What Festool sanders are appropriate for detailed Pine window jambs?

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Jun 16, 2017
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I'm going to be refinishing window jambs on 30+ windows throughout a house, and am looking to buy the correct Festool for the job. I did research onhttp://topcoatreview.com/2017/03/which-festool-sander/. It looks like the R90 ( for larger flat areas ) combined with the LS130 ( for corners and detail work ) are the right tools for the job.

However, can someone please verify that these are the best tools to purchase? I don't want to buy $1000+ worth of the wrong tools for the job. See pics below of the window jambs.
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In my opinion you can easily use the RO 90 with the angle attachment for the corners as well.
So RO 90 all the way, if you ask me.

Be sure to have the edge-protector on when you are sanding near the window (maybe even get the edge-protector pack for different clearances). Also the "long" version of the triangular pad for the RO 90, which is another accessory, destined to enable you to sand in-between small gaps. I use this, because I feel it gives me more control if I really want to get into one of those fine corners (since the pad that holds the sanding paper is very thin in the front.

Just my [2cents]. And you'll end up with a sander that is really usable for lots of stuff and does not cost 1000,- ;)
 
Thank You! What is the recommend vaccum that should be purchased with the RO 90? Are there any recommended retailers. Right, now I'm just looking at purchasing everything from Amazon.com
 
[member=65314]woodwoodpolish[/member]

Agreed that the RO 90 is a good choice for this application.

Any of Festool's vacs will work well with the RO 90. It primarily comes down to physical size, capacity and price. Note that the larger the vac, the cheaper the bags (based on $/gal).

We offer 10% on any Festool vac purchased with any Festool power tool, fast free shipping on all Festool orders, stock virtually the entire Festool catalog, no sales tax collected in most states.
http://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-571823-ro-90-dx-rotex-sander.html

Feel free to reach out with any questions.

Shane
shane@toolnut.com
 
I can not really recommend on where to purchase. I'm in Germany so it might be a completely different thing in your parts of the world.

But over here, I almost never get anything from amazon. You can always get better deals at your local festool dealer or any of the professional online tool vendors. Festool might only be an option if shipping time is of concern, and you don't have a reliable dealer.
Otherwise, to me, amazon has always been no option for professional tools.

I think you can get any vac. Obviously, a festool one would be nice.
I would suggest to make the choice dependent on your needs. Do you only do small stuff? A little DIY here and there? Then maybe the CTL-SYS. It's sustainer-size makes it ideal to be stored away and also brought anywhere. But it's bags are quite small...
If you do more and move around, the CT 26 is a great option. In my opinion it is the biggest one to still move around. For example if you want to carry it up the stairs, it is just small enough to not hit the steps while being lifted with a straight arm.
Anything bigger (CT 36, CT 46) would be a great choice it you have a shop.

I hope this helps.
As  [member=48572]Shane Holland[/member] suggested, the bags get cheaper per volume of dust, as you move up in size. Maybe a longlife version might be good. If you want it as clean as possible, just replace the bags...
 
I just started a job this morning refinishing an oak staircase that has a pine window at the bottom of it. Used the RO90 with an interface pad and 120 grit Granat paper on the non rotex mode and a light touch to sand the pine. It came out perfect, so very happy with the RO90.

I have a CT36 for the shop and love it but the MIDI is the perfect size for mobile work and pairs well with the RO90. Plus you get variable suction that the CT SYS doesn't have.

Toolnut and the other forum dealers are all excellent and get you your stuff as fast as Amazon usually plus they sometimes can provide it tax free if your not in one of their states.
 
I dont believe 1000.00 in tools is needed for that. Look at those jambs! They are pristine. Unless they are far worse than they appear in that picture be very careful. One RO 90 on rotary by accident in the wrong hands could totally destroy them. I would use the weakest, lightest power sander possible, a more powerful sander can always be used if needed here and there. My concern is rounding or changing the shape.

IMHO, a 100.00 De Walt sander is needed, if that. Even a little 50.00 square sander will do those just fine. Possibly I would use a detail delta type sander.  If care isn't taken work like that can be ruined with an RO of any type.

