Venting on a company's forum

[sancho57]

though i do not have a saw that was being recalled, I have the TS55 EQ. I commend festool in their handling of this recall. First a company doesnt have really any obligation to provide a explanation of why and what parts and how to correct the problem etc.

Their #1 concern is consumer safety, taking care of their customers and ensuring their safety. Festool has excelled in this requirement. None of you who have had your saws recalled have complained about being injured. Plus they have supplied you with another saw that cost more to replace the one recalled.

I think they did a excellent job protecting its customers. Look at Ford the way they handled their issue with the  Explorer. How many were hurt before the company acknowledged that they had a problem, same with Toyota.

So Festool IMO did a great job at handling this situation.

 

[Paul G]

I opted for the swap, and on the face of it really can use the added power.  But.....but, there is the issue of the rails.  I have already had one serious accident from a kick back before transitioning to Festool, and don't want another.  So, to properly use my TS75, I really should spend another $185 for the proper rail.

---snip---

So, my point is that I wish, in full disclosure, I had been informed of the rail issue before I opted for the swap.

DrD

I hear you, don't want to spend the extra money for functionality I previously had, but I also received a more powerful saw in the process (albeit heavier). The extra track isn't for nothing though, it's not like my current short track won't still work for other things, it's not defective, just won't work well for the same task it would with the 55. New blades also cost a little more, but this is the option I chose and so be it. There's reasonable limits on making a customer whole in a situation like this, from my perspective the remedies offered were fair and more than adequate.

 

[SittingElf]

I don't yet have a horse in this race, but had planned on buying an REQ when I get back to the USA in September.  Clearly, this will have to wait until there is a resolution, and my plan was to originally buy both the 55 and 75.

My question is on the track issue. As I understand it (and I may be somewhat ignorant), the TS75 requires a different track than the TS55/TS55REQ.  Is the track that is included with the MFT/3 Set usable by the TS75 as well as a TS55 ?

From my perspective, if you can't use the MFT track with both, then that becomes a bit of an issue for my timeline and saw purchase decisions. It would be kind of dumb to buy the MFT/3 Set if the TS75 can't be used with the track and the TS55 is unavailable for purchase.

Please educate me on this. [unsure]

 

[Paul G]

I don't yet have a horse in this race, but had planned on buying an REQ when I get back to the USA in September.  Clearly, this will have to wait until there is a resolution, and my plan was to originally buy both the 55 and 75.

My question is on the track issue. As I understand it (and I may be somewhat ignorant), the TS75 requires a different track than the TS55/TS55REQ.  Is the track that is included with the MFT/3 Set usable by the TS75 as well as a TS55 ?

From my perspective, if you can't use the MFT track with both, then that becomes a bit of an issue for my timeline and saw purchase decisions. It would be kind of dumb to buy the MFT/3 Set if the TS75 can't be used with the track and the TS55 is unavailable for purchase.

Please educate me on this. [unsure]

No, it's a size thing, the 55" rail is a bit short for cross cutting a 4' sheet using the TS75 (assuming no plunge) so a 75" rail is a new purchase for those of us who don't have that rail yet. The 55" rail is still good for shorter items though.

 

[Kevin D.]

I don't yet have a horse in this race, but had planned on buying an REQ when I get back to the USA in September.  Clearly, this will have to wait until there is a resolution, and my plan was to originally buy both the 55 and 75.

My question is on the track issue. As I understand it (and I may be somewhat ignorant), the TS75 requires a different track than the TS55/TS55REQ.  Is the track that is included with the MFT/3 Set usable by the TS75 as well as a TS55 ?

From my perspective, if you can't use the MFT track with both, then that becomes a bit of an issue for my timeline and saw purchase decisions. It would be kind of dumb to buy the MFT/3 Set if the TS75 can't be used with the track and the TS55 is unavailable for purchase.

