What's the difference between biscuit joinery and the Domino?

erikfsn

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
240
I've never used either, but my partner has a biscuit joiner. Can anyone help me decide why one would get a Domino rather than borrow a friend's biscuit joiner?

What are the advantages of the Domino? I have heard it is stronger, any ideas how much and what other benefits it offers?

many thanks,
Erik
 
Try it now, the comma at the end was causing problems.  Look down the rt hand side of the page.  Obviously, being on the Festool website these reviews will be pro-domino, but hopefully they'll help.
 
erikfsn said:
I've never used either, but my partner has a biscuit joiner. Can anyone help me decide why one would get a Domino rather than borrow a friend's biscuit joiner?

What are the advantages of the Domino? I have heard it is stronger, any ideas how much and what other benefits it offers?

many thanks,
Erik

I own both and would get rid of neither...but if I owned neither, I'd buy the Domino first, no question.  I'm working on a project right now that calls for both:  dominos for the 18mm stock for the carcases and biscuits for the 12mm stock for the drawers.

The domino is stronger, but IMO, biscuits are almost always strong enough for furniture applications, at least if you design the piece to account for the fact that you're using biscuits.  For me, the biggest advantage of the domino is that it's easy to index the first domino in each joint to get the two pieces perfectly aligned.  Next, if you can drive the dominos through both pieces from the outside of one piece, you don't even need to mark the holes--just make sure the two pieces won't move, and bore away.  Cut off the protruding stubs with a "flush cut" hand saw, and you've really saved yourself some time marking and boring holes (because you've halved the number of holes you'd otherwise have bored).

I really missed the alignment and "two for one" boring while I was putting the six drawers together for this project:  24 corners @ 3 biscuits per corner = 72 biscuits -> 144 marks and 144 plunges.  Missed it so much, in fact, that I've decided I'll never make drawers from stock that's less than 15mm thick, so I can use dominos instead of biscuits.

I still like having the biscuit joiner for 12mm stock (if I ever positively have to use it) and hinges.  Waiting patiently for Soss and Festool (or CMT) to team up to make a Soss hinge that can be installed with a special two-diameter cutter in the domino.  Hmm, think I'll take that over to the wish list sub-forum.

Hope this helped.

Regards,

John
 
I would strongly recommend reading Jerry Work's manual (jerrywork.com) to give you an idea of what the domino machine can do.  You can also try the search engine in the FOG as there have been a few threads on this topic already.  Lastly, I would suggest posing a series of specific questions about what you want to know.  Otherwise, the answers will be all over the place.  You can skin the cat in many different ways (cost, joint strength, speed, return of investment, coolness etc) depending whether you are doing this as a hobby or a business. 

 
I like the way my Domino helps me make drawers:

Bookshelf_002.jpg


and face frames:
Picture_0022.jpg


 
MarkF said:
I like the way my Domino helps me make drawers:

Thanks for the pics, Mark.  The drawer pic shows what I meant by boring the holes from the outside.  I see you use the 5mm dominos with 12mm ply for drawers.  I'm just not comfy with using a tenon that's > 1/3 the thickness of the drawer stock, especially with ply or woods that aren't especially strong (e.g. poplar).  That said, I wouldn't bet the rent that you'll experience even one failure as long as you use drawer slides.  More power to you.

Regards,

John
 
I am fortunate to have both a Festool Domino as well as a DeWalt plate jointer for biscuits.

For case work, I prefer biscuits using drywall screws between biscuit locations to pull the panels together.  That way I seldom need to clamp.  I'm sure dominos would also work just fine, but I am used to using biscuits and see no reason to change.

For face frames and cabinet door frames of solid wood as well as drawer construction, the domino seems like a better choice.  I like to make door frames with mitered corners so I can pre-rout the desired profiles before cutting.  I also like the looks of mitered corners.  Using a domino in each corner makes for a robust door, especially once a plywood panel is glued in place.

