What a Great Site This is !

[Valleywood]

Been lurking for several months here trying to educate myself.  What a spectacular site this is for information.  Inasmuch as Festool does such a ..... a'hem.... marginal.... job of communication this site is a goldmine.  (Kinda an unkind remark, don't you think?  Since they in fact DID set up this site?  But their owner's manuals are lousy....)

So in celebration of this site, and to eternal self-shame,  I did El Foldo yesterday.  ETS125, CT26 w/ snorkel  ( I know, I know.  They prefer "boom arm".  Not very exciting name however) bought new and amazingly picked up a used LS130  right in the store.  These were the things I will use immediately, so bought them.

Random thoughts:  Retired here and after a number of false starts, am in the process of building my shop.  You know, the old deal.  Need to build shop, but need shop to build it.  With a nod to Rumpole, SWMBO (She Who Must be Obeyed) has directed my attention to the completion of a room in the new house, so I'll be doing some sanding.

I noticed in a post now long lost to my memory the WTTE, "doctors are not actually recommending Festool".  No physician is going to go on record, but in my advanced years lately I was warned in the strongest terms, by a respiratory specialist who is a personal friend that if I insist on going down this road (wood shop) that I must install spectacular filtration and use tools with the  best dust control.  He said Festool was one of those.  He specified sanding as being enemy number one.  Either I "follow his advice or check out soon."  I understand words of those kind.  So here I am buying tools  I laughed at (because of price) two years ago.

A thread early in April entitled "what is your favorite Festool" is my favorite.  Lotsa great positions clearly stated.

I hope never to have to again do serious refinishing.  Hopefully all new work.  Building small tables, etc. You know the drill.  Never leave the shop (except at the direction of SWMBO) for work.  I now feel well armed to attack my first project, but need to fill in with sanders.  Thinking of a sander that can reach into corners.  (DX93 E?  DTS400? )    Opinions?

Also need a 6" sander for tabletops.  Am intrigued by the Mirka.    Is its dust collection good?  Really good?  As good as the ETS 150/3?  Is the ETS 150/5 a better comparison?  I have to admit on the face of it I'm leaning very hard toward yellow on this......   

And finally I will (thanks to all you dreadful people who have sold me on them) soon add the Kapex (with associated stuff) & Domino.

So thank you to all you folks for forcing me to plan on destroying my savings account.    [crying]

 

[builderbob]

Welcome friend!  Glad to hear you're heeding the dr's warning!  You don't wanna check outta this hotel too early

I would recommend the dts400 over the dx93 merely from a balance standpoint. The ro90 has the triangle pad ability but again it becomes a longer tool. Just my thoughts!

I've played with the Mirka several times at a local woodcraft...it's a nice low profile sander. I have the ets150/3 and enjoy it but it is tall, so that could be a feature that drives you in one direction or another!

Looking forward to seeing your progress!!!

Bob

 

[Kev]

[welcome]

I pondered the Mirka, but went with ETS150/3 & 5's. They're so incredibly smooth running ... perfect for large areas without fatigue!

Plug-it and vac hose compatibility and no messing with a transformer is another prime consideration.

Not knocking the Mirka - just wasn't a winner in my equation.

Enjoy  [wink]

Kev.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Welcome to the FOG!  I'll second the DTS400, great sander for corners.  I have no first hand experience with the Mirka but it seems to have it's fans amongst the members here.  That said, Kev brings up good points to consider.

 

[Frank Pellow]

[welcome]

It's good that you have now officially joined the FOG and, as you already know, it is great source of information.

I need to correct you on one thing.  The FOG was not set up by Festool, but rather by Mathew Schenker.  Festool has always been supportive, but they did not take over ownership until several years after the launch of the Festool Owners group -first on Yahoo and then here.  Thanks again Mathew!

 

[WPeters]

[welcome] To FOG.  I don't know anything about Mirka.  But  [thumbs up] for the ETS 150.  I used it today in the shop and was once again impressed but how nice of a job it does as a finish sander!  

 

[semenza]

Hi Valleywood,

Welcome to the FOG!  [smile]

Your savings account is in big trouble now.  [wink]

Seth

 

[Samo]

Hi Valleywood,

This is a great site and the people that support it are great also.  The Sanders are the Bomb!

As Frank said the history is a long one.  I studied a very long time before I needed to be COMMITTED TO THE FESTOOL 12 STEP PROGRAM  [crying]

 

[ccarrolladams]

[welcome] to The FOG, Valleywoods,

It seems to me there should be a special discount for a fan of "Rumpole" willing to refer to SHMBO. One of my favorite "Rumpoles" is from Series 3, "The Female of the Species" in which SWMBO "Hilda Rumpole" gets frustrated that her husband, though a brilliant criminal defence attorney, cannot use a screwdriver. She goes out, buys what could be an 8mm mains electric drill, attaches a male connector and proceeds to hang shelves with the best of them.