Maybe I am too old school, but I might not even use a power sander for that!  I probably would use a wood block hand sander and spend 3-5 minutes on each one.

If  trying to sand out that damage on the left side a power sander may change the shape(put in a divot or cup)if trying to  sand deep enough to get rid of it. If the 30 units are getting painted I would fill the lighter damage like that and lightly sand flush. I hate over sanding and changing the shape, those look nice and flat. I would try to keep them that way. Many times less is more.

If you must use a Festool the RO 90 is nice, but be careful it is more powerful that one would think. Maybe the LS 130 could be used as well, but I sold mine its use is very limited. The Festool RTS and/or DTS 400 might be helpful too, probably what I would use for this application. They would be where I started for sure.
 
How would a scraper work?
Or a used DX-90 or LS130 work?
Or the vacuum hand sanding Festool ot Mirka block work?
 
Are you trying to take your jambs down to raw wood or just prep them for several new coats of finish? Also, do you know what kind of finish is currently on the jambs?

If the jambs are all in good shape and you're apply a couple clear coats all you'll need to do is scuff sand with 220 or 320, vacuum and tack cloth. In that case I'd use the new Festool Granat hand sanding sponges. They're available in 220 grit, but I'm not sure about 320. The Viles scotch brite pads are another good option.

If you want to take the jambs down to raw wood then I'd recommend getting an RTS 400 over an RO90. For the vast majority of trim sanding I do (I'm a professional painter) I almost always grab my RTS 400. It's short stroke combined with its weight balanced over the sanding pad make it very easy to use for detailed areas such as jambs. This way you're not make of mess of all the profiles. In contrast the RO90 isn't balanced very well so it's not as comfortable to use and the round pad wouldn't work well for most of your sanding.

The RTS is well worth the price and you don't have to buy the dust extractor, but if you are thinking about getting a dust extractor I'd recommend a Midi for sanding. If you also do a lot of wood working you may want the CT26, but it's quite a bit larger.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I'm going to suggest going yet another route.  I've had both the small Rotex and a couple of Duplex sanders.  I could never come to terms with the RO90.  Ever.  It was just too small for medium-large jobs, and way too unweildy for those small delicate tasks too.  In my opinion the ergonomics of the tool are way off, meaning that it's an extremely difficult tool to handle with any modicum of finesse.

In comparison to Festo's delightful Deltex, which is a powerful, lightweight and above all else easily handled and small enough to get into the tightest of spaces, the RO 90 was just a dog.  Proper delta sanders are becoming rare now:  everybody seems to prefer those Fein cloned multitools, which are, it must be said, indispensable for certain specialised fine cutting and abrading work, but due to their radial oscillations hopeless as sanders.  I also have an old Bosch GDA delta too, which with its smart array of detachable heads (st'd, extended, oval, flat and adjustable fingers) is even more versatile than my well-loved Deltex.

In ROtary mode or even EXzenter (orbital) mode, the RO 90 just won't like those narrow rebates such as occur in your illustrations.  The balance is off, and the tool (for what it does) just too large and top heavy for that type of finessed delicate rebate work.  Take a look at the old Metabo SXE400.  Slightly smaller head @ a "mere" 80mm dia. and missing the ROtary mode, but an ergonomic triumph in comparison.  Again, pretty useless at larger stuff, but for detail work such as furniture, convex curves, rebates, windows etc. it's delta sander type body, compact dimensions, single handed operation and smooth running make for much more satisfying progress.  I like it so much that I actually own 4!  The RO90 lasted only a month or so before I gave it away:  the final straw was trying to use it on a staircase when the other tools were elsewhere.  It just messed up all the finishes of what was a fairly significant historic property.  Unsurprisingly, the 4 Metabo sanders actually cost less than the single Rotex did!

