What do you use your larger routers for?

[Dane]

I have both the OF-1010 and the OF-1400.  I am considering selling the 1400 as I have not picked it up in a long time.  What do you find that you use the more powerful routers for?  I am trying to get an idea of where my 1010 might fail me and if I will be sorry at some point in the near future that I don't have that power.  I have a 2 1/2 hp Bosch router, so if those operations are going to be few and far between, then I can use that on the odd occasion.  I guess I am asking how far you guys think you can go with the smaller 1/4" bits and where one really needs the power and stability of the larger motor and 1/2" bits.

Thanks

 

[Jimhart]

To each his own, but I kind of look at it the opposite way. I use the 1400 about 90% of the time. I prefer to have power to spare and don't find it to be large or heavy compared to my previous 'go to' routers.
I use the smaller Festool router in places where I used to use a trim router. My investment in 1/2" router bits exceeds my investment in these 2 routers. I'm sure this plays some role in my choices.

 

[mwhafner]

I put myself in the same category with Jim.  In the past, I tried to purchase 1/2" bits whenever possible.  I have avoided purchasing the OF1010 due to this fact, but can see where it would have advantages.  The OF1400 is now my go-to, and most other router have been dedicated to a specific function. 

 

[Dane]

Interesting.  The bigger is better approach is the one I adopted with the TS75, and I am not sure why I am looking in the other direction with the router.  I guess I am mostly doing  lightweight routing tasks these days and the 1010 is just so easy to use.  I find that most of my routing time is spent radiusing edges and rabbeting out for cabinet backs which the 1010 does with power to spare.  I guess what I am curious about is really what tasks you think demand the power and size of the 1/2" bit?  I mean, clearly they can all BE done that way, but which do you think require it?  I know which ones I feel that way about, but I would like to hear others' opinions in case I am missing something.  As  I said I have a 1/2" Bosch, and it seems silly to keep a 500.00 machine that I only use once in a blue moon.

 

[extiger]

I bought my OF 1400 primarily to make Dados in conjunction with the MFT/3. This avoids the hazards of Dados on a tablesaw. And it gets used for some handheld work. My router table also has a 2.25hp router. And I've got a 3.5hp DeWalt in a WoodRat for joints. this machine is like a Vertical Milling machine for wood. If not needed for joints, it wouldn't be too useful.

Lots of people use larger routers for hand-held operations. I guess they are braver than I am. On bits (I'm no expert here) my local sharpening shop tells me that he has many pro cabinet shops using 1/4 inch bits. That puzzles me. I know that in Europe they make a lot of router bits with an 8mm shank. That is midway between a 1/4 and 1/2, so maybe they felt a compromise was needed.

Gary Curtis

 

[mwhafner]

I guess what I am curious about is really what tasks you think demand the power and size of the 1/2" bit?

I think there are a lot of factors to consider here - diameter of the bit, depth of cut, etc.  Not having to thing about those factors is why I always opted for the larger shanks.  My mindset is probably too rooted in the days of HSS bits, limited router options, single-speed routers, and lackluster collet design.

I also think that the 8mm bits are a great compromise, and I wish that I had more of them. 

 

[Jimhart]

Ironically, if there was a ready source of decent reasonable 8mm bits (I'm obviously not talking about the $50 variety from Festool) , I'd probably use the 1010 quite a bit more. I read somewhere that the 8mm shank is over 30% thicker than 1/4".

I typically do a lot of 3/4" dados.

For roundovers, laminate trimming, etc. I'm fine with the 1010. Somewhat because those are the only 1/4" bits I have.

 

[rwdawson]

The relative areas of the shanks is the ratio of the squares of the diameters.  1/4" is 6.35mm.  8mm squared is 64, and 6.35 squared is 40.32.  64 divided by 40.32 is 1.59, which gives you a pretty good idea of the relative strengths of the shanks.  In comparing 1/2" to 8mm, the ratio of the squares is 2.52.  The ratio of the squares for 1/2" and 1/4" is 4, which helps explain why it's much easier to break a 1/4" shank bit than a 1/2" shank bit.

Of course, differences in the material used for different bits must be taken into consideration, so the ratios are not an absolute measure of resistance to breaking.  That, and the fact that I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night might render my analysis moot.

