When You Don't Read, Understand, and Follow Users Manual

Rick Christopherson

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Jan 22, 2007
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This is what happens when you don't pay attention to where the power cord is when cutting with the TS55.  [eek]

[attachimg=#]

Yes, that is the other end of the cord poking out of the dust port.

[attachimg=#]

I'm pretty sure that pesky and useless owners manual might have covered this topic. Hey, do you think this is covered under my warranty?  [big grin]

Oh, I suppose I should explain how this happened. I was squaring the ends of some planks without a guide rail, and just a speed square. They were just rough crosscuts so I could stand the boards vertically against the wall after removing them from their stickers where they had been for several years. This happened on the very bottom board, and the blade was close enough to the floor to grab the power cord. Oops!
 
Rick:

That reminds me of a saying that I heard from an inhabitant of Barbados...

Even the monkeys fall from the trees...

Tom

BTW: I don't think they have any monkeys. I don't know where they got that saying?
 
That's the beauty about the festool Plug in cords simply by new cord plug it in simplssss.

Oh yeah gutted about that by the way. Did it make you jump? Did it go bang?!?!  Has it damaged your blade?

jmb
 
Something as soft as a cord can't damage the blade.

I had the same thing happen with my Rotex once, it grabbed the cord and wrapped it around the axle. The cord survived though, but my pad brake was chewed up.
 
A cord cant damage a blade !!

I cut through a cord with a Bosch Jigsaw.  Nearly blew the blade in half & scared the be Jesus out of me.  Its not the cord, its what is inside the cord  [eek]

Woodguy.
 
Alex said:
Something as soft as a cord can't damage the blade.

I had the same thing happen with my Rotex once, it grabbed the cord and wrapped it around the axle. The cord survived though, but my pad brake was chewed up.

Well DUH  [doh] ofcorse the cable it self wont damage the blade but  its the electric current which could of blown off one of the teeth could do the damage. Thats what I was on about.

JMB
 
Somehow my ego is less bruised from my cutting through the MFT incident. 

DOO-DOO Occurs. ;D
 
woodguy7 said:
A cord cant damage a blade !!

I cut through a cord with a Bosch Jigsaw.  Nearly blew the blade in half & scared the be Jesus out of me.  Its not the cord, its what is inside the cord  [eek]

Woodguy.

I stand corrected. [embarassed] I didn't know a jigsaw blade and a circular saw blade have comparable strength.  [tongue]

[attachimg=#]

But judging by the picture, you're probably right. [wink]

 
jmbfestool said:
Alex said:
Something as soft as a cord can't damage the blade.

I had the same thing happen with my Rotex once, it grabbed the cord and wrapped it around the axle. The cord survived though, but my pad brake was chewed up.

Well DUH  [doh] ofcorse the cable it self wont damage the blade but  its the electric current which could of blown off one of the teeth could do the damage. Thats what I was on about.

JMB

A 110v or 230v current won't do that either. Those currents are also too 'soft'.  [cool]

 
you say that but i cut a live cable with snips years ago and there was a 10mm section missing from them.   I had a new hitachi saw the other week and the cord became 600mm shorter after its 2nd cut in life.

good job it didnt spew out the live cable onto your forearm
 
Well Alex, it looks like you are right again  [huh]

Tell you what, you cut through a cable with a ts55 just to prove your point.  The 230v WILL do damage & have seen it on numerous occasions on building sites.  Who said anything about a jigsaw blade & a circular saw blade being of comparable strength ?  I think everyone knows the difference there.  I was just stating the point that i have experienced it first hand & its not something i want to do often.

Woodguy.
 
I know 240v will do damage Alex

I hit 240V with my hammer and lost a chunk of my hammer.

If you think your right well show us do a test with your blade see what happens  [eek]

JMB

EDITED: WoodGuy just beat me two it with the same comment!
 
No it wasn't that scary. I laughed when I saw the power cord sticking out of the dust port, and my immediate thought was the wording in my own manual about cutting through live power.  [embarassed] With as fast as the blade came to a stop, I thought I had hit the concrete, and that would have been a bigger bummer.

The arc flash could have been sufficient to take a chunk out of a tooth if it had pulled the supply side of the cord into the saw, but luckily it separated the cord fast enough that there was only a small arc....consistent with hitting a nail...or in my imagination...hitting the concrete floor. I was surprised that it didn't pop the circuit breaker.
 
Alex said:
A 110v or 230v current won't do that either. Those currents are also too 'soft'.   [cool]

It isn't the voltage that does the damage; it is the current in the arc flash. Same principle as an arc welder or plasma cutter.

With the house wiring's copper having a resistance less than an ohm (1.8 ohm/1000 ft) and a supply of 120 volts, the amperage during a dead-short can exceed 200 amps for a fraction of a second. I have experienced a dead short with a high enough instantaneous amperage to trip my main 200 amp breaker before it tripped the 20 amp branch circuit breaker.
 
I guess I know now why Festool gives you a spare cord with each tool that you buy...  Always wondered what I was going to do with all those extra cords piling up, but now I can devise some new science experiments...

Best,
Todd
 
It is the mark of a real man that not only does he use Titebond II as a secret ingredient in his BBQ sauce, but that when he makes a Boo-Boo he informs others so they don't do the same and can look back and laugh at it, after the fact!  [thumbs up]

So what's in the next episode Rick?  [popcorn] [big grin]

Rob, still in S.W. England in a field and suffering festool withdrawal symptoms, only 7 days 'till I'm back at work. ;D ;D
 
Deansocial said:
you say that but i cut a live cable with snips years ago and there was a 10mm section missing from them.   