So, I will just keep both machines.
 
Hobbyist comment: 

I am lucky to own both a PC biscuit machine, and a Domino.  I bought the Domino with the last "economic stimulus."  I did not intend to replace the biscuit machine, but rather use the Domino to take away the drudgery of machining mortise and tenon joints when making furniture.

I saw the tool as a time saver; and suddenly my mortice cuts were exactly where I wanted them.  As a bonus, the smaller size domino joints can be used where a biscuit would normally be used, and also increase the accuracy of case joints.

As a result, the plate jointer sat in the cabinet for a long time.  I pulled it back out last week to line up some edging for plywood shelves, and was low on dominoes.  In that case, the extra slop in the joints worked in my favor because my wood scraps were a bit warped, and the margin of error in the cuts allowed me to align the wood.  Dominoes would have worked, but I would have had to use quite a lot of them.

At first, I felt like the domino might  be over-kill for my skill level;  but I recently priced a top-end biscuit cutter just for grins and giggles.  Turns out that the Domino machine cost isn't out of line compared to a high-end plate jointer.

Both machines do what each is supposed to do.  I am a farmer, so my best analogy would be to compare the tools like a rancher compares pickup trucks.  Most of us do fine with a 1/2  ton truck (biscuits).  Others spend the extra money and get the 1-ton Dodge Turbo Diesel.  Don't always need the horse-power, but it sure is nice!

Brett
 
John Stevens said:
I see you use the 5mm dominos with 12mm ply for drawers.  I'm just not comfy with using a tenon that's > 1/3 the thickness of the drawer stock, especially with ply or woods that aren't especially strong (e.g. poplar). 

John,
The application here uses a 3/4" Ash false front attached to the 1/2" Baltic Birch drawer front.  This extra meat prevents blowout towards the front.  The drawer back is 3/4"BB w/ 4, 5mm Dominos per side.  You can stand on the corners.  They don't budge.
Here's the rest of the project for my wife's quilting books and supplies:
Bookshelf_001.jpg


 
Thanks for the replies everyone. My question was rather vague because I'm not really sure yet what I'll be doing with it. I have a book shelf to build soon. Other than that I don't have a lot of use for it. I work in remodeling, but at some point would like to focus more on finish carpentry.

Erik
 
I ordered a Domino machine as soon as they were introduced in USA.  I intentionally avoided buying a biscuit joiner due to relative weakness of the biscuits for structural joints.  The Domino machine can do almost everything you can do with a biscuit joiner but not vice versa.  There is mich overlap in what each machine can do.  To me the primary value of the Domino is the ability to rapidly and accurately create mortice and tenon joints in stock without having to consume extra length of stock to cut integral tenons.  Cutting the stock to exact final length then machining the mortices for loose tenons is much faster.  You cannot build strong traditional chairs with a biscuit joiner, you can with a Domino machine.  As others have stated, the precision of the Domino machine joints is higher than with biscuits, even if you buy a high end biscuit joint cutter such as Lamello brand.

Dave R.
 
Hi Mark,

A friendly suggestion.  Try using uncoated paper to protect your work surface from the glue.  A coated paper will force the wet glue that squeezes out of the underside of the glue joint to spread out across the face of the work piece where it will soak in, be harder to sand out and may adversely effect the finish on that side of your work piece.  I also have observed that the coated paper tends to trap the moisture in the glue slowing down the setting time and requiring more time in the clamps.  I much prefer the uncoated butcher paper.  It absorbs a lot of the bottom side glue squeeze that would otherwise wind up on the work piece and wicks the moister away from the joint a bit better I feel.  The paper tends to tear away from the glue joint when you remove which makes it easy for you sand away quickly.  The coated paper will tear less often, hence seems to last longer, but I find has these undesirable side effects.  Hope this helps.

