Where to start

Jmaichel

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Joined
Aug 27, 2010
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152
I know this topic has probably been covered several times but I truly believe that everyone's situation is different. I will give you all a quick background. I am a fairly new woodworker with a limited set of tools. I used to own a crappy table saw and a lunchbox planer. I had not been happy with the performance of either of those tools and so I dumped them. I have been going back a forth between a traditional shop and a mostly Festool shop. The one problem I have with a traditional shop is that I am limited on space and can only support 110v and 220 is not in my future. I was concerned that if I went with a traditional shop that I would eventually want to upgrade all the tools that I bought once I have a more permanent location and can support 220v power tools. Anyway all this has led me back to Festool shop. I currently have a Ridgid Drill Press, Cordless drill, some clamps, hand saws and chisels. One caveat I do not plan on purchasing an MFT/3 I prefer to have build a table to certain dimensions and put in a CNCed MDF top. It's going to take me about four months to make all of the purchases so I am going to buy in stages. I will have around 1500 in Oct, 1100 in Nov and another 1400 in Jan/Feb, based on this information what do you suggest I go with. A couple last oh by the ways, I am not going to be able to buy anything else for another 1 1/2. I intend to build mostly furniture. Thanks for the help!

James
 
Hi James, welcome to the forum.

I would start with the TS55 and a dust extractor CT 22 or CT 26 and some guide rails and also look at getting the Kapex 120 next. Router wise the OF1400 is very versatile and a sander like the ETS 150/3.

I started with the TS55 and it completely changed the way I worked, one tool soon led to another as the system develops. I would look at budgeting for accessories to get the most out of the tools.

Hope that helps, I'm sure there will be plenty more opinions in response to your post.

Jonathan

 
I live in San Diego for now but I am moving to Washington state in Feb. A TS-55 is first on my list. Why a Kapex instead of a dominio? I have smaller hands so the 5" ETS 125 could be enough sander for me.

James
 
James:

A TS saw and CT dust extractor is a good place to start. Buying them together, you get 10% off the CT.

The next thing you'd need is a way to mill so a router is a likely second and possibly, a Domino for joining.

After you have everything cut and milled, you'll most likely want to sand. In my opinion, you can't beat a Rotex, unless you have to get into corners or sand rounds. For corners, there are the DTS 400, the DX 93, and possibly the RTS 400 or LS 130. For rounds or other odd edges, you can't beat the LS 130.

I ordered that like a project.

Tom
 
I'd add the following to Jonathan's list:

a jointer with a 6 inch bed that runs on 120 volts
a planer like the one I've been very happy with 13 inch Delta 22-580 discontinued, but probably still available on places like ebay
Rotex RO150FEQ sander
good selection of blades appropriate for your work with the TS55
Kreg pocket hole kit
maybe a small edge banding machine or at least an iron
finishing equiptment if you plan on doing spraying
Domino machine
router in a home made table or a store bought one with a good selection of bits
 
Hi James,

I wouldn't say Kapex over the Domino, I actually just forgot about the domino. If your budget stretches I would go for it if it's furniture that you will producing. The Kapex is expensive but for my money worth every penny ( or Cent ). I share a workshop complex with a couple of other guys who own other brands of mitre saws and both of them want to replace there saws to the Kapex because of the accuracy and quality of cut. I hope they do soon because the keep coming into my shop to use it.

As for the sander I also have small hands and find the ETS 150/3 very comfortable to use and wouldn't go down the 125 route as a starting point. Like the others mentioned the Rotex is another good option for versatility but a bit more expensive.
 
All good suggestions for you to acquire.  
I would look at the type of projects & woodworking you plan to do and buy according to support for those projects.  Most everyone would agree that the TS55 and a CT are the best place to start with Festools as they get used in virtually any project that you used to use a table saw for.
 
Jmaichel said:
I live in San Diego for now but I am moving to Washington state in Feb. A TS-55 is first on my list. Why a Kapex instead of a dominio? I have smaller hands so the 5" ETS 125 could be enough sander for me.

