what is the use of having a customer support department you cant contact?

[matt.mackinnon]

I am in Canada, and if you call the support in Canada they say that they are on the phone and transfer you to the USA that then say they are too busy to answer the phone and that you should just call back later.

Here is an IDEA FESTOOL  Hire some people!  Divert the golden handshake uber proffits you sent to executives and PAY PEOPLE TO RUN YOUR SUPPORT DEPARTMENT

 

[ChuckM]

I ain't sure hiring more people is the long-term solution.

AI seems to be the tool every serious business is looking at. Already, over the past two days, I received decisions done by AI, including one credit card application. One of the site actually says the decision is made by AI (to that effect). Both took seconds or minutes for me to receive the outcomes after I clicked "Submit." In the old days, such decisions would take a week or two to process and make -- because some human beings were involved.

ADP is already using AI to select (or deselect) applications. The use of AI is explicitly spelt out by ADP. I know one British organization investing in AI to perfect their hiring practice while AI apps are now available to help people find and apply for jobs. AI vs AI!

In my opinion, AI will impact our lives like nothing we've seen before -- not even cellphones and internet....

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[Packard]

Well, I wrote complaining to Starbucks about the quality of the coffee from their ne Clover machines.

The response:  Instant.  Succinct.  To the point—ignore the email.

They might even be rejoicing:  Yes! Another hot coffee drinker—gone.  Our plan is working.

Sometimes I get the feeling that companies like Festool, love their diehard loyalists, and are happy to take leave of those that complain.  It may not be the case, but their customer complaint systems surely point in that direction.

P.S.:  Less than 10% od Starbucks’ revenue is from hot beverages, and the hot beverages eat up an inordinate amount of counter space.  I am convinced that there are some executives that would like to drop the hot drinks entirely.

 

[grbmds]

I think that availability of Festool's Customer Service is variable, depending on demand at the time and, to some degree, you're right, sufficient reps to answer the phone. This morning I called and got a rep immediately; no hold time. The person answered my questions and I was off the phone within 5 minutes or less.

All companies that do business online these days, which is almost all, have significant problems maintaining a trained workforce. The resources need to be split, in many cases, between two or three types of contact; emails, phone calls, and chat sessions. Each company, I'm sure, tries to split up their resources based on their demands and resources.

No excuses for Festool failing in this area of business. It is supposed to be one of their strengths. However, I do think it's a more common problem because of the variety of ways you can contact any company. It's extremely hard to hire people for these types of spots, especially people who have the right personality and patience.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Companies love their diehard loyalists, and are happy to take leave of those that complain.

I've recently gone through a similar experience with Hilti. Up until a year ago, their service was utterly stellar, and despite the crazy-high initial cost of their tools, there was real value in them, knowing that if a tool broke down, it would be picked up, fixed and delivered back to you all within 48 hours - plus the local rep would show up and loan you an equivalent tool whilst yours was away being repaired. To a pro who depends on his tools to earn a living - that level of service is absolutely priceless.

But almost overnight - all that changed. It's almost like they hired a new UK service director who decided that 'the little guy' with only 5-6 tools didn't matter any more, and that the huge corporate fleets (Hilti's core business) should be prioritised. It's not just me - other Hilti tradesmen customers I know all say exactly the same thing. One buddy's a plasterer who uses Hilti collated screw guns to fix plasterboard/drywall to ceiling studs. Two of his four guns steadfastly refused to operate without jamming every 100 screws or so. He's had nightmares getting them fixed and his business has suffered, since the free loan service has been withdrawn. The 48-hour repair turnaround still exists, but it will now cost you £75 for the privelege - on top of the cost of the repair if the tool's out of warranty.