Please educate me on this. [unsure]

Either saw works on any track as the extruded aluminum of all tracks have the same profile.  It's the LENGTH of the track that is the issue previously raised.  Because of it's longer body and footprint on the track, the TS75 needs a longer track to do the same cut as a TS55 would if you by practice, which is safer and what most people do, is plunge down first, then slide your saw along the rail to start cutting.  When you buy either saw, they each come with a track, but the TS75 comes with a slightly longer one to at least accomplish the basic task of crosscutting a 4X8 sheet.

For a rip cut, you can cut using a TS55 with the 2700mm track, but if you are using the TS75, you should opt for the 3000mm track to more efficiently cut sheet goods and in particular MDF sheets which are a few inches longer than your standard 8 foot sheet.

You can still cut either way using the shorter tracks, it's just you will have to plunge into the start of your cut now, rather than plunge and push your saw to commence cutting, which many who have used the a TS55 up until now were likely used to.  They just simply have to do it different now, and will possibly have moments with getting habituated to now using a TS75 to remember this from now on.

Myself, I always prefer to plunge and then cut rather than plunge into my cut.  It is safer imo and/or less prone to movement of the track on the workpiece if your rubber gripper strip on the bottom of the guide rails is getting old.  For this reason, it becomes prudent to now fasten the track to the stock imo when plunging into a cut.  Something you would not have to do, if you had a track long enough to accomodate plunging your blade down first and then sliding the saw along the rail into the stock to start cutting.

Hope that explains it.

 

[grbmds]

I guess I'm out of the loop and couldn't follow this back to its beginning. I bought a TS55REQ a few months ago. I am not aware of any recall or possible problems with the saw and, further, have had no problems with it yet. What's the deal? In a few words, just so I  know. Thanks. Sorry, but I'm new to this site and just started.

 

[peter halle]

I guess I'm out of the loop and couldn't follow this back to its beginning. I bought a TS55REQ a few months ago. I am not aware of any recall or possible problems with the saw and, further, have had no problems with it yet. What's the deal? In a few words, just so I  know. Thanks. Sorry, but I'm new to this site and just started.

In a nutshell - Festool USA has identified an issue that they feel is a safety concern.  They have voluntarily contacted the Consumer Product Safety Commission regarding this situation and the official wheels are turning.  An official recall and subsequent notice has not happened yet pending CPSC decisions, instructions and requirements.

In the meantime in a proactive measure, as posted here by Shane Holland of Festool USA:  "If any of our customers have any questions about the TS 55 REQ, please stop using it immediately and contact us toll free at 1-855-784-9727 (8 AM – 5 PM EST)."

Please pick up the phone and give them a call.

Peter

 

[hockey_magnet]

I'm quite happy to swap out my 18 month old Mini for a brand new CT 26 that retails for +$180 more than I paid for my unit. You could always sell it and get more than your money back that way. Can you imagine a car dealer saying: Well, since your 2 year old car was not government certified, we're giving you a brand new, better car? Not likely! Also not likely they would give you a full refund.

I also don't believe it's been determined that the vacs don't meet the standards, only that they have not been approved, which is a big difference.

Chris

If my 2yr old car was subsequently found not to be 'street legal' as your suggesting (i.e it does not meet min gov standards) and there was no fix for it - your darn right I would expect my money back.    I would also expect damages for costs related to the car that were not transferable or unique to the car, as well as coverage of any 'out of pocket' expenses related to the recall.  

Festool has a reputation for going 'above and beyond' (or at least it does on this forum)  - I wonder why they are offering on the TS55 recall a new unit, 'upgrade' or money back;  yet on the Midi recall (which is also a safety issue if you have a jobsite inspection) they are forcing users to take units that are just too large.  