James

Since you will be moving shortly, you might want to holding off getting the larger tools like a jointer until after the move.  Where will you be moving to in Washington?  If your new home will accommodate 220, you might consider the 8" Grizzly Jointer -- it has a much larger table than the smaller 6" models, and there is a Grizzly store in Bellingham.  

Like Jonathan, I would also recommend the ETS 150/3 over the ETS 125.  You won't be disappointed.
 
I would start with the TS55 and a dust extractor. The CTs are compatible with all tools. I would also get the OF1400 and a rotex sander at some point.

These three tools and the extractor are the heart of the workshop. The domino, kapex, MFT are amazing (well I don't have a kapex but so they say) but they are not necessarily primary purchases.

My woodworking odyssey began with a workbench. I made my own, using pre-finished lumber to the dimensions I requested. A router was next, but it wasn't a festool. Mistake but not fatal.

Festools began with the rotex, followed by a domino, TS55 and an OF1400. As I said earlier, the domino is amazing but I would get the ts55 and OF1400 first.

Last week I cracked and got an MFT. It's hard to explain but it changes everything. But on a budget it can wait. I spread out my purchases over several months a) to stop the wife noticing the steady accumulation of tools and b) to always have something to look forward too!

Richard.

 
Richard Leon said:
I would start with the TS55 and a dust extractor. The CTs are compatible with all tools. I would also get the OF1400 and a rotex sander at some point.

These three tools and the extractor are the heart of the workshop. The domino, kapex, MFT are amazing (well I don't have a kapex but so they say) but they are not necessarily primary purchases.

My woodworking odyssey began with a workbench. I made my own, using pre-finished lumber to the dimensions I requested. A router was next, but it wasn't a festool. Mistake but not fatal.

Festools began with the rotex, followed by a domino, TS55 and an OF1400. As I said earlier, the domino is amazing but I would get the ts55 and OF1400 first.

Last week I cracked and got an MFT. It's hard to explain but it changes everything. But on a budget it can wait. I spread out my purchases over several months a) to stop the wife noticing the steady accumulation of tools and b) to always have something to look forward too!

Richard.

Richard reminded me about the MFT/3 -- You mentioned that you want to build a bench with holes but I wouldn't rule out the MFT because it folds to take very little space and it really does change the way that you work.  I would say that the TS55, CT vac and MFT are the basic triad to start any workshop from scratch.
 
Corwin said:
Jmaichel said:
I live in San Diego for now but I am moving to Washington state in Feb. A TS-55 is first on my list. Why a Kapex instead of a dominio? I have smaller hands so the 5" ETS 125 could be enough sander for me.

James

Since you will be moving shortly, you might want to holding off getting the larger tools like a jointer until after the move.  Where will you be moving to in Washington?  If your new home will accommodate 220, you might consider the 8" Grizzly Jointer -- it has a much larger table than the smaller 6" models, and there is a Grizzly store in Bellingham.  

Like Jonathan, I would also recommend the ETS 150/3 over the ETS 125.  You won't be disappointed.

I will look at the 150 vice the 125. The houses that I am looking at moving into only have 120v and I am only going to be there for 5 years and the cost to install 220v is not worth it for me. I am not going to get a jointer. I can joint by hand, skip plane or make a planer sled.
 
Welcome to the FOG James!  The TS55 and a CT is a great way to start.  Add a router and a sander and you can do a lot!  A few odds and ends....
the 6 inch sanders fit nicely in small hands, but the additional area on the sandpaper disc (almost 50 per cent), makes a boring task go lots faster.  I have several Festool sanders, but usually reach for the 150/3.
consider a jig saw so you can do curves
don't rule out the MFT.  read thru the threads on tricking out the mft - that aluminum extrusion makes all kinds of jigs possible.
I think that if you get really serious about furniture making, you will eventually need 220V stationary tools (jointer, planer, bandsaw), but those can wait.  I would not buy basic versions of these tools, but wait until your situation opens up possibilities for the good stuff.  I bought small, underpowered machines and sold them at a loss before long.  Would have been much cheaper to do it right the first time.
try craigslist for tools, not much festool there, but there are lots of folks selling their tools these days at pretty low prices.
 
