What is your favorite pneumatic nailer for crown molding installation?

[JLB builders LLC]

I use a Senco fusion 15 ga angled nailer for FJ/ paint grade crown and base and the Senco fusion 18 ga straight  for all others. I haven't had any trim pull loose with an 18 ga 2 inch nail. with paint grade I fill the holes with MH Patch, found in home depot and works well inside or out with basically no shrinkage.

I'd you like the phnuematic over a battery/flywheel then try the Fusion. Nitrogen filled cylinder and shoots faster than you can trim. I bought both Fusions and do not need an air compressor 99% of the time. My paslodes are for sale and have low hours on them.

Are you happy with those nail guns.  I've waited to see the feedback from everyone.  Sounds like everyone is pretty happy thus far.  Any problems with nails not being set as consistently as pneumatic nailers.?

I trimmed out 2 houses with it this past few weeks and 800 sq ft of oak flooring. The first house was just 3 bedrms a hall and stairway for carpet and the second house was the oak, FJ base and oak shoe. Neither house had a single nail misfunction. The battery made it throughout the whole job and the depth set is pretty accurate once you get it set. There isn't any thing I can find wrong with it other than they need to do this with the complete line of pneumatic nailers.  In my Senco case was an offer for a free battery so I mailed that in last week. Battery life seems great, the nail rail pops off and I can store the nailer, battery, some nails and charger in a systainer 3. I will give it a few more weeks before I pull the pneumatics out of the work trailer  [big grin]

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I use a Senco fusion 15 ga angled nailer for FJ/ paint grade crown and base and the Senco fusion 18 ga straight  for all others. I haven't had any trim pull loose with an 18 ga 2 inch nail. with paint grade I fill the holes with MH Patch, found in home depot and works well inside or out with basically no shrinkage.

I'd you like the phnuematic over a battery/flywheel then try the Fusion. Nitrogen filled cylinder and shoots faster than you can trim. I bought both Fusions and do not need an air compressor 99% of the time. My paslodes are for sale and have low hours on them.

Are you happy with those nail guns.  I've waited to see the feedback from everyone.  Sounds like everyone is pretty happy thus far.  Any problems with nails not being set as consistently as pneumatic nailers.?

I trimmed out 2 houses with it this past few weeks and 800 sq ft of oak flooring. The first house was just 3 bedrms a hall and stairway for carpet and the second house was the oak, FJ base and oak shoe. Neither house had a single nail misfunction. The battery made it throughout the whole job and the depth set is pretty accurate once you get it set. There isn't any thing I can find wrong with it other than they need to do this with the complete line of pneumatic nailers.  In my Senco case was an offer for a free battery so I mailed that in last week. Battery life seems great, the nail rail pops off and I can store the nailer, battery, some nails and charger in a systainer 3. I will give it a few more weeks before I pull the pneumatics out of the work trailer  [big grin]

I watched some guys video on youtube and he shows how the surface of the wood trim where the nail enters from the 15ga. Fusion, leaves a larger, broken surface than the compressed air nailers.  Have you found that to be the case?

How do you feel about the nose on the Fusion 15 and 18 for visual nail placement?

Have you found these guns to be too big in any spots you've done?

 

[b_m_hart]

I use a Senco fusion 15 ga angled nailer for FJ/ paint grade crown and base and the Senco fusion 18 ga straight  for all others. I haven't had any trim pull loose with an 18 ga 2 inch nail. with paint grade I fill the holes with MH Patch, found in home depot and works well inside or out with basically no shrinkage.

I'd you like the phnuematic over a battery/flywheel then try the Fusion. Nitrogen filled cylinder and shoots faster than you can trim. I bought both Fusions and do not need an air compressor 99% of the time. My paslodes are for sale and have low hours on them.

Are you happy with those nail guns.  I've waited to see the feedback from everyone.  Sounds like everyone is pretty happy thus far.  Any problems with nails not being set as consistently as pneumatic nailers.?

I trimmed out 2 houses with it this past few weeks and 800 sq ft of oak flooring. The first house was just 3 bedrms a hall and stairway for carpet and the second house was the oak, FJ base and oak shoe. Neither house had a single nail misfunction. The battery made it throughout the whole job and the depth set is pretty accurate once you get it set. There isn't any thing I can find wrong with it other than they need to do this with the complete line of pneumatic nailers.  In my Senco case was an offer for a free battery so I mailed that in last week. Battery life seems great, the nail rail pops off and I can store the nailer, battery, some nails and charger in a systainer 3. I will give it a few more weeks before I pull the pneumatics out of the work trailer  [big grin]

I watched some guys video on youtube and he shows how the surface of the wood trim where the nail enters from the 15ga. Fusion, leaves a larger, broken surface than the compressed air nailers.  Have you found that to be the case?

