What happened to the craftsmanship spirit?

[pugilato]

Caught this article in facebook just recently... thought I would share. NY Times - What happened to the craftsmanship spirit?

From reading what y'alls write, I dont think craftsmen have lost the craftsmanship spirit, but rather there is an institutional lack of interest in this kind of thing. What do you think?

 

[Theshipstore]

I have to say as a person who in my younger days spent 3 years in an apprenticeship with German Machinist who taught me a trade that back then was in demand and actually for fulfilling. That trade kept me in the craftsmen mode my whole life. I believe that my cabinets and other woodworking projects are actually an extension of my past trainings. I have tried to pass on some of these skills, but have found I have yet to find someone that wants to learn this skill.
I do believe the craftsman that we once knew is slowly disappearing and for me this is a sad loss. For those of us on FOG I believe we are those craftsmen that are still around and because of this site continue to keep this alive. I have shared good times with as well as shared things with my FOG Brethren.

Sal

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

We posted about that article over on our Facebook page earlier today, if you want to join the discussion there, or read what others are saying.

http://www.facebook.com/Festool/posts/433048303400178\

 

[ericbuggeln]

Most HOs are too stupid to appreciate craftsmanship. All they care about is getting a good deal, hence the popularity of HD. The "nice" McMansions built in the 90s building boom are already falling apart bc they were built with the worst materials allowed by law. The town i live in has houses from the 1600s still standing. Since 2008 HOs values have gone downhill bc they have a Porsche in the garage but no money to fill up the gas tank. Eric

 

[fritter63]

I understand where they're coming from, but at the same time, having just read "abundance" and "the lights in the tunnel " I notice that they may be promoting the Luddite fallacy ....

 

[Vindingo]

I don't buy it.  We can build houses just as good, if not better than "craftsman" of the past.  People forget that they built crappy houses back then too.  I have worked on many old houses that were held together with shoestring and bubble gum.  

The author seems to confuse a willingness to work with one's hands with craftsmanship. They are not the same.  The majority of manufacturing jobs lost to cheaper foreign labor were not skilled trades.  Yes, there were machinists, tool and die makers, and furniture makers that lost their jobs, but most men worked on a line requiring no skill or craft.  They had to work on their homes because they couldn't afford to pay someone else.  They worked on their cars because they couldn't pay someone else.           

Skilled day laborers?  Is that an oxymoron? Once again, craftsmanship ≠ willingness to work with one's hands.  I also can't wrap my head around on how fixing ones car as a teen translates to a job as a manager at Home Depot?  Is that supposed to be unique and I'm too jaded to realize it?  I'm pretty sure that inexperience is a requirement for a job at HD around here.  The less you know the better. 

I noticed that the article has changed names. A Nation That’s Losing Its Toolbox It feels more appropriate than the craftsmanship nonsense.  A friend of mine who is a writer often romanticizes the idea of work and craftsmanship.  One weekend about ten years ago, he helped me clean out a garage and tile my bathroom.  It has turned into "you remember that summer we worked together..."  I get the same feeling from this article.  Misguided nostalgia...             

 

 

[Stone Message]

I have to say as a person who in my younger days spent 3 years in an apprenticeship with German Machinist who taught me a trade that back then was in demand and actually for fulfilling. That trade kept me in the craftsmen mode my whole life. I believe that my cabinets and other woodworking projects are actually an extension of my past trainings. I have tried to pass on some of these skills, but have found I have yet to find someone that wants to learn this skill.
I do believe the craftsman that we once knew is slowly disappearing and for me this is a sad loss. For those of us on FOG I believe we are those craftsmen that are still around and because of this site continue to keep this alive. I have shared good times with as well as shared things with my FOG Brethren.

Sal

Sal

I understand the point. I used to teach woodwork but had to give that up but it is easy to make YouTube videos that can help pass on your skills to others. Compared to many of the contributors here on the FOG, I am a rubbish craftsman but even so I have skills and experience to offer to those less experienced. If you, or anyone else, feels strongly about passing on skills and techniques then give a thought to capturing your talent in one or more videos.

Peter

 

[Kev]

I don't buy it.  We can build houses just as good, if not better than "craftsman" of the past.  People forget that they built crappy houses back then too.  I have worked on many old houses that were held together with shoestring and bubble gum.  