First off, make sure you allocate some money for accessories and what-not.  They're not cheap, and its amazing how it all adds up.  I'd say set aside $500 in your budget for clamps, paper, blades, bits, etc etc etc.  (hehe once you taste Systainers you want to put everything in them!)

Second, I disagree about the Kapex.  If you do find yourself needing a miter saw, make sure you need a slider.  Not many furniture items require that kind of cross cut capacity, and simpler quality CMS units can be found for less than $200.  If you decide you do need a slider, there are several models which are equally as capable and well made and have decent dust collection.  I use a Bosch 4410, mounted on a Ridgid MSUV (old style, yeah!) and together that cost less than half of a Kapex.  With a 36mm hose and my CT, it is a fairly clean operator.  Sure, it doesn't have rack and pinion bevel setting, nor the cool miter device (I use something else) but it does any/everything I demand of it.

Use that $1100+ towards *several* other tools

Okay, the starting purchases question has a very common answer:  TS55 and a CT.  Bang, you're in the water with both feet, and well equipped for to expand "the system".
A few further suggestions on this:  Upgrade your TS55 purchase to include either a LR32 55" rail, or bump up to the 75" rail size.  You can always get a smaller rail later, but having a longer one is rarely problematic.  You will eventually get more rails... it's a guarantee.  Also, I would strongly examine your expected use, in terms of location.  If you'll always be in your shop, the CT36 is only $50 more than the CT26, and you get a lot more volume in the 36.  Along this line, I would recommend get a 26/36, rather than the 22/33.
And finally, upgrade to the 36mm hose with your CT.   The 36mm hose is eminently more robust and works with almost all the tools.  You can get an adapter for about $50 to go with the certain tools that require the small hose end.  You can use the 36mm to do shop cleanup.  I find the 27mm hose clogs with small/tiny offcuts and even leaves (part of my shop is the garage).

So, there goes roughly $1100.   (You will think this stings, until you fire it up)

You can now cut and clean up.  Next would be shaping and heading for the finish line.
The OF1400 is widely considered the ultimate versatile router.  There ya go.  If you don't already have money invested in 1/2" shank bits, you could consider the OF1010.  But for that $100 discount you are closing off a big marketplace of router bits.  Search around and you will find plenty of lively debate about the two routers.

Sanders:  This is a toughie, as Festool offers so many sanders, and they're all awesome...  And you also need to factor in consummables and having different sizes and grits to buy and store, etc.
Take a hard look at the Rotex models.  You mentioned your hand size may have influence.  A side benefit of the 150mm size is the nice hand sanding blocks you can get, but they should not be a deal breaker if the 125 size is better for you.

If you are not going to be working rough stock (e.g. not much need for the rotary sanding), then consider the ETS and DTS.  You can get them both for less than the price of the Rotex 150.

As you round the turn, there's another $1000 (you'll need to get some sandpaper, probably the router rail guide stop, and some other goodies).

Finally, the Domino.  Hands down, if you plan to make furniture this is a tool you want in your shop.  If you are truly brand new to wood working you might not ever fully appreciate how sweet this thing is, and how much time it saves, and how fantastic and precise the results are.  But, even if you don't know what you're missing (e.g. tedium) you'll appreciate the final results.  Again, factor in some funds for accessories.  Pony up for the Domino assortment set (which includes all cutters) and you're basically set for life.  Or get them one-by-one as you need them.. either way, you might likely end up with them all.   [embarassed]

Bon voyage!  The ride on the slope IS fun!

PS:  San Diego and Washington, huh?  Check out  www.searchtempest.com    A Craigslist search aggregator.  There are Festool bargains to be found.  But carefully weigh any (sometimes minor) savings vs. new, full warranty, and 30 day guarantee.
 
The 36mm hose is eminently more robust and works with almost all the tools.

Mr. Junkie:

I think that, again, you presented a very comprehensive view of the situation - as you did in your reviews...

I would respectfully like to add that using the 36mm hoses for sanding is unwieldy and as such, can lead to less than optimum results.

