What are these additional holes on TSO GRS-16PE?

[Bob D.]

I must have an early version of the GRS-16PE because it does not have the two holes for the t-track slot so I can not mount it on the MFT/3 hinge. I didn't even know that was possible until I saw this thread this morning. I had to go and look at mine because I didn't remember seeing those holes and sure enough they do not exist on mine.

Not a complaint I just didn't realize those were added later. I guess I could drill and tap them if they are threaded. I'd have to get a metric tap of whatever size that is. It's not something I had even considered using the GRS-16PE for so in the long run not really a concern for me.

 

[TinyShop]

[member=75217]squall_line[/member] - sometimes public shaming is necessary in order to force a response. If that's what it takes (which it shouldn't) then that's what it takes. It's not my fault that WP initially responded they way they did. I wish it had all gone differently but it didn't. If I can produce some change in the behavior of a company whose customer service leaves a little to be desired then we all win. I'm on the side of consumers here.

 

[TinyShop]

[member=60461]Bob D.[/member] - FWIW I believe TSO sells a jig intended to allow owners of earlier versions to add the mounting holes. Check out their website for more.

 

[Bob D.]

Thanks I'll look for that.

 

[squall_line]

Without seeing these products in person there's no way to know what subtle differences there may be.

Why not just go to a local Festool dealer and put your hands on the Festool square yourself?

And if they have an MFT set up (almost all of them do), ask if you can try to attach the square to the bracket?

You'd have an answer that you have verified with your own eyes and hands much more quickly than coming on a web forum and repeatedly calling out manufacturers for your perception of their action or inaction (similar to your berating of Woodpecker's in another thread).

Check my location for the answer to your question.

"Turtle Island" is alternately a reference to North America or to the entire planet, depending on who you're speaking to.  There are some on here who have their location listed as "Milky Way Galaxy", which is about as descriptive.  It's turtles all the way down...

if folks in Europe could be made aware of their products if compatability can be achieved so they can take advantage like we can in N.A.

This is the first reference I've found to you being in North America.

Since the Festool version of the TSO square is not sold nor available in North America, it's really a moot point.

It seems like the idea is for you to force TSO to share information on behalf of Festool for a group of people that you're not a part of and who haven't even asked the question.  I really don't know what to say about that, but it comes across as being offended by proxy, which is usually a dangerous way to act.  This issue is hardly a case of significant moral peril that is being suppressed by society and needs to be brought to light by outsiders...  It's a machined chunk of aluminum...

 

[Cheese]

Here ya go Bob...the jig is an aluminum flat that's been flycut to receive one leg of the square. It has two 5mm holes in it that mark the location for the tapped holes. It's foolproof to use.

I used a 5mm transfer punch to mark the 2 holes. It's available on the TSO website for $6.
https://tsoproducts.com/tso-guide-rail-squares/grs-16-series-upgrade-drill-fixture/

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

 

[guybo]

Hi, I think he means these, btw is it long enough for a large bull nose [member=44099]Cheese[/member] [attachimg=1]

 

[squall_line]

Hi, I think he means these, btw is it long enough for a large bull nose [member=44099]Cheese[/member] [attachimg=1]

There's a template on TSO's website for marking and drilling those, as well as tap information:
https://tsoproducts.com/tso-guide-rail-squares/grs-16-pe-template-for-adding-tapped-m6-holes/

 

[mino]

[member=75217]squall_line[/member] - sometimes public shaming is necessary in order to force a response. If that's what it takes (which it shouldn't) then that's what it takes. It's not my fault that WP initially responded they way they did. I wish it had all gone differently but it didn't. If I can produce some change in the behavior of a company whose customer service leaves a little to be desired then we all win. I'm on the side of consumers here.

The situation is simple.

TSO can answer your questions about TSO products. Which Hans did.

Festool can answer your questions about Festool products. Which you DID NOT ASK, by the way. This forum is run by the US distributor for Festool which does not market the Festool version, hence the Q is moot here.

Now, the key issue is that NO ONE can answer authoritatively /for legal liability reasons/ about compatibility of their products one with another *as long as* that compatibility is not contractually enshrined and mutually agreed to be marketed.

This is the world of the laywers we live in.
As an american you should understand that better than anyone else. Just try learn to live with it and you will have a much happier life.

 

[Bob D.]