Jerry

MarkF said:
I like the way my Domino helps me make drawers:

Bookshelf_002.jpg


and face frames:
Picture_0022.jpg
 
I've got to echo the idea of using the Domino for face frames.  I've typically used pocket screws but decided to use the Domino on my current job (a large display case).  The process was just as easy and fast and the joint is stronger.  I guess the only reason I'd use pocket screws again is if I have to disassemble the frame.
 
Hi Erikfsn,

From my experience the biggest difference is that the Domino is the very best method I have found in over 40 years of designing and hand crafting fine furniture to control wood movement in solid woods.  It is vastly superior to biscuits which only sort of strengthen a joint but will do ok at aligning two faces.  When not glued, or glued only into one side of the joint, the domino positively locates two pieces in two planes if all the domino mortises are cut at the narrow setting.  When not glued, or glued only into one side of the joint, the domino positively locates two pieces on one axis while allowing them to move in the other axis if the domino mortises are cut at a wider setting.  

When glued, most all of the strength of any loose tenon joint comes from the face of the mortise and tenon and very little from the edges so side to side fit is usually not very important except for initial alignment.  The domino sinks much deeper into the adjoining work pieces than does a biscuit, thereby moving the bending moment over a longer dimension.  When the joint is stressed one side is placed in tension while the other is placed in compression.  The compression side is kept in registration by the strength of the domino tenon while the tension side is strengthened by the glue joint along the fact of the tenon.  

The magazine articles "testing" joints that seem popular right now all test a 90 degree, one sided joint.  That is, they join two pieces of wood at 90 degrees, then apply a force to the end of one while holding the other leg fixed.  They measure the amount of force required before the wood fractures and declare that a good analog for real world joint strength.  That is neither a good test nor a good analog from my experience.  Wood joints are seldom if ever one sided.  They most always work in combination with other related joints to transfer forces around the object such that no force is sufficient to fracture the wood itself.

Case in point, a rail, stile and panel construction.  The joints where a rail and stile come together are often just the stub tenon formed by the tongue on the rail fitting into the groove on the stile.  That is usually something around 10mm deep so there is not a lot of glue surface.  Yet cabinet doors built that way can last for decades if not centuries.  The key is that the bending force trying to tear the rail away from the stile on one of those joints is transfered to the other three joints in that same panel.  Make that same door with butt joints reinforced with biscuits and it will be much weaker since the bending force will try to rip the biscuits apart along their center line and along the long grain to end grain glue joint where they are weak.  With a loose tenon, like a domino, the same force is trying to pull the tenon out of the mortise along the long grain of the tenon where it is far stronger.  Very little of the strength comes from the end grain to long grain glue joint.

I actually make such panels/doors by adding a domino loose tenon to reinforce and locate the short stub tenon (10mm x 10mm in my case) joint.  I cut those domino loose tenons 5, 6 or 8mm in width depending on the size of the door cut inside the tongues on the rails and grooves in the stiles thus forming a haunched M&T joint.  This construction is so strong that I make glass doors this way with the outboard joints glued and the hinge side joints held together without glue only by long trim screws.  That way there is no ugly glass mold on the back side of the door yet the glass can easily be removed by simply removing the trim screw and tapping the hinge side joints apart.

I know people who will disagree and will strongly support biscuits or dowels or traditional M&T joints and point to the one sided magazine "tests" to validate their POV.  I also know people who build chairs using biscuits at the critical back to seat and seat to leg joints but I would never be able to sleep at night if I put that time bomb into my customer's home.  

Since the day the domino first came into my studio it has changed fundamentally how I design and build fine furniture.  My wonderful Lamello biscuit jointer now sits idle most of the time and is only used to cut hinge mortises for the Lamello hinges which I really like.  I hope these observations help.

Jerry
 
Jerry Work said:
Try using uncoated paper to protect your work surface from the glue. 

Thanks Jerry!
That photo was taken prior to acquiring this big roll of butcher paper:
IMG00009-20090215-1450.jpg


 
Back
Top