The author seems to confuse a willingness to work with one's hands with craftsmanship. They are not the same.  The majority of manufacturing jobs lost to cheaper foreign labor were not skilled trades.  Yes, there were machinists, tool and die makers, and furniture makers that lost their jobs, but most men worked on a line requiring no skill or craft.  They had to work on their homes because they couldn't afford to pay someone else.  They worked on their cars because they couldn't pay someone else.           

Skilled day laborers?  Is that an oxymoron? Once again, craftsmanship ≠ willingness to work with one's hands.  I also can't wrap my head around on how fixing ones car as a teen translates to a job as a manager at Home Depot?  Is that supposed to be unique and I'm too jaded to realize it?  I'm pretty sure that inexperience is a requirement for a job at HD around here.  The less you know the better. 

I noticed that the article has changed names. A Nation That’s Losing Its Toolbox It feels more appropriate than the craftsmanship nonsense.  A friend of mine who is a writer often romanticizes the idea of work and craftsmanship.  One weekend about ten years ago, he helped me clean out a garage and tile my bathroom.  It has turned into "you remember that summer we worked together..."  I get the same feeling from this article.  Misguided nostalgia...             

 

What you say in your first paragraph is solid. Sure the pyramids are still standing ... But what else?

I think we get very confused about exactly what we should be hanging onto in the face of progress.

 

[ericbuggeln]

The pyramids were obviously built with alien technologies brought to man from another world. We are not alone....Eric

 

[rdesigns]

Our era is marked by greater home ownership than ever before, and the relative cost of owning a home is less than ever. What makes that possible is the huge reduction in labor costs. The means by which labor costs have been reduced is the increase in technology, but higher technology almost always means lower craftsmanship.

The trade I started in was plumbing. My dad and uncle owned a small plumbing shop, and all our work was far more labor-intense then (the mid-60's). Drain piping was all cast iron with lead and oakum joints. Water piping was all threaded galvanized. If today's plumbing had to be done in the same way, we would need at least 3 times as many plumbers, and the plumbing contract would be the highest single cost of any house-build.

Compare that with the plastic pipe and no-brainer faucet connectors we have today. Hardly anyone repairs faucets now because it's way cheaper and faster to scrap the old and install new.

Same can be said for electrical, HVAC and framing--who stick-frames a roof anymore? (A few, but those exceptions prove my point.) What about tile work? All "lick-and-stick"-type products.

And who today could afford to actually build a stone building of the kind that have lasted centuries? (And, who would want it when it was done?)

Consumer goods have gone a similar path--nobody wears out or repairs their clothes or shoes anymore. People just get tired of them and buy new, made-in-China stuff. Again, technology has made this possible. Nike and even Redwing can build an overseas, high-tech factory that can be manned by low-paid labor. These companies could not compete if they didn't, and Americans will not bypass the cheap stuff just to support home-grown labor.

Compared to my desk job, I myself would much prefer to build high-quality furniture for which I would be paid a living wage, or sell for a reasonable profit, but that idyllic life-style won't pay the bills and health insurance. Glossy furniture made in Viet Nam would beat me out far too often.

So, like many here on this forum, I build high-quality furniture and home improvements for my own home and family, even though the cost of tools and materials for these are more than what I could buy ready-made. I do it because I like to.

 

[fritter63]

BTW, for many years I've been joking:

"In woodworking, you can always buy more skill"

Festool has accelerated that.

 

[leakyroof]

I have offered to teach family members any of the skills I've learned over the years. Haven't had any takers.  I can't compete with an X-Box game controller... [embarassed] . I have no idea who will get my tools and equipment years from now when I'm gone( it had better be years from now!)  [wink]
My next door neighbor once ran away from my wife when she asked him for help starting our 4cycle snow blower one winter day when I was at work and she got a snow day from her work( some people just aren't the 'handy' type)  [blink] [blink] [blink]

 

[fritter63]

I have offered to teach family members any of the skills I've learned over the years. Haven't had any takers.  I can't compete with an X-Box game controller... [embarassed] .

Same here. I curse the Xmas where we let grandma break our "no gaming" policy.

Of course my youngest now has some interest , he needs to build instrument storage lockers for his eagle scout project.

Don't think he realizes yet that all I'm gonna do is set the rail, show him the switch, and supervise!

