What Next....MFS? Which one? What additional items?

[BarryL]

First I would like to say that I am totally sold on Festool products.  I am a fairly new woodworker and my desires for building include cabinetry, furniture and speaker building.  I have been putting my shop together for close to 3 years and still have a long way to go it seems.  Late into that 3 years I started purchasing Festool and now have the 55, 1080 MFT, CT22, OF 1400, Rotex 150, Domino, LR32 and of course clamps and other misc.  Great tools and had I really been introduced to Festool earlier, I would have built my shop around them.

Anyway, my question centers around the MFS systems.  I am interested in purchasing the template system and accessories for it.  When I purchased all of the other Festtol products, they all seemed like a no brainer with what I knew I would be using them for and mostly HOW I would be using them.  Mostly due to my inexperience with woodworking I am sure, I am not quite up to spped with all that the MFS can do for me and how it might help me in the future.  I read Jerry Work's MFS info.  One thing that struck me that Jerry said which really motivates me is how he strives for efficiency in his work and not necessarily the artistic approach.  Yet at the same time it has to be quality.  OF COURSE this is what I want.  It appears that the MFS system will definitely fit into this equation.  The problem for me is how I purchase it.  What first....what next and what accessories??  I did read one post here which outlined more details outside of Jerry's fine essay. 

What I am looking for in this post is what others who have the system are doing with it?  Are there any users out there that have adapted the system much like Jerry has?  I am sure that knowing what you need in a system like this comes from knowing how you normally do work and then how a system like this can enhance the process..  What has the MFS done for you?  What profiles do you recommend?  Others who have contemplated the MFS like I am currently, what have you learned that helped you with your decision to buy or not buy.  Bottom line, if you were going MFS, what would you have and why?  Thank you for helping me with this purchase!

Barry

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Barry,

I don't own an MFS system - yet.  I, too, am still settting up my home shop, but mine is a mix of old and traditional floor model tools as well as several Festools. I have read Jerry Work's MFS manual a couple of times, and a Festool factory representative demonstrated it to me earlier this year with a 1400 router.  I almost purchased an MFS to initially use it as a square to help to quickly reset my fence square on my MFT, but decided it would be better for to have a dedicated precision square which I purchased from Woodpeckers.  IF you check out Jerry's gallery, you'll quickly see that he is being modest when he says not necessarily the artistic approach.  To my eyes, his work reveals a lot of artistic design input.  I expect he is referring to not necessarily using the hand tool intensive methods of work that others may use.

Have you tried the search function on this site?  You should find quite a few posts relating to MFS.

 

[Tinker]

I had been interrested in the MFS for some time.  Last Janury, i went to the WW show in Springfield, Mass with the primary hope of visiting the Festool booth in opes of seeing first hand what the system could do.  as luck will have it, Festool no longer shows at the Sprinfield show.

Ultimately, i ran across another "system" that was somewhat cheaper and appeared to have same capabilities.  Once again, my life was influenced quite negatively to the foolishness of impulse buying.  When i got it home and set up, i suddenly realized my mistoook. The demostrator had shown how quickly his system could be set up to cut out pannels.  unfortunately, i had not been sharp enough to realize that since he was not building cabinet doors, just making pannels, it, in reality, takes a bit of patience and close attention to detail to make the thing square.  that, of course, had turned out to have been my second discovery, the first being that it just did not mesh with my MFT in an efficient manner.  After several attempts at making it work as part of the Festool system, it was packed into the box it came in and now is capturing dust.  If the time comes that i am doing some site work (away from home) and I figure it might come in handy, i might use it as it was dezigned to be used, clamped to a sheet of plywood.

Back to the MFS.  ultimately, i did get delivery of the MFS 400 from our good friend, "Uncle" Bob.  After reading many posts on the subject, i decided the 400 was the way to get my feet wet.  i will eventually get a couple of 700 rails, or longer.  I have not started any projects with them yet, but I have set it up into a rectangle.  The setup was very quick, altho i did find it necessary to fiddle a little to get perfectly square corners all around.  The problem was not an inability to make square corners, but I found if I wa not careful, there was a slight extension at two of the corners.  Once i recognised that problem, there has been no other problem of note.

I have not used it for routing, but I have set it up as a guide for cutting with my ATF 55 and guide rail.  I formerly used scraps of wood cut to same thickness as the project wood for that purpose, but as projects moved along, such "guide strips would end up anywhere else except where i looked.  Not very efficient, to say the least.  The first try was to cut wedges at specific angles.  I set my squared MFS at the desired angle under my guide rail and cut away.  Result with first attempt: perfect angle and repetitive.

The second experiment was to slice thin strips of equal thickness from a piece of scrap.  I just et the squared MFS uner the guide bar, clamped in desired possition and cut.  I was amazed that I was able to make repetitive strips about 1/8" in thickness.  gluable smooth.  In the past, i would never attempt this with my table saw, but would do it on the bandsaw and then sand. 