They've also adopted an unannounced new policy of only repairing tools back to 'good as new' status - and for me, this was the straw that broke the camel's back. I sent back a 7-year-old combi which worked perfectly well, but it needed a new chuck. Just a chuck, and nothing else. I received a repair quote of 70% of the cost of a new one, along with a list of other stuff which 'needed' doing to it. This tool only sat in the van as a spare. Sure - it'd had a hard working life, and was a little beat-up and tired - but it still worked well and did its job perfectly on the odd occasions I needed it to. So I refused their offer and asked for it to be sent back. They sent it back completely disassembled - (literally a pile of parts) - all of which needed special Hilti tools to reassemble (just like modern cars). Why take a combi apart when the customer's asked you just to put a new chuck on? It felt like going to the auto centre for an oil change, then finding that they've taken your motor out, and given you back a non-functioning vehicle with the motor and a pile of parts on a pallet. So my perfectly reasonable complaint was that I'd sent them a working, functional tool for which I had specifically requested a £30 component replacement, and I received a non-working, non-functional, disassembled tool back. My complaint went unanswered. They couldn't have given a s**t.

EDIT = AND THEY BILLED ME FOR THE NEW CHUCK THEY'D INCLUDED IN THE DISASSEMBLED PILE OF PARTS !!!!!!!

At the end of every tax year, I replace several ageing tools to offset against tax, and so it was at the end of December 2023. So this particular diehard Hilti loyalist replaced his two Hilti combis with two top-of-the-line Milwaukee combis complete with four of their biggest batteries and two chargers. Yep - it means another battery platform, but the rest of my Hilti 22v cordless equipment will go down a similar path unless things change. I'm not holding my breath ....

I totally take your point [member=74278]Packard[/member] - but even diehards will draw a line eventually.

Kevin

 

[Packard]

I had an “ah-ha” moment a couple of years ago after writing to Shop & Stop supermarket chain.

I wrote that all four of the plastic bags of groceries ripped when I carried them into my house.  I also wrote that I asked the cashier to put fewer things in each bag or to double bag them.  The cashier said that they were required to fill the bags full, and they were instructed that there be no more double-bagging.

I received a reply that the customer service rep would report the issue to purchasing to address the quality of the bags.  But meanwhile, reusable bags were available and would resolve the issue.

The “ah-ha moment” was when I realized that they engineered the bags to fail, and they were happy I was angry enough to write.  Their plan was working. Either I would buy the reusable bags, or they would be rid of a chronic complainer. 

Sometimes quality/design issues are a fluke, but other times they are designed to accomplish some task.

For many years, Champion brand was my go to brand for sweat shirts, tee-shirts and general workout wear.

But overnight, the previously generously sized shirts were Fruit-of-the-loom-skimpy and also much lighter weight fabrics.  The extra-large shirts that fit me for years, I found that the replacement XL shirts were too tight, and too short. 

I wrote to them that I previously was happy with their garments, but that I might as well buy Fruit of the Loom at a lower price.  The quality now seemed comparable. They suggested that I try the next size larger. 

I googled “Champion” and found that they were bought out by the parent company of Fruit of the Loom.  So some of these quality issues are actually mandates.

It has bee 3 days since i wrote to Starbucks.  No reply.  They are willing to give up customers for the change to the Clover machines. 

My guess is that the hot drink business is such a small part of their revenue, and is also a much lower profit generator, that they are willing to lose the hot drink business. 

They are not really a coffee shop anymore.  They are a fancy beverage and meal/snack business.  They are happy to sell you beans, but would rather you brew at home.

 

[squall_line]

They are not really a coffee shop anymore.  They are a fancy beverage and meal/snack business.  They are happy to sell you beans, but would rather you brew at home.

they haven't been a coffee shop for at least a decade or longer, honestly.  Most of their locations are now optimized for drive-thru business rather than loitering/sitting, other than a few within walking distance of a college.  And even those locations (in my area, at least), have shorter hours than the rest.

As far as selling beans and brewing at home, that makes the most sense for them.  It costs me $2 worth of Starbucks beans, give or take, to brew my daily coffee.  At their prices as of 5 years ago, that's what I would have paid for a similar sized brewed coffee with a single refill.  Granted, they're turning a margin on their retail beans, but not enough to cover the cost of labor for brewing coffee.

