What's the consensus on Festool Cordless Tools

[tomk]

Hey everyone,

What's the current consensus on Festool cordless? I'm trying to consolidate battery platforms as I currently have DeWalt (12v & 18v), Milwaukee (M12 & M18), Bosch (12v) and Ryobi (40v).

I have always wanted a cordless Jigsaw and the Carvex looks great. The star lock oscillating tool would be much better than my M12 with the screw lock. Other than those two tools I'm just not seeing anything that appealing unless I'm missing something.

As far as drills go I'm sure could live with the TID but the T18, PDC, and CXS/TXS are fairly lackluster compared to other offerings. I'm wondering if we are going to see some revisions to the lineup in the new future to be a bit more competitive.

Ideally I'd I'm looking for the following

Compact Drill/Driver
- Multi head would be a plus
- Physical clutch for delicate work
- Two speeds
- Descent light
- Brushless
- Well balance

Full Size Drill
- Plenty of power to drive hole saws and augers
- Side handle
- Multi speed
- Brushless
- Well balanced

Right Angle Drill
- Powerful enough for driving a 1" auger
- Multi speed

Impact Driver
- Light weight
- Capable but not overpowered
- Multiple speeds / modes
- Quiet would be a plus

I'm pretty much dead set on selling all of my Milwaukee tools at this point and since I only have one Bosch tool that really makes DeWalt the platform I should consolidate to. I would certainly miss having my M18 Surge and M18 Gen 2 brad nailer but I'm just sick of all the different batteries and chargers.

Is anyone else struggling with this dilemma? I really love the precision and balance of the Festool drills but none of them really fit my needs at the moment. Is it worth waiting for a refresh before I look to consolidate? I know I'll end up with two different voltages of batteries. I might be OK with keeping a single 10/12v platform and having two 18/20v platforms.

 

[squall_line]

I don't think you'll see another refresh in Festool's drill line any time soon.  The Impact driver just came out last year, and the 4-speed PDC is also a new refreshed offering.

I'm not sure I understand all of the requirements listed, or at least I don't necessarily understand how Festool doesn't meet them, other than the physical clutch for the compact drill.

To be clear, the T18 is a compact drill, the TXS/CXS are a subcompact.  So if by "compact" you meant "subcompact", then the only thing the CXS doesn't meet is the brushless requirement.

Based on my past experience with my Craftsman C3 set, the T18 is definitely smaller than that old drill was, but is far more powerful and capable than the Craftsman.

Have you tried the electronic clutch on the T18 or C18?  Once it's dialed in, it's extremely reliable and repeatable, and it completely stops the drill once it's reached.  My experience with physical clutches are that they can still turn a screw after they've reached their "chatter" stage when the clutch engages.  Also, I believe that most brushless motors will have an electronic clutch, since the motor is already controlled by electronics.

I don't think you can go wrong with just about any brand's offerings, and it sounds like you have a good setup other than not liking having multiple battery platforms.  There are plenty of guys and gals on here who have a mix of 2, 3, or 4 different brands of drill/drivers, each usually the best of what is on offer for a given category.

 

[waho6o9]

"I'm pretty much dead set on selling all of my Milwaukee tools at this point and since I only have one Bosch tool that really makes DeWalt the platform I should consolidate to. I would certainly miss having my M18 Surge and M18 Gen 2 brad nailer but I'm just sick of all the different batteries and chargers.

Is anyone else struggling with this dilemma? "

What a conundrum. 

Maybe sell what you don't want and see if you miss it and or even need it. 

I have Makita, Hilti, and Festool platforms and it's nice to have options. 

Good luck on your decision. 

 

[tomk]

I don't think you'll see another refresh in Festool's drill line any time soon.  The Impact driver just came out last year, and the 4-speed PDC is also a new refreshed offering.

I'm not sure I understand all of the requirements listed, or at least I don't necessarily understand how Festool doesn't meet them, other than the physical clutch for the compact drill.

To be clear, the T18 is a compact drill, the TXS/CXS are a subcompact.  So if by "compact" you meant "subcompact", then the only thing the CXS doesn't meet is the brushless requirement.

Based on my past experience with my Craftsman C3 set, the T18 is definitely smaller than that old drill was, but is far more powerful and capable than the Craftsman.

Have you tried the electronic clutch on the T18 or C18?  Once it's dialed in, it's extremely reliable and repeatable, and it completely stops the drill once it's reached.  My experience with physical clutches are that they can still turn a screw after they've reached their "chatter" stage when the clutch engages.  Also, I believe that most brushless motors will have an electronic clutch, since the motor is already controlled by electronics.