Nearly all my life I have used cabinet making as a release from my primary career, but was lucky enough since 1948 people have been paying top dollar for my cabinets. I was in the market for a very large slider saw (Brand A or Brand F) when my smaller tool dealer demonstrated the TS55 track plunge saw with a CT22 dust collector. First of all I loved the quiet effective dust extraction and moving the saw through the work instead of pushing sheets of plywood through the saw and hoping a traditional dust collection system would gather the resulting dust.

We all approach woodworking from different directions. I have always highly valued my time. Consequentially I am willing to pay what I must for tools that reduce frustration. Even if I had no cabinet orders in 2006 when I bought my first of many TS55s, I would have done so because of the joy I get sliding those along the rail and feeling the resulting glue-ready cut in top-quality cabinet plywood. When making parts from plywood, accurate glue-ready is as good as it gets.

I still had 19 fully-functioning routers from most of the leading manufacturers when I bought my first OF1010 because I did not own a plunge router and I needed the OF1010 along with a complete LR 32 system. That OF1010 and I have drilled hundreds of thousands of shelf-pin holes since then. My first OF2200 replaced several older powerful routers, because the OF2200 runs so darn smooth and I find it almost as much joy to use as the OF1010. When the MFK700 came along I put all my other trim routers into deep storage. Every Festool sander has a purpose of several.

Festool is a system. You will thank the Festool designers as the tools separate you from your money. The trick is to convince SWMBO that all of those tools are in her service. One suggestion: Imagine how much Hilda Rumpole could have accomplished with a CSX and an Installers' Set of bits and drills? 

 

[Valleywood]

Thanks for all the replies.  In particular I want to extend thanks to Matthew for birthing this site.  And thanks to Festool for adopting it.  What I love most about this place is that folks seem to have STRONG opinions about preferences whilst by-in-large remaining kind to one another.  I assure you other lurkers grasp with pleasure strong opinions.  This stuff costs money.  Also am fascinated with so deep an international mix.

CCarroll, I love your memory.  Yes, I recall that episode also.  Am a member of Netflix and rent the series from time-to-time.  Luckily I have a limited intelligence and so forget them, so with each subsequent viewing they remain fresh.  With the passion and elegance of your statement re: routers, I may have to give one a whirl.  1010?  Still made?  If I had only ONE  ( 1 ! )  green router , is that your recommendation?  Remember: a hobbyist here.  :>)    FWIW,  SWMBO  is fully supportive.  All the years the kids were growing up we never went to dinner.  Never went to a movie.  Just saved and invested.  But we paid for both boys to go to school and  now our ship has come in.  Bride is so used to scrimping I now have a devil of a time getting her to spend money.  She's the sun & moon.  Still, it's fun to pretend she's picking on me over the shop......

I have the DeWalt track saw & use a Fein HEPA vacuum for extraction.  I love that tool combination and find changing to green very unlikely.  Also love DW trim router.    Pretty much looking to replace everything else though  with green.

Thanks to you folks I'll go with the DTS 400.    So now that's settled    the 150?  My inclination is to go with the 5 for slightly more aggressive removal and if I'm still cranky follow it with the 125.

Assume the Domino 500, right?  I really don't want to lift heavy stuff any more.  Too old, fat, and lazy.  :>)

One more thing:  I have a profound respect for you folks who use this stuff for a living.  Without you professionals, we who are pretenders would not have the broad array of choices.  Pat yourselves on the back, please.  [big grin]

 

[TinyTiger]

Welcome!  Glad you're with us.

 

[WPeters]

Valleywood-  I like your writing style  I would say take a good look at the 1400eq router.  Its such a joy to use and very versatile.  You will also really like the 150 sander!   Curious are you building a new shop or renovating an existing building?

 

[vjs406]

To the original poster Valleywood,

I have the Mirka CEROS 6" as well as the RO90, RO150, ETS125 EQ, and LS130.  The Mirka does not have as good dust collection (DC) as the Festools with the exception of the LS130 in my opinion. I often get a puff cloud of dust when starting the Mirka, however under use it is pretty good.

I use sanders for composite work (fiberglass, SMC, carbon fiber, etc) so DC is very important. Festools DC is the best out there.

 

[ccarrolladams]

Valley,

The first Festool router I bought was the OF1010, which is a redesign of the OF1000. I am not sure when the OF1000 went out of production. Anyway, I needed a replacement for a traditional line boring machine to make holes for adjustable shelves accurately, rapidly and without frustration. Festool has a whole LR32 System, which was originally designed for the OF1000. So, the OF1010 was designed to use the same accessories.

Remember, when I bought my first OF1010, I had a storage unit with all kinds of other routers, many with less power and others with as much power as the OF2200. My original OF1010 has still only been used for LR32 functions.

Valley, I am not sure what you will be building and which routers you already own. I see you do have a dust collector vac and a track saw. I do recommend buying an OF1010 as a first router for people with little or no router experience. The reason is that much of what we do actually routing as opposed to drilling requires a feeling for the process. It really helps to gain experience and that feel for routing when you are using a router that is not excessively heavy and that is no more than 1000 watts of power. In your case I will assume that should you decide later to buy a more powerful router you can afford to do so.