I won't be in the shop for serious projects for atleast another month and a half.  I will have more to report when the work becomes serios, but for the moment, i don't know how i was able to work without the MFS

hope this helps
Tinker

 

[woodshopdemos]

I havent used mine as much as I should have, but that may be the plight of the MFS..not to be used regularly but to be ready to be used always.
  Here is one section of website:
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/fes-mfs-1.htm

 

[BarryL]

Dave

My shop is also just like yours it sounds...some nice traditional WW equipment and here recently amassing Festool equipment.  I agree that Jerry is very modest and you stated it better than what I intended...he does look to utilize tools that eliminate time or that could provide higher quality.  I have tried the search function on the site and have read all that I could find.  It just appears to me that the MFS is little talked about.  I just wonder if people are looking at the system in the light of "I can accomplish most of what that thing will do with current methods of work like I always have been doing".  Example of this is measure, mark and place guide rail and then cut....or as Jerry pointed out, use two profile/rails to make repetitive cuts.  I know there are many other things that the MFS can do, and I know that my WW inexperience is showing thru....this is sort of why I am asking the question, so that others, who may be using the system can point out their ingenuity and how it has helped them...or others can point out that they can do all it can do already. 

Tinker

How many times have I done that already with my woodworking purchases...purchased something that I felt..."would do until I could get my hands on the real thing".  I too have read as much as I could here on the site about the MFS...and I am still a little unclear as to how I would like to go about making the purchase to get the most for my money.  Can you just buy the 700 rails seperately?  I read one post where Bob sold one fellow a 1000MM rail seperately.  I was thinking too that I could just get the 400....then I thought I wanted the 700 rails...do I have to purchase a whole 700 set?  And once I figure out how to purchase the right amount of rails etc., what other router accessories, or clamps, or profile bolts are handy to have?

I feel like a kid going to school these days where they are handed a calculator and a computer and never do learn long division or fractions.  I compare that with all that is available for woodworkers today.  The MFS seems to fit that mold for me which is why I am interested. 

 

[Eli]

I just recentl finished hanging 4 doors with an MFS, and it was brilliant. Not that you couldn't route hinges without it (calm down) but it was a pleasure to work out the offsets and be able to clamp door straight to frame and route both at once (minus hinge width). It was kind of fiddly. I would like it if it were easier to clamp in that config. I used an FS-rapid (It fits in the clamp groove!) opposite the angle guide that comes with it (there are two angles), and it worked, but it was only solid one side, top or bottom. Don't clamp too hard or it will pull the rapid in the groove, just like on a cutting rail. The down pressure of the router pressed the MFS against the work piece, it's just registered side-side by the angles and clamp. I 'm planning on using it again to inset some stanley drawer pulls on my work box drawers. It was intimidating to use at first but the basic rule is add twice the difference between the bit and copy ring circ to your overall template width all round (I think that's right, it's so much easier to do than write). You just have to get in there and try it, it makes so much more sense to use than to read about. Sorry if my description is lacking the technical bent, I've been at a beer tasting in town all night. ;D

 

[CharlesWilson]

I just took the plunge into the MFS world with the 700 system, two 1000mm rails and the router slide. I have already used it with my router to level the sides of some identical drawers that I fabricated, and will soon be using it to 'calibrate' a large right angle square that I constructed (as described by Jerry Work in the MFT article). It will also be used to position boards relative to the guide rail for the cutting of dovetail slots.

I have used it with my TS75 to repetitively cut some boards to the same size. It works just as Jerry described. It will also be used with the TS75 in the near future to cut some narrow strips (cross-grain for cosmetic reasons).

I would recommend getting at least one additional 1000mm rail (Sounds like Bob can get you only one, instead of the two that come together) so you can set up the calibrated fence. Jerry recommends this size rail because it has the metric scale marked on it and the 2000mm rails do not. You could accomplish the same with a mark on the standard MFT swivel unit, so the additional rail is really optional.

I have contacted Festool support to try to order two 200mm rails so that I could in effect have either a MFS400, MFS700 or virtual MFS1000 rectangle. Alas, the 300mm rails are not available separately in the US even through the service department. Neither are those neat little threaded inserts that are screwed into the end of each rail and allow you to assemble the rectangle. Maybe I should put these items in the Wish List section.

Charles

 

[jonny round boy]

Alas, the 300mm rails are not available separately in the US even through the service department.

Charles

That's because they don't make 300mm rails! They come in 200, 400, 700, 1000 and 2000mm (though as someone pointed out the 2000mm rails don't have a scale marked on them).

 

[CharlesWilson]

Alas, the 300mm rails are not available separately in the US even through the service department.

Charles

That's because they don't make 300mm rails! They come in 200, 400, 700, 1000 and 2000mm (though as someone pointed out the 2000mm rails don't have a scale marked on them).