I don't think you can go wrong with just about any brand's offerings, and it sounds like you have a good setup other than not liking having multiple battery platforms.  There are plenty of guys and gals on here who have a mix of 2, 3, or 4 different brands of drill/drivers, each usually the best of what is on offer for a given category.

I guess what I am trying to say is this

1. I'd like to consolidate down to as few battery platforms as possible
2. Some of the Festool cordless tools are compelling (Carvex, TID, Vecturo)
3. Based on the data and reviews I've seen the drills are not... I mean the PDC for example would be a significant downgrade from my Milwaukee Gen3 in just about every way except for the interchangeable chucks. Same when comparing the TXS to the Bosch Flexiclick.

So the question is do you think that the Festool drill offering is compelling enough to switch them over? I wouldn't want to be in a situation where I'm needing to drill a 6" hole with a hole saw or a 24" deep hole with a ship auger and wanting for more power. Or even mixing up a batch of thinset. The value on the PDC just doesn't seem to be there. The TID looks great. The T18-EZ is definitely in the right direction but it's useless to me without a side handle.

 

[tomk]

"I'm pretty much dead set on selling all of my Milwaukee tools at this point and since I only have one Bosch tool that really makes DeWalt the platform I should consolidate to. I would certainly miss having my M18 Surge and M18 Gen 2 brad nailer but I'm just sick of all the different batteries and chargers.

Is anyone else struggling with this dilemma? "

What a conundrum. 

Maybe sell what you don't want and see if you miss it and or even need it. 

I have Makita, Hilti, and Festool platforms and it's nice to have options. 

Good luck on your decision.

Ah OK this is good - so do you own any of the Festool drills? If not, what would compel you to switch over?

 

[Coen]

Are you gonna do without a nailer?

The Bosch drills -60 and up have 'kickback control'. Something I really like, especially with hole saws.

 

[gunnyr]

I've pretty much given up on consolidating battery platforms [embarassed].  I have 3 different Festool batteries, the Milwaukee M12, and the DeWalt 20 and 60v.....  A total of SIX different batteries.....

I love the Milwaukee M12 line, the Surge, CSX, Pin Nailer and Rotary Tool get used almost every day.  My Festool PDC and CXS get used regularly as well;  if I would take them out of the Systainer I would use them more I'm sure.  It was the Rotary Tool that got me into the M12 line.  So far I have no reason to add another platform but......

I've taken the stance that I will buy additional platform's if it gives me a substantial increase in capability.  I certainly won't rule out a new platform at this point but I won't add a new one just because.....   

 

[afish]

97% of my cordless tools are Dewalt and I have a lot.  I simply refuse to add another battery platform. I do have a few makita tools that Dewalt simply doesn't offer but I use a battery adaptor.  In the end there is no perfect platform for someone who does and needs a wide variety of different tools. I find myself wishing Dewalt made this or that.  I have only ever wished for a cordless version of the ETS 125 REQ once or twice.  I use it exclusively in the angle attachment and dont usually have it hooked to the CT so it would be nice to have the freedom of no cord but its not a big enough issue to deal with more batteries.  If there was a universal battery platform I would buy one but that day isnt coming in my lifetime so even though I like Festool sanders they will always have a cord.  I know some really like the Festool drivers but my Dewalt stuff gets used hard. Rain, dirt, mud etc. so its tough to justify the cost of Festool for those conditions. 

 

[xedos]

then the only thing the CXS doesn't meet is the brushless requirement.

not exactly - the cxs uses a battery that is doesn’t fit ANYTHING else. So you’ll have to carry around another charger and battery that has no cross compatibly. 

Tom

Not trying to talk you out of ditching Milwaukee , but their lineup dwarfs Festool now and will into the future.  Same with DeWalt and Makita.  All have full size jigsaws and multitools.

Comparing a small 12v multitool with an 18v is an unfair comparison - across any brand(s). 

The big three also have multiple battery capacity to choose from which allows you to customize the weight and balance of different tools depending on your needs and preferences.

So the question is do you think that the Festool drill offering is compelling enough to switch them over?

I think the answer is: never.  They lost the little high ground they did have over a decade ago when everyone else switched to LiIon cells and 12v subcompact tools.  FT was very slow to switch over to LiIon and almost missed the boat entirely on subcompacts. As it is, they’re in the ship’s hold and taking in water when it comes to subcompacts.