As for the Duplex sanders, I once had 2, now only one.  There's basically nothing wrong with the tool, except that it's just a bit s...l...o...w.  Its limited stroke length, combined with the fact that individual abrasive grits tend to follow the same path back & forth means that it's actually much, much slower than a hand block.  Add to this the occasionally debilitating limitation that it must always work along the grain only, means that it simply isn't as useful as the concept first appears.  I could all but guarantee that your progress will be faster, more accurate and results cleaner, more uniform and generally more satisfactory with a standard extracted hand block with ordinary old painter's paper.  I've also found that premature clogging (even of stearate coated papers) was always an issue with these sanders, esp. when sanding back painted surfaces.  Despite having twin counterbalancing weights, they still get a bit vibratory too for long-term use, exacerbating my pre-existing carpel tunnel syndrome symptoms.

In comparison the orbital actions of the smaller Festo Deltex DX93E, Bosch Delta GDA 280E and Metabo Random Orbit SXE400, which should theoretically all be more vibratory, are instead all remarkably comfortable and smooth running tools that I can use all day long.  In fact, for all 3 the faster they run, the smoother they seem.  I'm guessing it's down to much smaller (i.e. lightweight) reciprocating masses in comparison to the much bigger, heavier and infinitely more ungainly Festo Rotex and Duplex tools.

I've been involved in renos (part-time) for the best part of the last 40 years, and wouldn't use that god-awful RO90 again for quids, nor use the Duplex on slender profiles & mouldings such as windows either.  Normally I'd have a bigger vac. (Festo SR5E or CT22) with vac hose & power cable y-branches & a couple of hoses for most window reno jobs.  That way both tools (usually the Metabo & Bosch) are within easy reach as required, extra abrasives preloaded onto loading templates, and spare heads for the delta in my top pocket.  That way progress becomes swift and systematic, even if perched atop a ladder.

From your photographs it appears that your windows are fairly finely finished but inexpensive & soft coniferous timber of some sort or other.  Using a Rotex under these conditions could actually leave a poor result, as previously mentioned.  Rotexes can be rather effective timber shredders:  my old RO150 can clean up old rough-sawn timber/paint/weathered surfaces almost as fast as a belt sander!
 
I would echo the previous comment about the limitations of the LS130.  It really only makes sense if you have curved profiles to deal with -- for flat, square surfaces, like you have on those windows, you're much better off just using a delta head sander like the RO90 or DX93.  The  linear action of the LS130 makes it pretty slow at removing material. 

 
I would do this job with my DTS400. One stop sander for the entire window, best result in the shortest time possible. I have owned every Festool sander available in Europe but 2, and done a lot of paint jobs with them. The DTS400 remains the nicest and the most versatile in my eyes.

The LS130 is simply crap. As said above, it is very slow, and I think it is only usefull if you have a lot of profiles to do with the same shape. I much prefer to do these profiles by hand instead of the LS130. Unless you have to do 100's of meters the LS130 is useless.

I cannot find myself in aloysius' comments about the RO90. It's a fine sander, but you have to use it where it works best. That's not larger surfaces. I find it a typical 'spot repair' sander and used it mostly when paint was so bad in some spots that I had to sand it down to bare wood. That goes very fast in RO mode, but that's basically it with this sander. I don't understand why aloysius thinks the ergonomics is so bad while the Deltex is good. Both sanders' shapes come down to a pad on side, and a long body on the other side, so weight is never centered for either of them and you have to correct that yourself for both sanders with your grip.

My gripe with the RO90 is that it is too expensive in use, its abrasives cost 2,5 times that of any other Festool sander. So I had to let the sander go for this reason alone.
 
Based upon the photo I assume that a peice of 220 in hand would be all that is required to take some shine off the wood.

What sander does the OP want under the pretence of needing a sander for these windows?
 
Holmz said:
Based upon the photo I assume that a peice of 220 in hand would be all that is required to take some shine off the wood.

What sander does the OP want under the pretence of needing a sander for these windows?

I agree
 
Alex said:
I would do this job with my DTS400. One stop sander for the entire window, best result in the shortest time possible. I have owned every sander available in Europe but 2, and done a lot of paint jobs with them. The DTS400 remains the nicest and the most versatile in my eyes.

The LS130 is simply crap. As said above, it is very slow, and I think it is only usefull if you have a lot of profiles to do with the same shape. I much prefer to do these profiles by hand instead of the LS130. Unless you have to do 100's of meters the LS130 is useless.