Oops!  I thought I corrected that before I posted it. Looks like I corrected it in the first sentence, and then had 300 in the second sentence. Sorry for any confusion.

Charles

 

[BarryL]

Thank you all for the input.  This is what I am looking for so that I can get what most likely I will need.  Charles, do you find much use for the router slide?  Also, one thing people mention about the 400 vs. the 700 is that they wish they would have purchased the 400 for cutting circles.  Is this a valid statement?  Will the 700 do just fine?  So far I am thinking just like you did Charles...the 700 plus two rails.  I like that the 1000 has the scale. 

Eli - thanks for the input.  routing hinges does sound like another good use for the system and as you mentioned there are other ways...but with me being new, I am thinking that for the things I will be doing, if the MFS will do things of this nature at the same efficiency or better and with the same quality, then I put that in the plus column for the MFS.  Quick and efficient is what I am looking for...I don't want to know a hundred ways to do the same thing...just a couple good ways.  Beer tasting....is that what you call it ...hmmm..I will have to use that excuse tomorrow

 

[Tinker]

I have not had a chance t use the router slide for what I got it for yet.  I have alot of rough lumber and several short logs that i will be shaping up soon.  I use a couple of rails set up om my MFT and,up until now, a piecce of tulip with router mounted as a slide for jointing rough lumber faces.

i do one face and then run the oposing face thru the planer.  with the router slide, i hace a greater range for wider boards.  The slide is a whole lot more stable than the piece of tulip as it will not warp over time.  tulip is pretty stable wood, butno where near as stable as that slide.

i think somebody else has mentioned that he uses it for the same purpose.

Tinker

 

[BarryL]

Very cool Tinker...I may not need that yet...but it is good to know of your intended use as I may find myself needing one down the road.  Another question...in reading Jerry's MFS AGAIN...it discusses the "V" nuts...question is do they come with the MFS?  It doesn't look like it.  Which ones and how many would I need?  How do I order them?

 

[Eli]

Yep, it comes with four v nuts to match the two angle stops if you get the MFS 400 or 700. Also copy ring retainer, tilt protection whatsis, circle routing doohickey, adjustment tool (Wiha hex wrench).

I swear it was a legit beer tasting. It was actually a beer release party for a short run Hefeweizen. My head hurts. Sake doesn't mix too well with thirty pots of Hefeweizen. But the beer does meet my approval standards for general release.

 

[CharlesWilson]

I believe you can get V-nuts through the Festool Service department. The part number that I was given for four V-nuts with long screws is 493235. Verify this with them before ordering.

I have only had the MFS for a week now, and have used the router slide to get 6 drawers to exactly the same height. I expect that I may use it for cutting rabbets and dovetail slots in situations where using the guide rail would be more time consuming to set up. Jerry Work can give you a better idea of where it is most likely to be used.

 

[Jerry Work]

Hi Barry,

I think I need to clarify my statement.  I strive to constantly increase the value proposition I offer my customers.  That is a combination of aesthetics, quality and price.  When I refer to always looking for ways to increase my efficiency it is to be able to build the same aesthetic and same or better quality, faster, so I can sell the piece at a lower price while still enjoying a good return on my time and investment.  So, I do very much focus a lot of attention on the "artisitic approach" as well as the efficiency. 

Early in my career of building fine furniture I was uncertain of my artistic ability as I was formally trained in technical fields and had no formal art or craft training.  Very quickly I realized that I could not succeed doing what I loved to do unless I could learn the design/aesthetic side as few would be willing to pay if "all" I did was build someone else's design.  That learning process was a conscious effort over several years of reading, observing, photographing, measuring and then trying.  My own style emerged from those efforts and my many mistakes and it is constantly refined and expanded with every piece I design and build.  The signature that goes on every piece indicates that it is both designed and hand crafted by me.

Hope this helps explain my philosophy a bit better.  Thanks for the nice comments about my writing and my work.

Jerry

[/quote].........One thing that struck me that Jerry said which really motivates me is how he strives for efficiency in his work and not necessarily the artistic approach.  Yet at the same time it has to be quality..... 
Barry
[/quote]

 

[BarryL]

Thanks fellows on the V-nuts...I'll order a bowl of those as well.

Jerry, Please excuse my poor communication skills.  AS one poster stated you are modest about your artistic approach and I would agree.  I think more specifically what I see is, with your extensive experience and artistic ability, Festool allows you to approach your work in a more efficient manner to be able to bring out the quality and art without spending hour upon hour to produce results.  I feel that it is in me to be creative and hopefully one day be able to "create at a profit" but I am still learning much of the technical end of things.  I am definitely bit by the wood bug and now the Festool bug wants a piece of me! 

 

[Ned]

Barry,

Have you read the MFS:  Notes on the MFS thread?

Ned