I'm glad that I'm mostly satisfied with a few of the offerings that Starbucks has as far as beans go; it would be more painful financially to drink coffee at home if I had to buy "gourmet" beans at >$20/lb.

 

[dlu]

My experience with customer support in the US is similar -- it's non-existent. About three years ago I had a kickback on my Kapex which broke the bracket that holds the "dust scoop." It's annoying, but I can still use the Kapex, so I haven't been "all over them" to find the replacement parts, but I have called four or five times to order the necessary parts and have been sent to voicemail every time. My calls have never been returned. It leaves me wondering what they think "SERVICE all-inclusive" means. It's very disappointing and makes it hard for me to justify the premium that Festool charges.

We also used to have a lumber yard the next town over that carried Festool. They didn't have a lot of space, so the focused on the consumables -- sandpaper, cutters, the stuff that stops your job when it breaks or you run out. About a year ago I went in to get a Domino cutter and there was no more Festool -- apparently Festool demanded that they stock tools and since they didn't have the shelf space they lost the line. I wrote to Festool and told them how valuable a local dealer with an inventory of the items that I actually need on a regular basis was and how disappointing it was to loose that support. Crickets.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip. told them how valuable a local dealer with an inventory of the items that I actually need on a regular basis was and how disappointing it was to loose that support. Crickets.

True with any tools or machines.

We're lucky here in Canada (at least in the big cities) that we have 4 to 6(?) Festool dealers around, including KMS, Ultimate Tools, which posts in this forum often, and my-go-to dealer, Lee Valley Tools. If an item is under warranty, I deal with LVT, not some customer service fellow on the phone at Festool. They'll take care of everything, including boxes and shipping for us once we drop off the tool at one of their retail locations.

 

[squall_line]

We're lucky here in Canada (at least in the big cities) that we have 4 to 6(?) Festool dealers around, including KMS, Ultimate Tools, which posts in this forum often, and my-go-to dealer, Lee Valley Tools. If an item is under warranty, I deal with LVT, not some customer service fellow on the phone at Festool. They'll take care of everything, including boxes and shipping for us once we drop off the tool at one of their retail locations.

LVT sounds nice.  I'm guessing Woodcraft might be similar.  My only local dealer, Acme Tools, has Festool shoved in a back corner and treats Festool questions with disdain, ranging from "who needs that expensive stuff?" to "ooh, look at Mr. Moneybags over here!" to, "Fes-what?"  I count myself fortunate that I haven't had to worry about going there for much of anything service-wise.

 

[PaulMarcel]

ADP is already using AI to select (or deselect) applications. The use of AI is explicitly spelt out by ADP. I know one British organization investing in AI to perfect their hiring practice while AI apps are now available to help people find and apply for jobs. AI vs AI!

What's interesting about those comics is that AI is making the hiring decisions. When I worked at an enormous software company, I worked on processing all the resumes submitted. This measured several hundred per day. But US law prohibits filtering resumes and job applications electronically. We'll see a push to repeal that law I'm sure so we can just use AI for the decision. The filtering I did was to categorize/tag by specific knowledge area so a group looking for specific technical expertise could just look through those resumes to make contact.

 

[Willy Eckerslike]

I dropped my OF1010 onto a carpeted floor (underneath a dust sheet).  Actually I caught my foot on the extraction hose causing the router to fall off the MFT style bench I had set up in my client's lounge.  There was an edge guide attached as well so that when the router landed it got twisted on impact and the plunge mechanism was now inoperable.

I reported it to Festool UK online admitting I'd dropped it. It was picked up the next day and returned two days later good as new for no charge.

It seemed only fair to offer an alternative scenario.