Also, the ratio of the areas of 6" sanders to 5" sanders is 36/25, or 1.44, which means you can potentially cover 44% more area in a given time with the larger sander.

 

[greg mann]

RW,

It is even more dramatic than the 1.59 ratio when it comes to stiffness, which varies exponentially. The 8mm bit is stiffer by 1.59 squared over a 1/4 inch bit of the same length, or 2.53 times stiffer.

 

[rwdawson]

RW,

It is even more dramatic than the 1.59 ratio when it comes to stiffness, which varies exponentially. The 8mm bit is stiffer by 1.59 squared over a 1/4 inch bit of the same length, or 2.53 times stiffer.

Greg,

WOW!  I knew there were other factors, but didn't remember that much from Mechanics and Strength of Materials classes which were even longer ago than my last stay at a HIE. I suppose that would make the 1/2 inch bit 16 times stiffer than the 1/4 inch.

Thanks,

Richard

 

[greg mann]

Actually, I led you astray. I didn't do the math correctly as I read through your post too quickly and was wrong with my reply. The rigidity is determined by the difference in diameter, not the area of a cross section. This makes an 8mm 1.5872 times stiffer. (8mm / .25 inch) squared, or .315/.25 squared, or 1.2598 squared) In the case of .5 versus .25 it's: .5/.25, or 2 squared,  or 4 times stiffer. This is the Easy one. Twice as big equals 4 times as stiff. Either way, these are important differences when it comes to routing. There is a huge difference in actual use between 1/4 inch bits and 8mm bits. Remember, all this talk about stiffness has been about the shank size, but the reality is that bits almost never break through the shank. They break somewhere across the flutes because the cross section of the bit is always smaller than the shank to allow for chip clearance. In a 1/4 bit a very high proportion of material need to be removed compared to its bigger counterparts. The ratio between a 1/4 inch bit to an 8mm bit, through the cross section, could easily be 2 to 1 or more. this is even more true in the case of a brazed carbide bit because the underlying steel needs to be cut away even more to leave room for the carbide. This is also one of the unmentioned benefits to solid carbide. Beside it being inherently more wear resistant, it is also stiffer and the entire tool is amorphous, or monolithic, so all material contributes to stiffness.

 

[JayStPeter]

For the small edge treatment jobs you mentioned, I find the 1400 a little akward to use.  I haven't used a 1010, but I have some other routers I use for smaller jobs.  However, one of my favorite decorative elements is a deep chamfer, which a larger router is good for and the 1400 does a particularly good job of collecting dust using the attachment meant for the dovetail jig.  I also do my pattern routing with a large 3/4" bearing/ 1/2" shank bit.  It does a better job of not shredding the piece in against grain situations (although when it does shred it does a better job of that also  : ).  You can feel a 1/2" pattern, 1/4" shank bit flex if you vary your pressure against the template.  Also, tongue and groove and large rabbeting bits like the bigger router.

Jay

 

[Frank-Jan]

I usually have the 1010 set up with a guidebushing for my hinge templates, and it's a pain to take out the guide bushing, set the plastic dust-shroud-hold'r-upper-thingy (which uses different screws than the guidebushings) en reset the guide bushing for every little job that doesn't require it. So I use the of 1400 for use with the edge guide, or bearing guided bits that need dustextraction. (I do have all sizes of the guidebushings I use for the OF 1400 aswell, but it's to heavy for use with vertical templates (doorjambs))

The of 1400's main use for me is in combination with the OF/FH; it attaches to it by means of 2 big screws, vs the 3 little ones for the 1010; and I can keep the settings of the OF/FH intact (door thickness) while with the 1010 I have to reset it every time I take it off. And with the OF/FH the extra weight of the 1400 is less of an issue.

I didn't buy the railguide for the OF1400 yet, I think it should have come with the router, like it did with the OF1010. (I used the 1010 with the guiderail for the first time last week (I have the router for almost 4 years now))

The 1010 is a very versatile router, and powerful enough for most of my needs; it's just a bit fussy to setup.

 

[rwdawson]

Greg,

Thanks for the update.  I got thinking about the relative stiffness of router bits yesterday (three hours on the road gives you a lot of time to think) and remembered breaking a 1/4 inch bit, and that it broke exactly as you suggested.  The additional points you made, as well as the correction, have given me a better understanding of the subject.