Hi, I think he means these, btw is it long enough for a large bull nose [member=44099]Cheese[/member] [attachimg=1]

There's a template on TSO's website for marking and drilling those, as well as tap information:
https://tsoproducts.com/tso-guide-rail-squares/grs-16-pe-template-for-adding-tapped-m6-holes/

Yes, that's the one. I went to TSO's site earlier today on advice from [member=64030]TinyShop[/member] and found the PDF template so I'm good to go.

Thank you everyone for your help. It's nice to have that help from everyone. Just one of the things about this forum that make it better than the rest.

 

[TinyShop]

[member=75217]squall_line[/member] - it's literally the First Nation accepted place name for N. America (and nowhere else).

As for the remainder of your comment, has it ever occurred to you that things are not always as they appear (to you)? I encourage you to open your mind and consider your fellow FOG'er, the person who visits this site to learn something. As it currently stands, Festool owners in Europe and countries that European retailers will ship to can't answer the basic question of whether or not these components are compatible with each other. My guess is that most have no idea of the possible potential that exists as it relates to what we're discussing here. That would annoy me. I'm just trying to do those folks a favor (some of whom are my friends and family BTW) and provide something of worth on this forum for posterity.

That's the spirit that this forum operates on. Just ask Bob D. Before reading this thread he had no idea that his tool could be modified per instructions provided by the manufacturer to allow him to potentially take advantage of of this enhanced use. Where would he be had others of us kept mum and/or refused to ask basic questions? I just don't get the small world provincial approach you're advocating for.

 

[MikeGE]

[member=75217]squall_line[/member] - it's literally the First Nation accepted place name for N. America (and nowhere else).

As for the remainder of your comment, has it ever occurred to you that things are not always as they appear (to you)? I encourage you to open your mind and consider your fellow FOG'er, the person who visits this site to learn something. As it currently stands, Festool owners in Europe and countries that European retailers will ship to can't answer the basic question of whether or not these components are compatible with each other. My guess is that most have no idea of the possible potential that exists as it relates to what we're discussing here. That would annoy me. I'm just trying to do those folks a favor (some of whom are my friends and family BTW) and provide something of worth on this forum for posterity.

That's the spirit that this forum operates on. Just ask Bob D. Before reading this thread he had no idea that his tool could be modified per instructions provided by the manufacturer to allow him to potentially take advantage of of this enhanced use. Where would he be had others of us kept mum and/or refused to ask basic questions? I just don't get the small world provincial approach you're advocating for.

As a European resident, I don't need or want anyone researching product compatibility for me.  I am capable of doing this on my own without invoking a "piss off" response from vendors or manufacturers.  I suspect many of my fellow European woodworkers are capable of doing this as well.  This might come as a surprise to you, but the TSO Products, Woodpeckers, and Incremental Tools product lines have been available through European vendors for a while, so we don't have to ponder on compatibility or be concerned that we are missing out.

Please continue to tip at windmills if that gives you pleasure, but don't do it on my behalf.

 

[TinyShop]

OK, let's try something different.

Referencing earlier threads, specifically this, this and this one, I'd love to know, now that some time has passed, how the technique of installing a GRS-16 PE to the MFT/3 hinge bracket and, more specifically, installing a single TSO parallel guide to the GRS-16 PE when it's installed on the MFT/3 hinge bracket (in place of a fixed fence system) has treated any and/or all of the folks who have experimented with an/or permanently deployed this technique. I'd love to hear especially from [member=7784]Ivan T[/member] [member=67555]mattbyington[/member] [member=10147]jobsworth[/member] [member=60777]Bugsysiegals[/member], [member=31382]broseiden[/member] and [member=71544]08G8V8[/member].

It appears that some of you ended up going with Dash Board's hinge and/or other third party fences, etc. Did any of you stick with the TSO method? If so, why? And how's it been treating you?

 

[TinyShop]

[member=75217]squall_line[/member] - it's literally the First Nation accepted place name for N. America (and nowhere else).

As for the remainder of your comment, has it ever occurred to you that things are not always as they appear (to you)? I encourage you to open your mind and consider your fellow FOG'er, the person who visits this site to learn something. As it currently stands, Festool owners in Europe and countries that European retailers will ship to can't answer the basic question of whether or not these components are compatible with each other. My guess is that most have no idea of the possible potential that exists as it relates to what we're discussing here. That would annoy me. I'm just trying to do those folks a favor (some of whom are my friends and family BTW) and provide something of worth on this forum for posterity.