 

[matt.mackinnon]

I did finally get through to Festool.  It was an interesting conversation.  According to them support person I got, contrary to what the voicemail says, Canada doesn't have any support people at all.  I was told that they all quit.  So every support call gets transferred to the USA.  And then it gets deeper.  They only have 6 people in the USA for support to cover the whole of North America, so good luck between the hours of 11 - 3:30 est to get anyone on the phone as they get swamped with everyone calling as that is the lunchtime for hours for all the different timezones.    They just can't seem at attract any more staff to pick up the calls.

 

[peter halle]

...And in checking out job opportunities at Festool USA, yes, they do seem to have job openings for Customer Experience Representatives.

Peter

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.  They just can't seem at attract any more staff to pick up the calls.

If that's the case, there is even more justification and urgency for them to review and overhaul their customer service support...before existing, loyal Festool customers feel that their loyalty is taken for granted.

 

[xedos]

I am in Canada, and if you call the support in Canada they say that they are on the phone and transfer you to the USA that then say they are too busy to answer the phone and that you should just call back later.

Here is an IDEA FESTOOL  Hire some people!  Divert the golden handshake uber proffits you sent to executives and PAY PEOPLE TO RUN YOUR SUPPORT DEPARTMENT

Assume you called on Monday, which was a federal holiday in the USA !

So, mother ship was likely closed or skeleton staffed.

 

[Packard]

Back in the 1970s, I bought my first Hasselblad.  It was an ungodly expensive camera.

I didn’t remember the price but thanks to Google, I found out that it cost $880.00 with the lens and back. 

I also checked with the Consumer Price Index calculator and that is the equivalent of $6,567.00 in 2024 dollars.  So, a lot of money for a camera.

And it came with no guarantee.

What it did come with is the knowledge that Hasselblad would take care of anything that went wrong with the camera for the first several years, only excluding dropping it off the observation deck of the Empire State Building, or running over it with your Chrysler Imperial. 

They only started including a guarantee when there were laws written about guarantees, and they found out that failing to provide a written guarantee meant that they would have to make good on that camera-drop or camera-run over. 

Things were simpler back then—but don’t get me wrong.  They were often worse.

A old girlfriend of mine said, “They don’t build cars as safe as they used to.  Years ago, they never had to have safety recalls.”

And I replied, “The lawyers and accountants got together and asked what would a recall cost, and what would our legal liabilities be?”  Whichever cost less wat the route that they took.  So bad brakes could cost 20 million dollars to fix as a recall, and five deaths would only cost 15 million dollars.  So “Let them die”.

At some point the AI customer service will be better (overall) than the human customer service.  It’s the transition that will be difficult.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.

At some point the AI customer service will be better (overall) than the human customer service.  It’s the transition that will be difficult.

Not sure if it's already AI in action. More and more online sellers, especially the Chinese online sites, seem to be moving towards a simple model for returns. They approve most returns (low value ones?) in seconds and do not require the returns of the items -- if the reason for return is one of an defective item.

It has happened to me with Amazon and eBay, but not every time. When a return is required, Amazon gives me the option to use its courier service which will come to my door to pick up the return.

 

[Packard]

Amazon offers me a choice between sending back the item by dropping it off at a UPS store ($1.00 fee), bringing it to Kohl’s (free) or bringing it to Staples (free).

Obviously, the increased traffic is potentially beneficial to Kohl’s and Stapes, thus the no-fee option.

UPS stores would not be benefited like that, so the $1.00 fee.

Kohl’s plays games and moves the returns booth around the store forcing you to go looking for it.  The last time they hid it behind other merchandise and I had to ask where to find it. 

Staples simply has you return it to the help desk. 

But, the arrival of an empty shipping envelope defeated that system.  And reaching a Amazon rep proved elusive.  I did finally reach someone by email—but try locating that email address on the Amazon site—I had to google search for it. 

In any case, I expect that technology will eventually replace the humans in almost all cases.  But it situations where they cannot envision a problem (like them shipping an empty package), the systems will still require human backup.