I think there is another factor, not based on science: it is my belief that people tend to feed smaller routers, with smaller diameter bits, faster than they do the larger machines.  If true, that would make it look like the smaller bits are more prone to breakage.

Again, thanks,

Richard

 

[ghostofhoward]

I cannot understand why there are no US manufacturers making 8mm shanks bits.I cannot stand to use 1/4 bits and have been buying only 1/2 shank for several years except for the occasional closeout sale on 1/4 shank bits that I couldn't pass up.Then I bought the OF 1010 and while 1/4 shank work ok for light duty work,I cant get to where I feel good about using them.I spoke to the owner of Woodline about introducing a 8mm line of bits and was told that there just isn't enough of a market for them in the US.I think the first company to offer them in the US at a reasonable price would make some big bucks, I would buy quite a few and I think there would be a lot of others who would do the same.

 

[James Watriss]

One other issue I have is that the cheaper house brand manufacturers will manufacture bits that are made in 1/4", that aren't really safe.

Somewhere I have a picture of a tongue and groove bit, about 2" in diameter, on a 1/4" shank. The guy who owns the bit was running it down some pine, hit a knot, and the shank BENT. It didn't break, which would be bad enough, but would at least separate the bit from driving force. I can't even imagine just how badly I'd need a new pair of pants after something like that.

I agree the 1010 is easier to use or various things, and I use it a lot with some of the jigs... LR 32, and it is a whole different tool with the edge trimming accessories and a spiral flush bit. But I think that I'd get rid of the Bosch, first. The 1400 is used less often for me, but the jigs and accessories that Festool has designed for their routers make the 1400 more versatile than any other "big" router I've used before. Last week I Was running a slot cutter down the edge of some plywood, using the edge guide to guide it, and mounting a cutting rail block on the other end of the edge guide rods to use as an offset base to make it more controllable. Made a world of difference. The micro-adjusting capability on the rail guide block has saved me a lot of time, too. The 1400 is not my first choice for freehand tasks, but the various ways to make a guided cut with it has me pretty convinced that anything is can't handle is a job I'd need a router table for anyway. (if not a shaper)

On top of that, dust collection is much better with Festool, which is pretty important to me. Bosch makes a nice router, too, but unless you're choosing based on financial return, I'd sell off the Bosch.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Actually, I led you astray. I didn't do the math correctly as I read through your post too quickly and was wrong with my reply. The rigidity is determined by the difference in diameter, not the area of a cross section. This makes an 8mm 1.5872 times stiffer. (8mm / .25 inch) squared, or .315/.25 squared, or 1.2598 squared) In the case of .5 versus .25 it's: .5/.25, or 2 squared,  or 4 times stiffer. This is the Easy one. Twice as big equals 4 times as stiff. Either way, these are important differences when it comes to routing. There is a huge difference in actual use between 1/4 inch bits and 8mm bits. Remember, all this talk about stiffness has been about the shank size, but the reality is that bits almost never break through the shank. They break somewhere across the flutes because the cross section of the bit is always smaller than the shank to allow for chip clearance. In a 1/4 bit a very high proportion of material need to be removed compared to its bigger counterparts. The ratio between a 1/4 inch bit to an 8mm bit, through the cross section, could easily be 2 to 1 or more. this is even more true in the case of a brazed carbide bit because the underlying steel needs to be cut away even more to leave room for the carbide. This is also one of the unmentioned benefits to solid carbide. Beside it being inherently more wear resistant, it is also stiffer and the entire tool is amorphous, or monolithic, so all material contributes to stiffness.

Despite the above correction, which I think is still not correct because stiffness against bending of a cylindrical shaft is proportional to the cubed power of the diameter, the overall point and conclusion is correct -- the 8mm bit is much stronger and much more resistant to deflection due to bending of the shank.

Dave R.

 

[woodshopdemos]

I use a larger router (3.5 PC or Hitachi M12V) in the router tables. Three are mounted in tables and trhat is their permanent location. I like thier slow start and steady power. I try to use 1/2" bits only and that is in all my routers. I love the feel of the OF1010 and the OF 1400. The ratchet collet is great and the duct colection is the best.