Vacuum Jigs

[peter halle]

When we were at the first training class in Lebanon, we got a chance to see the Festool Vacuum Clamping set that is available in Europe and that might be making its way overseas in the future.  Dan Rush and I were talking about possibilities for its usage in our lives, and I mentioned to Dan that I used a vacuum clamp to replace a helper when running crown or other long trim.  Dan got in touch with me and asked for some details, so I shot this unedited video showing him the basics.  He thought that you guys might also like to see it.  May it serve as a jumping off point.

Peter

Vacuum Jig to hold long trim

 

[danrush]

Thanks Peter for putting this up. 

It's true I got a sneak peek yesterday, and as I told Peter, it's really started me thinking about some possibilities for my methods of work.  I have never been exposed to vacuum pumps before, so I'm a complete newbie to them.

One thing I'd like to explore is a vacuum assisted ledger board for installing wall cabinets.  Most guys use a nailed or screwed in ledger board to help support cabinets during installation. It works, but I always thought that even though the walls are almost always going to be finished after the cabinet install, the screw holes left behind looked kind of hokey. I've been able to avoid using a ledger because I employ a cabinet lift on my installs, but sometimes a ledger would be helpfull.

I'm wondering if I could fabricate a long (60-72") support with 3 or 4 suction ports to attach to the wall and securely support the weight of a 50-75lb cabinet.  Any experience in this area out there? 

I'm also starting to work on a crown system inspired by Peter. 

Thanks for pushing me down another slippery slope Peter

Dan

 

[peter halle]

Dan,

You're welcome.  If you go the non Festool route you can thank me later for saving you $$$$.

The main issues to contend with will be:  can the substrate hold a vacuum - is it porous, and the adhesive strength of the vacuum tape attached to whatever you use as a ledger.  If you do a manifold with multiple ports that will be neat.  I'm still working on other ideas for you and others here.

Peter

 

[score0matic]

Funny you should mention this but ARSO_BG in this thread http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=7928.msg80205;topicseen#msg80205 showed a web site that is selling these things

http://www.compoundmiter.com/order_green_suckers.html
Dont know any thing else about them ??? ??? other than i saw them here in the Fog today.

Dan the only thing you should be aware of is you may want your walls primed before you rely on vacuum to drywall for support of anything expensive
Craig

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I saw those things awhile ago and had long since forgotten about them.

They look pretty handy for certain things.  I am lazy and didn't hit the link, how much are they?

Ok I couldn't wait, 70 bucks for a pair, who wants to try them out first.

 

[peter halle]

The Green Suckers.  They were on This Old House a few years ago.  They were my starting point more than a year ago.  The problem with them is that they use a venturi to pull a vacuum and stick to the surface.  You must have an air compressor running continuously for them to stick.  I had a vacuum pump but didn't want to deal with the compressor noise or wear.  I wrote to the company and asked if they had plans to come out with a set that just worked on a vacuum pump and never heard back.  Reviews out there on the web are very mixed on their performance also.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

Peter

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I have used the vaccum clamp thing for soild surface counter tops.

It comes in a yellow tool box thing.  I think it still ran off a compressor though.

No more than the few minutes it would take to put those green ones up and get your long pice of crown installed, I dont see a huge issue with using a compressor.  Allthough, it might take a little bit bigger compressor than what Dan carries with him.

 

[greg mann]

Dan,
I would be concerned about the safety of a vacuum ledger board. Somebody trips over the pump plug..... and you might have a pretty expensive crash.

 

[danrush]

I understand your concern, Greg.  With my methods of work, though, it's not much of a problem.  

Since I use cabinet lifts extensively for all but the smallest cabinets, there is actually little to no weight on the ledger board for more time than it takes to back off a little on the lift to allow the cabinet to seat on the ledger and drive in the first screw into the wall.  Also, the lift is still there, just a fraction of an inch below to "catch" the cabinet, if you will.  

I've been working solo for some time now, and know the costs of a runaway cabinet. (both monetarily and physically).  I would never suggest someone new to hanging heavy pieces of furniture on the wall try it alone, or try using the method I propose here.

Thanks for your thoughts, Dan

 

[danrush]

  Allthough, it might take a little bit bigger compressor than what Dan carries with him.

I think you are right, Darcy. My little Senco just puts out what the Green Suckers require, not leaving much for my nailers.  I think for me, a variation of Peter's vacuum pump will be the cat's meow.

Dan

 

[counterfix]

if your goal is just crown there is a crown molding clip at www.fastcap.com 4.99 ea and the best thing is if there's a failure you won't damage the floor. but vacuum jigs can be usefull in the right application .

 

[peter halle]

I work alone.  I already had a vacuum pump.  Many times I have been in a situation where I just needed someone to hold the end of something for a couple of minutes.  That is why I decided to do this.

Dan and others have mentioned concerns regarding the strength.  Everyone has their comfort factor.  Even me.  I'm comfortable.

Not Quite Atlas Holding up the World...

Peter

 

[danrush]

if your goal is just crown there is a crown molding clip at www.fastcap.com 4.99 ea

I've used those clips, and in the right circumstance, can be very handy.  One problem for me though, is that when hanging crown from cabinets, sometimes the cabinets do not go to the ceiling, and thus the clips are useless.  But for hanging crown in a room at ceiling height, I can recommend them.

Dan

 

[danrush]

I'm not sure what's more remarkable, the clamp holding, or the old man holding that long ;D.  Just kidding. 

Great demo.  I needed that so that I don't try to over-design this thing.  As I said earlier, I don't believe I'm really looking to hang much weight, just some stability I can count on.

Dan

 

[peter halle]

Old Man  ??? ???  Thanks Dan. 

 

[danrush]

I would have at least tried some one handed pull ups, (or more likely some tricky camera angles  : )

 

[peter halle]

Then I would have been suspected of manipulating this totally unscientific test.  And I even forgot my safety glasses.

I'll save the one handed stuff for you when you set up your system.  Wait, yours will have a second clamp and a hoist to lift the cabinet up and you will be sitting in a chair drinking designer coffee with your finger on a button.  Brains - not brawn.

Peter

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Then I would have been suspected of manipulating this totally unscientific test.  And I even forgot my safety glasses.

I'll save the one handed stuff for you when you set up your system.  Wait, yours will have a second clamp and a hoist to lift the cabinet up and you will be sitting in a chair drinking designer coffee with your finger on a button.  Brains - not brawn.

Peter

Finish painting that door!! [poke]     

 

[peter halle]

Darcy,

Thanks.  But that just isn't possible, it would violate a fundamental rule of nature and upset the balance of the universe -- A contractor's house is never finished.  If you had mentioned the trim at the rear door on the lock side at the bottom, that and one other jamb in the house were attacked over the span of a week by my 15 year old Golden Retriever.  Never had done it before, hasn't done it again.  Go figure.  ???

Peter

 

[tbellemare]

And they say old dogs can't learn new tricks...

I like your set up, Peter. I almost always work alone and it would be very helpful a lot of the time.

It looked like your seal was pretty thin. Can you expound on what you use? Have you tried thicker seals, like the self-adhesive weatherstripping that comes in different thicknesses? It seems like if you had more sponginess, you could stick to a surface that had more texture. But then it might not seal well enough?

I'm thinking that with the right seal, it could be used for all sorts of things, even 12' siding, and I have a siding job coming up.

Tom

Tom