Hope they catch this PR disaster - we'll see

I stand to be corrected but I haven't seen any evidence that the vacs don't "meet min gov standards" only that they have not been CSA approved, those are two different issues. IMHO It's not a "safety issue", it's an insurance issue. You aren't in danger from using your vac as you would be with a malfunctioning saw. I doubt very much you would get a refund for your car after 1 or 2 years. The auto manufacturers would either get an exemption or you would get a much smaller pro rated refund based on your mileage  or a "discount" on a new vehicle,  - that's the way they operate so you would end up accepting their offer or sue them (good luck with that) - that's always your right. I also think Festool in order to "fix" this would have to have every unit recalled and certified. It seems to me if it was a USA or Europe issue they may have done that but our market is so small that this is the easiest way for them to deal with it. For my money, if it's "safe" to use in Europe and USA, it is safe enough to use in Canada, just sad that the insurance issue causes a problem for the trades guys. Like I said, take the CT26, sell it and then buy another brand if you have to have something smaller which you would have to do even if you got a refund. The difference with the saw is likely due to liability issues and proving they did everything humanly possible to ensure customer safety which is not an issue with the vacs.

I still think offering the CT26 is going "above and beyond" what other tool manufacturers would do in this case but I would like to see them re introduce the Mini and Midi at some point.

Based on feedback on this forum I hardly think this Vac issue can be called a "PR disaster"

 

[basimerly]

Quote from Chris:
[/quote]The threads would still happen regardless. Some Festool users, aside from extreme brand loyalty, also have a desire to try and figure out exactly what the problems are and try and "fix" things. Much of the time , that's what makes the forums so useful. However, in this case, Festool has acknowledged that there is an issue with the saws and to let discussions go on in terms of fixing the problem instead of simply returning the saws would turn into a legal liability since Festool owns the forums.

Chris

Thanks Chris,

All good points.  The tone and nature is still worrisome, but the nature of a good tool owner to discuss fix's is one I think we all want to continue, generally speaking.  Festool ensuring incorrect information on how to fix a problem stays off the forum though makes good common sense to be sure!

 

[basimerly]

[quote author=elimelech12
BTW, basimerly,  [welcome] to the thread.
[/quote]

Thanks elimelech12 !

 

[basimerly]

My worry lies in why threads have been locked down (forgive me if that's the wrong lingo). Why did things get to that point in the first place? Why are we at the point of publicly limiting liability ? 

This is exactly the reason why I made a posting a few days ago summarizing the Consumer Product Safety Act. Threads are not being locked to prevent discussion. They are being locked because Federal Law prevents the discussion from taking place while the investigation is underway. Because this forum is owned by Festool, any discussion here is the legal equivalent of Festool making a public statement. That is prohibited under section 15(i) of the CPSA.

The information will come shortly. Just be patient.

Man that Federal Law stuff... Details... Haha 

Thanks Rick

 

[mpaulus]

The TS75 was my first purchase of Festool about 4 years ago(switched from dewalts track saw) I was so impressed by power and accessories i bought a vac ct22, then the jig psb300 by then i was hooked more vacs, jigs, lr32, routers, tables, ect you get the point. But what impressed me more than any other companies tools i have had over the years was Festool service and commitment for any outstanding tool. I sent my ts75 in at about 2-2 1/2 year mark for i thought i bent the base, got it back in a week new base no charge. that was awsome. a few months later a coworker of mine broke my jigsaw by jaming the blade bent the guides and broke the piston. Festool charged me only for the parts and warrantied the labor. Now No other company would have done that for a almost 3 year old saw that was broke by misuse.
I also own a ts55req that is acting up from not releasing properly, but I know for a fact that festool will come up with a timely solution and has given some really good options.