How do you feel about the nose on the Fusion 15 and 18 for visual nail placement?

Have you found these guns to be too big in any spots you've done?

Interesting... have a link for that video?  I have a couple of projects to do this summer that scream "excuse to buy these nailers and only use the compressor for framing".  Is it really that big of a deal?

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Senco Fusion 15 nailer video

 

[b_m_hart]

Wow.. that's some ugliness right there.  Hopefully it was just that particular gun (or operator error).  The tech is just too sexy for it to have such ugly results.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Wow.. that's some ugliness right there.  Hopefully it was just that particular gun (or operator error).  The tech is just too sexy for it to have such ugly results.

Yeah, I really like those Fusion guns from what I've seen, so hopefully we hear some feedback from users explaining whether that's a normal occurrence or not.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

his camera skills made me nauseous.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I just spoke with a guy I know at Senco and here's what I found out so far.  First, the Senco Fusion 18ga. brad nailer isn't available for release until August so if Jamie Brown aka JLB builders LLC has one, it was given to him by engineering for pre-release testing. 

Second, the problem the guy is having in the video could be due to his use of the gun and the depth setting.  He probably has it set to overdrive the nail too much. 

Third 15ga. nails don't perform as well as 16ga. for mdf trim (been told that before) because the nail head of the 15ga. compresses the mdf a lot causing some excessive cratering and fuzz at the nail's entry point. 

Fourth, the Fusion nailer's nose is square, but relatively the same size as their pneumatic counterparts so visual nail placement remains the same. 

Fifth, expect to see more of Senco's finish, brad, staple guns and possibly roofing guns produced in the Fusion line, but NOT the framing guns.  Senco has a whole new technology for the framing guns that he wasn't allowed to discuss with me, but promised it would be so innovative.  Maybe they teamed up with Festool for this one.  I know, a Carvex that shoots framing nails.  [tongue]

 

[JLB builders LLC]

A nail gun company had the 18 ga listed, so I ordered it and they just sent an email yesterday ( Monday) that it won't be available til July. Good news is I get my $400 back to my card. They should not have it advertised for ordering yet  [mad]

On the 15 ga.... I am using wood trim, not mdf and I think the guy in the video needs to adjust the depth. I counter sink the nail but not half way through the material. as far as speed the bump and fire is faster than I shoot trim nails.

 

[b_m_hart]

I figured the guy was trying to countersink them through the trim he was installing... why else would they crater so bad?  Also, for trim, why not go with 18 gauge nails if you're worried about it?  Too small to hold reliably? (assuming his choice was the 15 gauge tearing it up and the 18 gauge)

 

[ADKMedic]

I have a Grex P650L pin nailer that I LOVE to use for crown molding.  It shoots 2" 23ga. pins.  I have put up two-piece crown molding in several rooms in my house.  For the inverted base molding, I shoot 15ga. nails straight into the studs.  I don't do anything with those holes, because they are covered up by the crown molding.  The trick with using the pin nailers is to shoot them at opposite angles.  If you do this, the pins will hold up the molding SOLIDLY.  The true benefit is that since 23 gauge pins make such tiny holes, you don't have to fill-in/putty the holes.  Just paint them (or stain them) and you are done.

For those skeptics out there, I dare you to give it a try!

Andy

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Sorry Andy, but I wouldn't chance that with my customers and I'm sure that tech support at nail gun manufacturers and molding companys wouldn't advise it --- just my professional opinion.  The holding power doesn't come from fastener length alone.

 

[ADKMedic]

Ken,

I understand your skepticism.  I also understand that holding power doesn't come from length of pins/nails alone.  That's why you drive them at opposing angles.  But think about it...  All you are doing is holding up a piece of molding.  I'm not trying to build a house with these things.  In a 16' piece of crown, I'll put about a dozen+ pins.  Every other pin is at an opposing angle.  That piece of crown WILL NOT MOVE.  Plus, there's caulk in the corners and between the crown/ceiling and crown/inverted-base.  [My coping skills aren't good enough for stain-grade moldings yet.]  Would I be able to use less nails if I used a 15/16 gauge or 18 gauge nailer?  Sure.  But I can fire those pins a heck of a lot quicker than I can fill nail holes and let the fill dry before painting.  