This is another case of comparing apples with oranges. Snips are not a circular saw blade, just as woodguy's jigsaw blades are not a circular saw blade, just like jmb's hammer isn't a circular saw blade.

Snips, for instance are very easy to damage with one wrong move. I know, I've damaged plenty of them. In your example there is no way to tell whether it was because of the current or perhaps a wrong move you made when hitting the line. Chances are much bigger that the wrong move was the culprit than the current.

woodguy7 said:
Well Alex, it looks like you are right again  [huh]

Of course I am right, again.  [cool]

woodguy7 said:
Tell you what, you cut through a cable with a ts55 just to prove your point. 

I don't know, but why should I have to repeat the point that is already proven? You are talking about a jigsaw. Jmb is talking about a hammer. Deansocial is talking about a pair of snips. I am the one reacting to jmb's question above, sticking by the tool at hand, the TS55 circular saw, and 'remarkably', my point is proven already.

---->> Rick himself said there was no damage.

With that result in our pocket, why don't you and everybody else prove me wrong? I am the only one speaking from a proven test result here. The involuntary experiment above had the result that there was no damage to any teeth.

woodguy7 said:
The 230v WILL do damage & have seen it on numerous occasions on building sites. 

With all respect, I find this a bit hard to believe. First off, cutting through electric cords does happen but it still is not a very regular thing. Second, the number of occasions where cutting through electric cords actually leads to real injury or material damage beyond the cord itself is minute. Most of the time simply nothing happens except for people thinking "Oh crap" and laughing it off.

woodguy7 said:
Who said anything about a jigsaw blade & a circular saw blade being of comparable strength ?  I think everyone knows the difference there.  I was just stating the point that i have experienced it first hand & its not something i want to do often.

Woodguy, you yourself said this:

woodguy7 said:
A cord cant damage a blade !!

While jmb's question was about damage to the circular saw blade, to which I reacted and stayed on topic, your remark was meant to counter my argument by bringing up the jigsaw blade. At that point you thought it was fair to compare a jigsaw blade to a circular saw blade simply because both are 'blades'. I simply pointed out at that point that you were comparing apples to oranges, which you should not do.

A circular saw blade is a lot bigger, it is also a lot thicker (1 mm vs 2,2 or 2,6 mm), and it is made from harder material than a jigsaw blade. And, on top of that, a circular saw blade spins at an enormous rate so it has a large momentum. Now I can understand that it scared the bejeebus out of you when you hit the cord with your jigsaw, but I am pretty sure the damage to your blade wasn't even done because of the current but because of the material. If you unexpectedly cut a metal wire with a jigsaw blade meant for wood, there's a big change you don't cut it through right away because of it's flexibility, but that it gets pulled up and torn apart. This of course will put great force on the saw which in turn will damage the blade and make the saw jump in your hand. That's undoubtedly a scary experience but that doesn't mean the current is the culprit of the damage.

jmbfestool said:
If you think your right well show us do a test with your blade see what happens  [eek]

Well, I believe Rick already performed this experiment for us .......... and you know the answer.
 
Rick Christopherson said:
Alex said:
A 110v or 230v current won't do that either. Those currents are also too 'soft'.  [cool]

It isn't the voltage that does the damage; it is the current in the arc flash. Same principle as an arc welder or plasma cutter.

With the house wiring's copper having a resistance less than an ohm (1.8 ohm/1000 ft) and a supply of 120 volts, the amperage during a dead-short can exceed 200 amps for a fraction of a second. I have experienced a dead short with a high enough instantaneous amperage to trip my main 200 amp breaker before it tripped the 20 amp branch circuit breaker.

That is true, I have experienced this myself too once. Arcs with a high amperage can exist for a fraction of a second. But lets stick to this particular situation where we're not just talking about a possible arc, but also about a fast moving blade. First off, actual arcing is rare in the case of a short circuit. Most of the time there is no arcing at all because there's metal on metal contact. An arc only comes to life when it suddenly decides it wants to travel through air and the metal is close enough. 

But for an arc to do damage to a metal is has to strike a spot and make that spot so hot that a structural failure at that spot becomes reality. That means it has to make it so hot that it either melts or becomes weak enough to be ripped apart by the force of the collision. But, in this particular case of a blade that's spinning with a rate of a good 5000 rpm even a fraction of a second means the electric arc is spread over an  area and not just one spot. The TS55 is rated at 2000-5200 rpm which in the lower case means it makes a good 30 revolutions per second and in the higher case around 85 revolutions per second.

If you've used the standard 48 tooth this means that per second 85 x 48 = 4080 teeth pass a fixed spot. So in the rare case of an actual arc existing it has exactly 1/4080th of a second to make the metal so hot that it will somehow fail. And then take in consideration that we're not talking about standard construction steel but about especially hardened steel of the blade, superior HM steel in the teeth, and a superior weld that holds blade and teeth together, then we're talking about a minute chance on actual damage. A chance that's in the order of getting hit by plane on your way home or something exceptional like that. It does happen sometimes, but it's one of those rarities you can't take into serious consideration.

 
Alex, it looks like you have an answer for everyone & have all the technical information to prove it.  I think the thing that gets everyone replying to your comments so much is the amount of sarcasm you use which i feel is un called for.  It looks like you are looking to start an argument just for the heck of it, or am i the only one that thinks this ?

Woodguy.
 
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