 

[AlexThePalex]

If you want to consolidate your cordless tools into one, Festool is the LAST one you should look at. They offer so few cordless tools, only a handfull. Brands like Makita an Milwaukee offer dosens and dosens of tools.

 

[tomktest]

Are you gonna do without a nailer?

The Bosch drills -60 and up have 'kickback control'. Something I really like, especially with hole saws.

Well I have a few pneumatic nailers. Maybe I keep the Milwaukee and go with an adapter when the battery dies. The DeWalt nailers aren't all that bad - just annoying with the flywheel winding up.

I usually run the Milwaukee in the highest clutch setting when using the hole saw to protect from kick back. I think the one key version actually has this built in but don't quote me on it. I've nearly broken my wrist more times that I'd want to admit. It's a good point and I am beginning to place more of an emphasis on safety features lately.

 

[tomktest]

then the only thing the CXS doesn't meet is the brushless requirement.

not exactly - the cxs uses a battery that is doesn’t fit ANYTHING else. So you’ll have to carry around another charger and battery that has no cross compatibly. 

Tom

Not trying to talk you out of ditching Milwaukee , but their lineup dwarfs Festool now and will into the future.  Same with DeWalt and Makita.  All have full size jigsaws and multitools.

Comparing a small 12v multitool with an 18v is an unfair comparison - across any brand(s). 

The big three also have multiple battery capacity to choose from which allows you to customize the weight and balance of different tools depending on your needs and preferences.

So the question is do you think that the Festool drill offering is compelling enough to switch them over?

I think the answer is: never.  They lost the little high ground they did have over a decade ago when everyone else switched to LiIon cells and 12v subcompact tools.  FT was very slow to switch over to LiIon and almost missed the boat entirely on subcompacts. As it is, they’re in the ship’s hold and taking in water when it comes to subcompacts.

This is very well stated. As much as it would be great to be on one battery platform I agree it isn't realistic. I'm really just not a big fan of my Milwaukee experience which is sad for me being that I live in WI not too far from their HQ. If I delete the M18, M12, and Bosch platform I'm down to 3. Add in a few FT specialty tools (maybe) and I'm at 4 battery platforms (DeWalt 12v & 18v, Ryobi 40v, FT 18v). Honestly, I could probably live with all DeWalt (12v, 20, and 60v) and not be missing anything other than the surge.

 

[demographic]

Festools circular saws are excellent, but most of the rest of the tools aren't that stand out and they have a lot of holes in the lineup.
You will have to have at least a few tools by another manufacturer.

Looking back though, I've awlays been on a few battery platforms anyway with drills being different from my Paslode and Hitachi nailguns and depending on the group of tools its nice to pick the best tool rather than just make do with whatever your chosel platform dictates.

 

[waho6o9]

"Ah OK this is good - so do you own any of the Festool drills? "

Yes I own 2- C12s, 1- C18 and a PDC 18/4.  The PDC is too complicated for what it does, it's just too finicky, at least mine is.

Instead of using the PDC I use a rotary hammer, Makita 18v, and a C Festool drill and it's  a better combo for my needs. 

A serious drill is the Hilti SF 10W A22. Get er done..........
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[ScotF]

So the question is do you think that the Festool drill offering is compelling enough to switch them over? I wouldn't want to be in a situation where I'm needing to drill a 6" hole with a hole saw or a 24" deep hole with a ship auger and wanting for more power. Or even mixing up a batch of thinset. The value on the PDC just doesn't seem to be there. The TID looks great. The T18-EZ is definitely in the right direction but it's useless to me without a side handle.

I am a huge fan of Festool drills - to me they have the best trigger control of any I have used and the interchangeable chucks are great. I use my PDC all the time to mix thin set, drywall mud and floor leveler/patching compounds. It has never missed a beat. I also do not have trouble with large hole saws and augers. It might not be the fastest drill for these tasks, but it gets the job done. That said, it is all personal preference and if you do not like the tool and it is not right for you, go with another option.

 

[rst]

I love my CXS and C-18 but keep them in my shop and have the cordless sanders.  My service van is primarily Milwaukee 12 and 18v.  I also have Fein (Supercut & hammerdrill) and Metabo 18v (cordless vac, extended thin nose grinder and tapper) , and a Metabo HPT 36/18 table saw.  Just bought a Flex 18v polisher, the  FLEX PXE 80 12-EC for small work and am trying to avoid the temptation to buy the FLEX PE-150 to negate the cords used for my RO-150.