 

[grbmds]

I read most of the disgruntled comments and find them inaccurate and unfair based on my experience with Festool. I have had the opposite experience with regard to Festool Customer Service both with the TS55REQ and on another issue. Timing was the only reason I ended up with the TS55REQ; just when I made the decision to buy. Just my luck! However, it is lucky that Festool is a responsible, high quality tool manufacturer that feels it's important to treat customers well for just being customers. After finding out about the TS55 problem I called the number and a new TS 75 saw was authorized. With regard to the track issues I saw raised, Festool tracks are interchangeable. The TS 75 supplied track is longer, but the shorter track will work and, for my purposes, that length should work most of the time. I will eventually buy a longer track anyway if I need it. I might have to buy new plastic splinter guards for the tracks I have but that might not even be necessary. Most tool companies have a problem tool at one point or another; many have many problem tools. To offer an upgraded saw in its place is truly an action which Festool I doubt would have to take. Most companies wouldn't do that I'm sure. Thanks to Festool. So far, I am satisfied that I have made the right decision to venture into the Festool line. I have been impressed with the short time I owned the TS 55 REQ (which, by the way, I did not have trouble with) and the MFT3 table. I find its accuracy and ease of use and setup amazing.

 

[festnoob]

I read most of the disgruntled comments and find them inaccurate and unfair based on my experience.

I'm glad you have had such a positive experience with Festool. At the the same time I wouldn't call other member's opinions inaccurate or unfair. Sometimes guys just want to get something off their chest based on their own experiences and that's what this thread is for. It also allows festool to take a look and improve on their already unbelievable customer service. Plus, I bet you that most of the member's posting (or venting) have little doubt that Festool will come through.

Festool is awesome and that's why, despite some guys being disappointed, they're still here checking out  and awaiting what's next.  [not worthy]

 

[Stephen B]

Festool USA appears to be handling this issue very well, but within that country's the legal context.

Why have these saws not been recalled in other countries? Is it that say for example; a 1:1000 number of units with a fault is not an issue in Europe but is in the US with its heighly litigious legal system? Or was there some subtle design difference for the Nth American market?

If you want to study how not to handle a recall issue look at Volkswagen Australia who most of the year denied there was an issue with sudden power loss in some models, particularly those with DSG and manual gearboxes. Now having been dragged by the mass media in to a recall they now have a major  public relations issue, huge sales drop and the Victorian Coroner further investigating a fatal car accident.

Meanwhile Festool is making a considerable effort to keep their US customers happy.

[wink]

 

[Kev]

If you want to study how not to handle a recall issue look at Volkswagen Australia who most of the year denied there was an issue with sudden power loss in some models, particularly those with DSG and manual gearboxes. Now having been dragged by the mass media in to a recall they now have a major  public relations issue, huge sales drop and the Victorian Coroner further investigating a fatal car accident.

YEP!

Audi have the same transmission component in the A1 - my wife's car was recalled for replacement while Volkswagen have their head in the sand. VW service and support is rubbish in Australia ... such a shame as it's a really good car, but I won't buy one [mad]

 

[festnoob]

Meanwhile Festool is making a considerable effort to keep their US customers happy.

[wink]

But there will always be people who will say its not enough

 

[nanook]

Meanwhile Festool is making a considerable effort to keep their US customers happy.

[wink]

But there will always be people who will say its not enough

True - but it seems they are treating their Canadian customers very differently. 
The TS55 issues seem to be handled very well, the CT Midi and Mini issues.... ???

 

[festnoob]

Meanwhile Festool is making a considerable effort to keep their US customers happy.

[wink]

But there will always be people who will say its not enough

True - but it seems they are treating their Canadian customers very differently.  
The TS55 issues seem to be handled very well, the CT Midi and Mini issues.... ???

I just found out what happened with the midi. It seems that there are more dissatisfied customers in Canada thanin the USA with the ts55 "issue," but maybe Festool is looking into it. I know that they care about their reputation for customer satisfaction.

 

[darita]

I was just breaking down some sheet goods and found the 49" MDF was just to wide for my 1400 rail that came with the 55.  I couldn't figure out how to make it work safely, so I broke out the rail that came with my 75.  I think the offer of the 75 for the REQ is very generous, however I do think that some kind of accommodation should be given for trading the rail as well, for safety sake.