Nope, I'm not a "professional"...  I'm a hobbyist.  It sounded weird to me at first, too.  Just give it a try on some scrap wood and see how much force it takes to pry it apart.  In my humble hobbyist opinion, if your mounted molding/trim work has to go through that much force, there's something seriously wrong with the house.

Andy

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Andy,

I'll have an open mind about this and test your theory plus query the nail gun and molding manufacturers when I get a chance, then whatever I come up with I will post. 

 

[Electric Trim]

I have a Grex P650L pin nailer that I LOVE to use for crown molding.  It shoots 2" 23ga. pins.  I have put up two-piece crown molding in several rooms in my house.  For the inverted base molding, I shoot 15ga. nails straight into the studs.  I don't do anything with those holes, because they are covered up by the crown molding.  The trick with using the pin nailers is to shoot them at opposite angles.  If you do this, the pins will hold up the molding SOLIDLY.  The true benefit is that since 23 gauge pins make such tiny holes, you don't have to fill-in/putty the holes.  Just paint them (or stain them) and you are done.

For those skeptics out there, I dare you to give it a try!

Andy

Cupping on large crown moulding would be enough to break a caulk joint within 6 months.  I want both layers of moulding locked into the stud.  The difference here is that you are doing this "in several rooms in your house".  Some of us are doing it in every room in 10k+ sq. ft. houses for residential contractors that hold higher standards than 99% of contractors.

I already have the best professional painters in town coming behind me that could make framing nails disappear in the trim.  (Obviously they wouldn't be happy about framing nails but you get the point... I shoot 15 ga. nailers in any situation where I'm going on top of a wall covering like sheet rock or plaster)  I don't have any problem using a brad nailer on a wood to wood connection (cabinet crown) and even a pin nailer for smaller prefinished mouldings or micro detail mouldings.

Realize the consequences for me, if I were to pin nail a whole house worth of crown moulding and it didn't hold.  I would be going back and renailing everything (approximately 3 days for one guy $600) and the builder would have to back charge me for painters to re caulk all the affected mouldings, probably paint/touch up the ceilings where the crown pulled away and re coat everything, and a management fee (Painting $4k - $8k, management $1k - $2k).  Not to mention the devastating blow to their reputation I would make to their customer and referrals.  You think I would be working for them again...?  Doubt it.

Maybe I'll try this the next time I do it at my house or a family member's house  [wink]

 

[ADKMedic]

Electric Trim - Thanks for some explanations!  I will maintain that my moulding has not moved (2+ years post-installation).  I also used the pins on a simple chair-rail in those same rooms, which hasn't moved...  BUT I also did not use "large" crown.  I  just used the basic 3 5/8" crown (primed finger-joint).  I recall some of the mouldings that I saw in the millwork store, and I can definitely see it not working so well on some of the more substantial moulding.  I also definitely understand your skepticism/hesitance when doing it for a paying job, especially in a 10K+ square foot home.  Please understand that I am just a hobbyist/harry-homeowner and I DON'T have world-class painters following me...  I follow myself!    Thanks again for your explanations.  I appreciate it!

Andy

 

[Eli]

I can't tell you how many times i have been back on jobs that someone else installed the crown with 23g pin nailer.
I just don't understand why would anybody would think that a 23g can hold trim that size.
I use mine to nail my corners together on crown,also scribe molding/rope molding/dentil molding.

I'm glad I've never come across that.  Sort of like the joke told amongst some of my carpenter buddies, it's the caulk holding it on.

[thumbs up]

 

[Grasshopper]

I wanted to bump this old thread as I am planning to install 3 5/8" crown on top of my kitchen cabinets.

I first am adding some 1/2" poplar on top of the cabinets to "extend" the surface area/ backer for the larger crown (I'm replacing the small builder grade crown that was there before with the larger 3 5/8" poplar as I will be painting white).

I have the Bostich set that comes with a 16 guage finish nailer (sb-1664fn) and an 18 guage brad nailer (sb-1850bn).

I had assumed the 18 guage with a 1" +/- long nail would be the right tool/nail combo for the job, but thought I'd see what y'all say. (It will be wood on wood as it will be the top of the cabs). (Looks like the smaller crown was installed with a 18 guage 5/8" nail before.  My new crown is around 3/8" if a pin is fired at an angle, the face frame is 3/4".  I'm not sure if it is better to go with a 3/4" long nail, or get a longer nail and try to bite into as much of the face frame as possible)