I cannot find myself in aloysius' comments about the RO90. It's a fine sander, but you have to use it where it works best. That's not larger surfaces. I find it a typical 'spot repair' sander and used it mostly when paint was so bad in some spots that I had to sand it down to bare wood. That goes very fast in RO mode, but that's basically it with this sander. I don't understand why aloysius thinks the ergonomics is so bad while the Deltex is good. Both sanders' shapes come down to a pad on side, and a long body on the other side, so weight is never centered for either of them and you have to correct that yourself for both sanders with your grip.

My gripe with the RO90 is that it is too expensive in use, its abrasives cost 2,5 times that of any other Festool sander. So I had to let the sander go for this reason alone.

Alex, perhaps you will allow me to explain.  My specific grievance/s regarding the RO90's "abysmal" ergonomics are thus:  size, weight, balance, form & operation.  Its true that the form factors are similar, but each & every dimension is simply larger in the Rotex.  Except for one crucial dimension, that is.... the "stepover" of the working head in relation to the body that allows access to the otherwise inaccessible rebates etc.  The smaller sizes of the Metabo, Bosch & Festo Deltex sanders, with greater actual stepover reach makes a world of difference where it's needed.  In reno's this is fairly frequent; in stairs, windows, wainscoting, architraves and the like.  The rather inconveniently placed & shaped airway effectively reduces this stepover dimension in the Rotex, severely compromising its utility.

In rough sanding/stripping operations, the narrow working diameter of the Rotex's head actually works against it.  It tends to skip & hop and is anything but smooth or accurate.  It requires even more of a "death grip" on it to maintain progress than even the much bigger, heavier and more powerful Rotex 150, where the width of the head actually enhances the tool's balance when "roughing it" in ROT mode.  The result is that what SHOULD be a one-handed tool (like its competitors) instead becomes an extremely tiring two-handed fight with what is effectively a bit of a rogue tool instead.  As you've used all the other tools that I've mentioned Alex, I think you know what I'm talking about!

It's all relative, 'though.  Alex,  as you've said that you've used every sander made in Europe, then I'm sure that you're aware of how smooth and easy (albeit slower) the 80mm Metabo SXE400 is to operate in comparison.  The same is true also of the Festo Deltex & Bosch GDA Deltas.  And how much more superior their fine finishing capabilities are in comparison to that which can be achieved by the small Rotex.  I suspect that it's down to their respective ergonomics: that indefinable feel of size, weight, balance and centres of gravity when actually operated.

heck, the RO90 can't even fit between (open) stair treads in a rise of stairs built according to the regulation safety standards.  A somewhat crucial oversight from the tool's designers if ever there was one!  What were they thinking?  If a purportedly "small" sander can't even approach the same or even similar capablities of it's rivals, then I personally consider it to be a bit of a dog.  If the tool can't adequately fulfil its design brief, that of a small, versatile roughing/finishing/polishing tool for smaller and more inaccessible "nooks & crannies", then it's a design failure.  If competitor's tools costing less than a quarter of the price can perform at least some of its capabilities in a superior manner then it's actually a bit of a lemon in my opinion.

As previously stated, it's just my opinion.  I'm well aware that to many its adequate to their needs & requirements.  I wonder how many have actually used a Deltex, Metabo SXE 400 or Bosch Delta in a back-to-back comparison?  Alex, you imply that you actually have, but is that really the case?  It is just so very, very much more than the respective tool's mere form factors that highlights the RO90's glaring inadequacies to me.  That the same Manufacturer's alternative tools are in fact decidedly superior in operation, use & results achieved only highlight the RO90's defective nature:  The RO125 & 150 & DX93E are just so much better at their allotted tasks than the 90 is.  It's game over as far as I'm concerned.  The RO90 is a poor tool.

But to a starving man, even rotting meat would seem a feast.  It's all relative, if you've never experienced anything better.
 
EDITED WHOLE POST - SHOULD NOT WRITE "STRAIGHT OUT OF BED":

I have done window restorations for many years - and mostly in that material.  :)
I would take a more simplistic approach as a few others have mentioned too.