 

[bpitch]

I think that there have been a big shift in values in current society.
Before when people were building something- intention was to leave it for their descendants; thus, investments in households were percentage wise much greater compared to what we see now and quality of those goods too.
Now, it is rare when even children stay and live with parents ( forget about grandchildren). People are unwilling to invest much into something someone else will get when their house will be sold when they retire or pass away.
As well, another point was the easiness of travelling. Our grandparents did not travel a lot (at least not as much as people do now).  Going to Cancun/Hawaii/Europe/Asia was a extremely costly versus now. A friend of mine, for example, prefers to spend money on vacations visiting different countries rather than getting a higher quality furniture or else.

So, if before people cared more about tomorrow, now people care more about now. oh, do not forget about TV  [smile]

My personal view, we have to go back in our vision. It is more healthy and stable.

 

[Stone Message]

People have not changed but attitudes have due to the availability of manufactured goods and skills have been lost.

In the old days you had to either save for years to get something (a stove, a shovel or a horse) or you had to make it yourself. The latter was the norm and so everyone had the ability to make things, some better than others of course. Those good at one skill might be able to exploit their position by making things for other people and getting something back in return.

Now, everything is made somewhere else and all you have to do is walk into a store and get what you need. No longer do we have to save so hard, no longer do we need the skills from the past. That, I am afraid, is progress.

Peter

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

There has been pissing and moaning about this subject for decades.

In some of the old books I have about planing mills, lumber mills and the like, there was always a concern over finding qualified help.

It never changes, people just keep bringing it up over and over.

 

[Jalvis]

This is a common conversation.  I'm with Vindingo, Lots of "misguided nostalgia."  Things have changed but with it come lots of benefits....for example, flexibility.  One doesn't have to stay in one place or transport furniture or inherit the family estate.  Theres more freedom to be what you want...but with it comes trade offs.

Perhaps the greatest changed that has hurt the USA is the lack of real apprenticeship.  Without credibility one can't be a "professional" and therefore can't charge a professional rate.  With that change has come massive residential growth since labor is cheap and prevalent. 

Most people are focusing on the negative rather than the positives.  No one is stopping you from hiring a "craftsman" to build your house or furniture....but like everyone else you don't want to pay the bill.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

Our grandparents did not travel a lot (at least not as much as people do now).  Going to Cancun/Hawaii/Europe/Asia was a extremely costly versus now. A friend of mine, for example, prefers to spend money on vacations visiting different countries rather than getting a higher quality furniture or else.
/quote]

This is a massive sore spot at home.  Travel "entitlements".

 

[Tinker]

I learned a trade and worked at it for something over 30 years.  I had my own business and built many foundations and fireplaces.  I did mostly jobs that all i had to do was look at the plans and knew exactly what it would cost me to construct.  i had already built the same thing many times so i knew almost to the brick and to the minute what it would take. 

Every now and then, i would be asked to do something that was very unusual.  Those were the job challenges I really enjoyed.  i often did not make as much money on them because the problems were unknown.  i knew the mechanical problems, but the unforeseen were where the challenges popped up as surprises.  I often was asked to design something unusual.  the customer wanted me to design and build something that nobody else had. 

I would come up with an idea.  The reaction would be, "We've never seen anything like that. Can you show us something just like it?"

"Well, no.  you wanted something that has never been built before."

"Maybe if you could just trim it back a little."

I would think about some changes and a few days later, we would be back at the customers living room.

Read back the above conversation to know exactly how the revision conversation went.  After several changes, we were down to the excact same fireplace i had built a hundred times before.  Cheaper?  Yes.  Imaginative?  Absolutely not.

I have an album with many of the most unusual jobs i did over my 30 year period.  Those unusual jobs were very exciting.  One brick (or stone) at a time, yeah. But anybody who has pushed a joiner plane across the edge of a board, or trimmed a dovetail joint with a chisel to get it just right, you know what i am talking about.  Those people who really want something different are the very ones who are realy fun to work for and with.  They are the folk who i ended up with lots of stories to relate.  not always a lot of profit in dollars, but a wealth of memories.  Those were the jobs that advanced my own skills.

Today, i look at huge houses that could well be classified as mansions.  I look at the masonry and recognize craftsmanship.  Great skills. But where is the immagination?  There ain't none.  I see lots of technical skill in the finished carpentry, but little imagination in some of the biggest houses.

Tinker

 

[Frank Pellow]

My whole life has been lived according to the "craftsman spirit" instilled in me by my parents, grandparents, other family members, and friends.  I consider myself to be very lucky and I endeavour to pass this spirit on to as many other as I can.