's simply not designed for such a load. The motor issue is more than i actually comprehend, would you be so kind as to explain the abbreviation you used?

I guess i could pick up a Clarke vacuum that is fairly inexpensive here for use with the edger, it comes as an option with the 16" Clarke "dustless buffer that I've decided to go for, i can only imagine the joy of screening a floor without a respirator, but my friends who own them tell me it's so. . .

Good tools are kinda like knowledge or surrender, you become vaguely aware of it long before it's embraced. . . Only when doing so does one reap the benefits.  I bought the domino for a project (joining some gonsolo alves (Tigerwood) stair treads and landing strip with Wenge inlays, and my friend who really turned me onto festools told me to forget trying to do stair tread joints with a saw, i have to cut them first then run the edges to be glued through a joiner, he insists that any sawblade, even with a feeder witll leave marks in thick hardwood and that i'll get better, tighter, stronger joints with a joiner and glue alone without the domino's.

It's fascinating to note of course that the commercially made stair treads don't have biscuits or domino's, simply perfectly square and flat glue joints that i am given to understand, are often stronger than the wood they join. I'm not unhappy with the domino, but see now the possibility of using a joiner for my larger glue ups and leave the domino for the smaller trim joints in the field, probably what it was designed for. . 

I must say my Hummel ( by Eugene Lagler) another German, seems even better engineered for long term heavy use than the festools, much bigger motors, internal wiring harness, capacitors, etc.

I'm really happy using my Midi for vacuuming small (75 square meter jobs).  Just out of curiosity did you upgrade to a larger hose?

Thanks for all the help guys, i'll try the felt and am just being careful with the cord. I like the felt, it's "elegant" and rules for vacuuming on my wand, nothing works better as far as i've tried. . .

Do you have any suggestions for when and how to knock down the grain after bleaching ? I'm in the middle of refinishing a 5" maple floor with a lot of brown maple in it. I'm going to bleach it twice and let dry for at least 24 hours then stain with a mix of Glitaz brand stains. But i have to smooth the floor out after staining before finishing with water borne catalyzed poly. . . after another 36 hour dry time (it's hot and dry here, i hope that's enough. . . People rarely understand how important cure time is on stain and finishes. . . as you well know i imagine. . . .

I don't know whether to do it by hand, or with the buffer or the rotex with a purple abrasive pad (about a 400# i think) actually it's a maroon "conditioning" pad. I buy them 19" then after using them for between coats, cut them up to fit the rotex for cleaning etc, much cheaper than buying viles or such.
 
ossietim said:
I don't use the festool vacuums for my edgeing as i need a unit that will run continuously.The domel motors (used in festool vacuums ) and Ametek motors are universal brushed motors and will burn out in no time with this type of use.Make sure you let it cool down every 20mins.SR motors are better but also expensive.
I use the CT for vacuum between coats.
Regenerative blowers are the best(imo) for dust collection in floor sanding.
ossi

What?

I have had my Ct 33 for 2 1/2 to 3 years(I think) and run them continuously for 4 hours at a time almost every single day. Yesterday I ran one 4 hours straight turned it off for 3 minutes and turned it back on for another 3 hours. I do the same with my Fein vacs. Many times I have used both Festool and Fein for 8 hour days non stop other than a 30 minute lunch or to change the bag out(sometimes several times a day).

I never saw a floor I had to keep the vacs on for 3 hours straight. You are not going to burn out the motors on the Festool vacs.
As I found last week the worst that will happen is will the unit will automatically turn off if it gets to hot. That happened for the first time last week because I had a full bag.

For 500.00 and more these vacs better be able to take a beating and stay on all day and from my experience they do.
 
ARe you running your vacume attached to a floor sander? I must say ii'm not too impressed with my ct 22. The switch started going intermittent within the first 20 hours of use. . . spent hours trouble shooting it with my FT rep  (had to tap to start) today it crapped out totally, had to come home and get my midi. now i love the ct, when it works, the seal (from hose to bag) on the midi is a little sensitive, i found after a few hours the bag had slipped and the hepa filter was a mess. .. . cleaned it out and worked fine. . . Are you running the ct with an edger attached?  the cfm from the fan on a clarke super 7 is pretty high. . .  I don't even imagine for a second i could attach it to my hummel drum sander 0nly 200 mm (8") paper running at Ks rmp. . . I would like to run my ct with a 16" clarke dcs system I think it can handle that, but being "pushed by a output fan of a drum sander or edger is another use entirely, for starters i think i'd need a separator bag for the heavy dust, 50 sq. meters generates about 5 gallons of dust a pass. . . especially on the first 36 grit pass. . .

Please elaborate about your use for hours and what is attached to it.

Thanks!
 
nickao said:
A large rubber band  stretched over the wheels will work if you can find them that big. They make large rubber bands like that for people to use as clamps, possibly those will work. The large rubber bands I got from Rockler were just not large enough.

I had the same issue and its not a simple matter to just change out those rear wheels!

Sorry to divert topic I just want to give a  [thumbs up] to the elastic band idea. Our house gets the news paper delivered and it always comes with an elastic band. I put it on all four wheels (6 elastic bands in total) and suddenly my vac was like a stealth ninja. No more sound of plastic on concrete, no black marks. This is such a great idea. The only thing is I found that when moving my vac a lot the front wheel elastic bands came off, it could be that I am using old elastic :/

Any great idea, just though I'd share my  [2cents].

Again sorry for the divert Ward.
 
Ward,
          You could continue to run a CT vacuum with a cyclonic seperator(eg. dust deputy ,see pic for simmilar)  AND the vortex
This oneida vortex seperates the high cfm's( floor sander) from the dust(floor).This allows you to run hose 1 1/2"  up to 70feet.

Monitor the CT's heat and communtator state as it is NOT a continuously rated motor just a shop vac motor.
Switches are suseptable to fine dust(as is the clark 7R's ).
 
ward said:
Ward i use my dust extractor for big machine sanding edgeing buffing.i often do floors 3-4000sf.Ave floor size 1500sf per week.
That's a lot of sanding, and the extraction is on most of the time.

Nick/chris  
The rubberband idea is very good but not a solution to wards problem with finely sanded floors.These require a softer approach.Raw wood doesn't like rubber or plastic.

Nick

sorry festool vac's run brushed motors and they do burn out.Very quickly with floor sanding(brushes and bearings).Guys with 3 motor ceno's.are always changing out motors.Most big manufactures run brushless now (Ruwac,Pulse Bac,Hilton).
Don't get me wrong i love my CT vacuum but i use it for what it is intended as i'm sure you do.
 
nickao said:
A large rubber band  stretched over the wheels will work if you can find them that big. They make large rubber bands like that for people to use as clamps, possibly those will work. The large rubber bands I got from Rockler were just not large enough.

I had the same issue and its not a simple matter to just change out those rear wheels!

Ward a couple of thoughts, how about heat shrink to cover the  wheels it is available in some large diameters if cut to just over the width of the wheel and then heated it will shrink to the size of the wheel and will give a good look unlike tape.or there are some self amalgamating tapes available.
and if you decided not to change out the power cord perhaps some type of sleeving slide over the cord.
 
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