That's the spirit that this forum operates on. Just ask Bob D. Before reading this thread he had no idea that his tool could be modified per instructions provided by the manufacturer to allow him to potentially take advantage of of this enhanced use. Where would he be had others of us kept mum and/or refused to ask basic questions? I just don't get the small world provincial approach you're advocating for.

As a European resident, I don't need or want anyone researching product compatibility for me.  I am capable of doing this on my own without invoking a "piss off" response from vendors or manufacturers.  I suspect many of my fellow European woodworkers are capable of doing this as well.  This might come as a surprise to you, but the TSO Products, Woodpeckers, and Incremental Tools product lines have been available through European vendors for a while, so we don't have to ponder on compatibility or be concerned that we are missing out.

Please continue to tip at windmills if that gives you pleasure, but don't do it on my behalf.

Great! All the more reason we (and I mean the collective "we") should want to get to the bottom of this compatibility issue. I'm sure folks like you would be interested to know if they could save a few Euros by choosing the Festool-branded guide rail square over the original TSO version and then going with TSO's TPG. Were the roles reversed I know I'd appreciate knowing if this was possible.

 

[MikeGE]

Great! All the more reason we (and I mean the collective "we") should want to get to the bottom of this compatibility issue. I'm sure folks like you would be interested to know if they could save a few Euros by choosing the Festool-branded guide rail square over the original TSO version and then going with TSO's TPG. Were the roles reversed I know I'd appreciate knowing if this was possible.

No thank you.  I'm good with what I have and the question of compatibility does not apply to me.

For what it's worth, I also have the Dashboard Guide Rail Bracket on my MFT-style workbench.  I would never consider using the GRS-16(PE) and parallel guide in conjunction with the FS guide rail.  I would consider using the TSO Products TPG Adapter and parallel guide, but in the past year I have not needed it because the fence and stop block works so much better.

 

[DynaGlide]

OK, let's try something different.

Referencing earlier threads, specifically this, this and this one, I'd love to know, now that some time has passed, how the technique of installing a GRS-16 PE to the MFT/3 hinge bracket and, more specifically, installing a single TSO parallel guide to the GRS-16 PE when it's installed on the MFT/3 hinge bracket (in place of a fixed fence system) has treated any and/or all of the folks who have experimented with an/or permanently deployed this technique. I'd love to hear especially from [member=7784]Ivan T[/member] [member=67555]mattbyington[/member] [member=10147]jobsworth[/member] [member=60777]Bugsysiegals[/member], [member=31382]broseiden[/member] and [member=71544]08G8V8[/member].

It appears that some of you ended up going with Dash Board's hinge and/or other third party fences, etc. Did any of you stick with the TSO method? If so, why? And how's it been treating you?

[member=64030]TinyShop[/member] Thank you for putting forth a more reasonable request  [wink]

Not tagged but I was one of the first to try it out. While it does work, it adds a bit of weight/heft to the whole mechanism and is a bit too cumbersome to me. It wasn't worth the tradeoff. When I'm cutting sheets I want to be able to push the sheet firm against the fence and stop before lowering the guide rail. You can't do that when the fence is mounted to the guide rail via the GRS-16.

I now use a Dashboard bracket with the stock MFT fence mounted using Fence Dogs from benchdogs.co.uk on a TrackTubes top. With this setup what I've found is I can take the fence off and put it back on and everything is still square. I check it just to make sure with a TSO MTR-18 and the two tall pins that are included with the kit.

Matt

[member=70363]MikeGE[/member] I very much like everything about your cart. That TSO drawer is very well organized. Well done.

 

[Vondawg]

I’m a no thank you as well….and let’s not try this another way..too much at this point

 

[08G8V8]

I’ve tried a few different setups. I started out just making the top using the Parf Guide but found out my hole pattern wasn’t exactly square.

I then bought the BenchdogsUK fence, which was good, but I had issues recalibrating the fence if I moved or removed the track. Not a huge issue, but took more time than I wanted.

I then tried using the TSO guide and parallel rail on my Dashboard setup, and used it for awhile, but decided I like the fence system better.

So, I ordered a section of Incra fence, and machined it under the track like MikeGE and others have done. I really like this setup. Especially since it is removable if I need access to the entire bench, but it is also micro-adjustable if it gets slightly off do to removing/moving.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[sancho57]

[member=64030]TinyShop[/member]

I dont use my GRS and PGs on the hinge anymore. I find it just as easy/accurate w/o using the hinge

 

[Bertotti]

I am glad for the link to the template at TSO.  must be dense because I was wondering why to attach it to the mft pivot. Now I see.