Kind regards,

Tom
 
When I was a teenager at the end of WWII, the first power tool I bought was a 1/4" B&D electric drill. Next I bought a Skill circular saw. By the mid 1960's I had space for a wood shop, featuring a rebuilt D&W 14" table saw, which produced marvelous glue-ready cuts so long as the blade was sharp. Over the years I moved frequently. One constant was a precision machine job shop I own with 3 partners in a building I own individually.

In January 2006 I took vacation to build several specialty cabinets for my condo. I knew I had no space for a table saw. An old friend of mine, Jessie Barragan, has been a dealer in top-end woodworking equipment in the Los Angeles area for many years. At his new location of Eagle Tools he introduced me to Festools. The first cut I made using a demo TS55 I was sure the cut was glue-ready, better than I ever made with the beloved classic D&W. I understood that Festool is a system, with effective dust extraction and collection the heart of that system.

Right then I bought a TS55 EQ, with a spare fine blade, a CT22, an extra 1400mm rail, a pair each of the short screw and the Quick clamps. To join the 2 rails I bought the accessory kit, which includes 2 connectors. Subsequently I have happily bought a lot of Festools. Much to my delight the results using Festools are so good, and the work is so clean, I found I was making a substantial living site-building.

Festool makes a bunch of sanders. I own most of them, but sanding is so individual you really need to visit a dealer and try them for yourself. Same with the routers. I own all that Festool currently sells in the USA. The OF1400 would be my suggestion as the first after a TS and a sander. I had what I thought was a decent miter saw, which I had bought the week before my first TS55. Once the Kapex was available I bought one and put it to good use. The Domino is a marvelous tool. With some practice it makes work better.

About a year ago I started looking for a building I could purchase and turn into a efficient shop which would make woodworking as less frustrating as possible. Now I have all the usual fixed equipment, including a CNC nested router, beam saw and slider saw. Yet I still find it is faster and as accurate to make plywood parts requiring odd angles using guide rails and a TS55. I have a quality wide belt sander and still do a lot of sanding with my Festools.
 
Tom Bellemare said:
The 36mm hose is eminently more robust and works with almost all the tools.

Mr. Junkie:

I think that, again, you presented a very comprehensive view of the situation - as you did in your reviews...

I would respectfully like to add that using the 36mm hoses for sanding is unwieldy and as such, can lead to less than optimum results.

Kind regards,

Tom

Very good point Tom.  Since I have both sizes now, I forget that the 27mm is the one I always use for sanding. 
 
I have been building bookcases (I have about 18,000 volumes) and have a small house with odd sized spaces.  Given that I don't really have a choice except build.  I started with a Trion I was doing deck repairs and a friend who does restoration for a living let me try his, huge improvement over my old saw.  Then I started on bookcases and got a Domino with a CT mini.  It is a great tool for joinry.  I also have a TS 55 with the guide rails and extensions; great for breaking down sheet goods for shelves etc.  My sander is a DeWalt I got on sale and I will eventually replace that.  My two big improvements were getting a good fence for a crappy router table (Incra 25" range fence) and a small band saw.  So far I haven't hit anything that I can't do; some things are a little clunky though.  I will be getting a Freud FT3000VCE router for a new table, it is designed for table use and doesn't require a lift.  The 2200 would be nice but there are no lifts or plates for it AFAIK right now.  Further, like many, I don't have 220 at 15A available or possible.  I have a trim router and will eventually get a 1400 for work on the guides.  Frankly I have been pleasantly surprised with he performance of the CT mini.  I would like a long table joiner but don't really need one. With the fence that I have the router does the job?a more powerful router will help a lot though.  I mostly work Lyptus, Osage Orange, and Baltic Burch, Lyptus and Appleply.
 
Thank you for all of the great input. The consensus seems to be a TS55 and CT26/36, junkie you brought up a good point about the 36 being only 50 bucks more and might be worth it. The goal is to do it right, I don't want to feel like I compromised or bought less tool than I should have. Thanks again.

James
 
Of the tools I have, I use the Kapex the most, but I wouldn't recommend it as high on your list, only because the price differential is really significant between that...and something that you could get used for $200-350. That would work for a few years.

My suggestion is to really get game changers, like the TS and guide rail system along with a vacuum. I'd be tempted to get a domino next. And then the 1400 router.
 
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