 

[xedos]

This is very well stated. As much as it would be great to be on one battery platform I agree it isn't realistic. I'm really just not a big fan of my Milwaukee experience which is sad for me being that I live in WI not too far from their HQ. If I delete the M18, M12, and Bosch platform I'm down to 3. Add in a few FT specialty tools (maybe) and I'm at 4 battery platforms (DeWalt 12v & 18v, Ryobi 40v, FT 18v). Honestly, I could probably live with all DeWalt (12v, 20, and 60v) and not be missing anything other than the surge.
[/quote]

What is it you don’t like about Milwaukee’s line or specific tools ?  Can’t think of any cordless tool that Festool has that’s specific to them.

I can think of many tools that Milwaukee,DeWalt and Makita have that FT will never have.

Nailers -already mentioned.
Tablesaw, Mitersaw, compressor, mud/thinset mixers, vacs, heavy duty hammer drills, and on and on. The outdoor power equip. is especially interesting. 

Milwaukee’s charger allows for charging of 12v and 18v if you’re into sub compacts too. It’s possible I’d need to carry around three separate chargers with Festool’s lineup.

One brand/ battery platform is very realistic, just not with festool.

EDIT:

so what does festool announce today ?
Cordless vac , and kapex.  Color me surprised.

Still doesn’t change much with regards to this discussion though.

 

[mino]

Consolidating to Festool ? Eh, good luck with that!

That said:
CXS is THE subcompact driver. It is a one of a kind tool which you either need (precise/cabinet work) or not (everything else).

Here are the tools which I would consider worthy of having the Festool platform /pro perspective/:
1) AGC 18 grinder, that thing eats battery capacity for breakfast but is such a pleasure to use, and is extremely useful at low speed (4000) for that ad-hoc sanding with a sanding pad

2) OSC 18 (multitool), no comments, just get this one

3) PDC - that 4-speed gearbox is a godsend, 3600 rpm speed on it is just worth it, even if it is not the most powerful drill out there.

4) TSC 55 and/or HKC 55 depending on your use case (+ rails)

Worthy mention:
T18 easy - excellent bundle price with two batteries and a good drill to complement the PDC.

Other tools are generally good, but not exceptional. So going with Dewalt may be the better option there financially.

One thing I would look at for any systemic approach is the Ryobi One+ 20V platform. They have excellent nailers from the RIDGID cooperation AND it is a great platform for those "need a semi-pro tool for those once in a while" use cases.

 

[tomktest]

What is it you don’t like about Milwaukee’s line or specific tools ? 

My first Milwaukee tools were the gen 3 drill and impact driver. They replaced some 10 year old Makita models. The spring and anvil on the impact are way too powerful for a driver. Unless you are driving lags you don't get much of any impacting action until the screw is nearly sunk. This results in slippy bit all over the place. I've had numerous trigger failures as well as have had the tool spin the wrong way a number of times. The drill is loud and unrefined. It will stall out if you press the trigger too quickly. The electronic clutch isn't sensitive enough for light duty applications.

I've had to send my Gen 3 impact driver in twice, my drill once, and my surge once for repair half way through my DIY basement remodel. The tools weren't even a year old.

The M12 batteries make the compact drills uncomfortable to hold. Their installation driver is a joke with that reverse switch on top and the weight of the attachments. And it is sooo loud.

The drywall gun is not fit for purpose. Collated screws don't always properly engage and are not consistently set. You can't get tight into a corner like some of the others can.

I'm not saying they don't make any good tools. I do like the new gen 2 18 ga nailer. The surge is good when it does work. The compact router is nice.

I just enjoy using most of my DeWalt tools much more than the Milwaukee. They are generally lighter, quieter, more comfortable, and more reliable.

 

[Cheese]

I managed to whittle my battery platforms down to 2...well, 3 actually because the CXS is its own platform.  [sad]

Festool CXS & C 15 drills, you'll not find a better/smoother trigger pull on any other drill. And the electronic clutch on the C 15 is above reproach...again, none better. It makes the usual slip clutches look like an antique from the 20's.

TSC 55 K, HKC, KAL, ETSC & DTSC, that's it for cordless Festool, EVERYTHING else is Milwaukee. I even got rid of the Paslode nailers and replaced them with Milwaukee.

So down to three chargers instead of the six I had before, less clutter & more room. Nice...