Based on the shape and condition I would go sanding block, 180/240 (max) grit paper (depending on type of paint/finish) and make a few custom blocks for the smaller trim pieces. Seems like they mostly only need matting down. A sharp, smallish triangle scraper for digging out dirt in the corners and a small straight scraper for the running lenghts. A triangle scraper for the running lengths tends to sometimes dig in on the sides - not pretty.

For sanding the RTS400 or DTS400 would be my choice. Nothing else.

By the looks of it I am not even sure I would have used a sander.  [eek]

On windows in worse shape I use scrapers, sanding block, RTS400, EHL65 planer and RAS115.
Occasionally a speed heater.

That's all I need unless I need to rebuild old windows. I have been contemplating a DTS400 or similar and that is why I eventually bought a RO90 which I did regret in the end, for some of the reasons mentioned earlier in the thread.

Be careful with the scraper - don't put scars in the wood - use it sparingly. By the looks of it it won't see much use.

Save those $$$, don't buy gear you don't really need.
 
aloysius said:
Alex, perhaps you will allow me to explain. 

No, I will not, quit it!  [smile] j/k

aloysius said:
  It requires even more of a "death grip" on it to maintain progress than even the much bigger, heavier and more powerful Rotex 150, where the width of the head actually enhances the tool's balance when "roughing it" in ROT mode.  The result is that what SHOULD be a one-handed tool (like its competitors) instead becomes an extremely tiring two-handed fight with what is effectively a bit of a rogue tool instead. 

Not my experience at all. Sure, a Rotex needs a bit more force to handle than an orbital sander, but to me it's not a 'fight' as you describe it.

aloysius said:
It's all relative, 'though.  Alex,  as you've said that you've used every sander made in Europe

My bad, I meant of course every Festool sander but 2, not -every European sander ever-. Added this ommision to my previous post.

aloysius said:
  And how much more superior their fine finishing capabilities are in comparison to that which can be achieved by the small Rotex.  I suspect that it's down to their respective ergonomics: that indefinable feel of size, weight, balance and centres of gravity when actually operated.

I don't see this at all, superior finish? RO90 does this just as good. And you constantly mention ergonomics, but I think you mix up 'shape of the sander' with 'ergonomics'. Ergonomics relates to how a comfortably a sander fits your hands. But you constantly talk about the Rotex' function as a result of its shape. Those are two different things.

aloysius said:
  If the tool can't adequately fulfil its design brief, that of a small, versatile roughing/finishing/polishing tool for smaller and more inaccessible "nooks & crannies", then it's a design failure. 

Seems you have defined for yourself what its 'design brief' is. So it has a 90 mm delta head, so it must do all every other sander with a 90 mm delta head can. Fine, you're allowed to define that for yourself as you wish. Doesn't mean that's what the designers meant. Since it's a Rotex, the rotary and random orbit modes are clearly its main point of focus. The delta head is just an added feature. So it can get into corners. It was never meant to be a full Deltex replacement. When Festool introduced the RO90, they mainly showed it as a sander to use on window jambs just like the one in this thread.

aloysius said:
  I wonder how many have actually used a Deltex, Metabo SXE 400 or Bosch Delta in a back-to-back comparison?  Alex, you imply that you actually have, but is that really the case?

I own the DX93 for 7 or 8 years now, and owned the RO90 for close to 2. I had plenty of time to get used to both sanders and compare them.

aloysius said:
But to a starving man, even rotting meat would seem a feast.  It's all relative, if you've never experienced anything better.

No need to make a little stab like that. I grew up in a body shop and have been working with all kinds of sanders since I was 10 years old, in a professional environment. And as for better, when it comes to certain tasks, the Rotex sanders are a whole new ball game compared to the competition. The rate at which they take off material is amazing.
 
People mention hand sanding in this thread. If you only want to refinish that window, hand sanding should be enough, because it still looks like it's in perfect shape.

But with wood you often see that the grain pops up over time because it's a living material that keeps moving. Over here people often ask me to sand that grain as smooth as glass. Other people may like the rustique look of the grain. It all comes down to preferences.
 
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