The Festool OF1400 came along after I had also bought and came to love my OF2200. Consequently I have hardly ever used my only OF1400. Perhaps I have used those in Festool classes more than the one I own. They are designed to be versatile, and that could well be a good thing for a hobbyist. The OF1400 certainly can do LR32 drilling, but when you do that all day long, day after day, fighting the heavier springs of the OF1400 is a drag.

If a person rarely needs to use a trim router, then I agree justifying the price of the MFK700 makes little sense. I remember that my first router was 325 watts and weighed 19 pounds. The OF2200 is felt by some to be very heavy at 18 pounds and it delivers all 2,200 watts of power when needed. I also remember circa 1950 when we were getting away from using aluminum edging with Formica. 'Self-Edging' was the rage. Most of our routers then still weighed more than 15 pounds. Once straight trim bits with a ball bearing at the end came along, we took pride in using those heavy routers turned on the side. It was not easy, but in woodworking very little of what we do is easy.

The way I build European-style frameless cabinets requires a whole lot of hardwood edging to be trimmed. Without a bunch of MFK700s each set for a specific task I would have retired years ago. Probably all those 700 watts are not necessary, but it means the router is working at a third of capacity, so they go on forever!

Festool sanders are expensive, but when sanding is a part of the job, the savings on abrasives is substantial. Festool sanders force air out of the tool in the center of the disc, while the perimeter holes suck the dust into the extractor. That air forced out of the sander improves dust collection and also keeps the abrasives and pad cool. This prolongs their useful lives and also does not heat the wood or other material being sanded.

I earn my living working with very expensive material on a large scale. People ask why I use a pair of USA$45 clamps to hold a guide rail in place when it has anti-skip strips. The reason is I believe in measuring twice and cutting only once. Commonly the sheet of plywood I am cutting cost me over USA$400 in wholesale quantity, so a miss-cut due to rail movement is not a viable option. I charge enough that I can afford the extra few seconds to set those clamps which I do not consider a luxury!

When the time comes to sand I also do not want to damage expensive raw materials that by then has a lot of valuable labor added. Many of my Festool sanders cost me less than what I pay for a sheet of exotic plywood. Festool is a system and with sanders it is important to be able to control the amount of suction. All of the Festool CT sanders have that feature as well as self-start.

 

[Valleywood]

WPeters & CCarroll,

No, I am not constructing a new building now.  I did that four (five?) years ago when we retired.  Family demands (very old parents - both sets) simply demanded all our time.  Now however things have changed somewhat (only Mothers are left) and I can focus on the shop.  It is a hobbyists dream, about the size of a super-sized two-car garage.  It has its own bathroom.  Tiny fridge (you know, the dorm room variety), heat, a place to hang a hammock (in case You-Know-Who is annoyed)  [smile] and a couple windows make it perfect for me.  The object is to build things for the Mennonite auctions for their world missions.  It will keep me busy, sharpen old dull skills once long ago used,  and maybe do some good.  It is fully wired with 110.  It needs 220 for stationary tool dust control and those same-said tools.  I also need to run the dust control duct work.  It has a V-system (Oneida) central evacuation system (thus the necessary ducting),  it also has a Jet overhead filter (great for blowing sawdust around the shop),  and I bought an Oneida mini-Gorilla (HEPA)  that is totally dedicated to cleaning the air.  Yes, really.  If I'm generating dust I turn it on.  Cycles the entire place in two minutes -----  HEPA clean.    And I'm trying to go to Festool to avoid junk-in-the-air for all my small power tools.  Vacuum is a Fein  HEPA.

CCarroll, my current router is the new Bosch jobbie.  Previous to it I used a router I bought ages ago (also Bosch)  with the eight-ball grips and screw-down depth control.  I got to be pretty good with it, but those have serious limitations.  The new one is much more powerful (two point-something HP?) has soft start and so far works like a dream.  Regrettably, DC was an afterthought (and an option.  Can you believe that?  An OPTION ! )  so I have to fire up the mini-gorilla when I use it, wear a mask, etc.  Hence looking for a small Festool that has a few bells & whistles and has serious  DC.

So there you have it !    I read everything folks have to say on virtually all the threads.  Y'all are immensely useful and often funny.  Some of you should be published.  The only handicap I have posting (or reading) is that we live deep in the country.  Internet is by Verizon  4G network and our connection is very VERY  iffy.  We can go many days without access.

Other than that I grow apple trees, volunteer in the hospital  ER,  and make sure SWMBO has the garden of her dreams.  Now working on elevated beds.  Want to come up with a system for 30 - 36  inch tall beds.  I'm tired of her shoulders & back hurting.  She needs to ache from going to the gym, not weeding in the garden.  Gotta have her gardening standing up.    Where is Festool on that?    Huh?  HUH ???

 

[WPeters]

Check out Lee Valley for raised bed options.  http://www.leevalley.com/US/garden/page.aspx?p=10351&cat=2,2180,33227 

PS.  I like to go to the Haiti benefit auction up in Mount Hope.  Think any of your fine work will end up there??  Its always a fun weekend.  Well sounds like you have a nice setup.  Best wishes!