Whetstones

[cfullen]

So.  This weekend, I was making some progress towards organizing my shop.  I was moving my stones. I tripped, and broke both of them!  I was so disappointing with myself.

But I need new stones.  I had an 800 stone and a 4000 stone.  I am considering making the investment in the shapton stones.  Do you guys have any input on these?  I would be buying a 2000/4000/8000 set.  As you know, these are pricey so any insight would be a tremendous asset to me.

thanks

 

[cfullen]

actually, a 1000/5000/8000 kit

 

[Ed Bray]

I have followed the Rob Cosman ideal of sharpening which utilises a 300/1000 Trend diamond plate followed by a 16000 Shapton, works great. The 300 is only used to flatten the 16000 Shapton, the main honing is done on the 1000 Diamond plate before a secondary bevel is created using the Shapton Stone.

 

[cfullen]

Interesting.  that 16000 stone is pretty far above what I was thinking I would max out at.  As I previously stopped at 4k

 

[grbmds]

I'm not an expert but recently took a course on hand planes where Christopher Schwarz was an instructor. He uses 1000/4000/8000 for honing the micro-bevel on all chisels and plane blades. I currently own a 4000/8000 combo Norton Waterstone and I think it works great. I would buy a separate stone for each grit if I had it to do over again, but won't do that until these wear out which will be awhile. The brand of water stones certainly is not something I'm an expert on but the Norton stones are less expensive and seem to work well. They do not need to be kept soaking in water, just wetted with water when using them. They are easy to flatten with a diamond flattening stone and seem easy to maintain. Going beyond 8000 is not necessary based on everything I've read, my limited experience, and information from at least 2 sources who I would consider experts in the area of sharpening.

 

[mouppe]

That's what I use...a 1000/4000/8000 combination, but I would advise you to steer clear of the Norton stones as their quality has dipped in recent years. I still use my old 4000 Norton, but my newer 8000 Norton is not nearly as good as my old one. I recently replaced my 1000 Norton with a 1000 Ohishi from Lie Nielsen- worlds apart and far far better. Now I am looking to sell my 8000 Norton and buy a 10,000 Ohishi.

Also I would advise separate stones rather than the combination stones.

I tried the Shapton stones too but I prefer the traditional type of waterstones.

There is a massive thread on waterstones over on the UK workshop forum. It's well worth joining there for any hand tool-related stuff in particular.

 

[grbmds]

I have heard the the newer Norton waterstones are not good because they have outsourced them to somewhere where quality control is apparently not a high priority. Mine are from about 1 - 2 years ago and apparently were some of the older, higher quality stones. The previous response was a good reminder. I doubt I will need to replace mine for awhile. They work well. I'm sure Lie-Nielsen would not sell stones that have a bad history. In fact, I believe they switched from Norton because they found out what the previous poster verified.

 

[Wuffles]

This will offend someone I expect, and it's not my intention, but...

I watched something recently that suggested diamond stones are only good for TCT or solid carbide and that using them on anything else is counter productive. I can try and find that link but I am genuinely hoping the kind of chaps who are chatting about rubbing metal up to 16000 grit have read that already in "Sharp Metal Monthly".

Ed mentioned diamond stones, it's why I've piped up. And I like Ed, so before anyone wants to knock me about, don't shoot the messenger, not if you lot have sharpened the arrow anyway. I'd prefer to be shot by something that I've sharpened myself using a 40 grit piece of sandpaper I found out the back by the bins, I'll just suffer a mild concussion.

 

[jacko9]

I have the Shapton Glass Stones and some of the Shapton Pro stones.  The 1000, 4000 and 8000 and good stones but if you get a nick on your edges I use either my Shapton Pro 320 or my Shapton Glass 500 grit stones.

Depending on how often you sharpen and how many chisels, plane irons, and kitchen knives (I sharpen all with my stones) you might consider getting the Atoma 140 diamond plate for quick and easy re-flattening your stones.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/diamondplates.html

If you want an excellent stone for flattening the back of your irons and all around sharpening the Nubatama stone is my favorite.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/nu1kspexexha.html

Jack

 

[cfullen]

I got a combo diamond plate and a 8000 professional shapton stone. 

Thank you for all the comments.

I will be adding another shapton when the wallet loosens up a little.

 

[grbmds]

I have used diamond stones at the lower grits, then finish with 4000 and 8000 water stones. I don't necessarily believe starting with a diamond stone is a problem. However, I was told recently the results from water stones over diamond is better. If you have a certain set of stones to begin, I would use them for awhile. If you aren't satisfied with the results, replace one of the stones at the higher grits with something else. It's difficult to tell if the results are satisfactory to you unless you stick with a particular method and stones until you get the technique and results consistent. I believe going above 8000 or 10000 is unnecessary with not very much to be gained, if anything above 10000. The edge with 8000 on a water stone is polished and sharp. It's the actual technique, whether edge is square to the blade itself, and whether the scratches from the previous level are gone when you are done.

 

[FOGNewbie]

Just got 3 Shapton whetstones, and a DMT Dia Flat lapping plate. The stones were 1000, 8000, and 15000. I haven't had too much time to use the stones, but so far so good. Really the 1000, and 8000 combo is great. Obviously you get a better polish and and can go a little longer before a touch-up honing when you add the 15000, but I can't say there was a huge difference between that and 8000 plus strop with honing compound.

I was able to get forearm hairs to "explode" off of the forearm when stropping after the 15000 stone. Visually equal polish after stroping  at both grits to the naked eye, but it seemed to be a hair sharper after the 15000 plus strop. Sharpened a spokeshave blade freehand and was able to create end grain shavings that curled nicely.

The question is where is the cut-off/ balance between getting sharp enough, and leaving enough time to plane, chisel, etc. Not sure I have that answer.

Going in another direction, one can get  a chisel/ plane sharp enough to shave with. using sandpaper and strop only. Going from 220 to 2000/ 2500(wet dry auto sandpaper).

The reason I started at 220 grit the time I tried this was a significant nick in the blade. There was some pitting as well. ou can get to the level shaving with just sandpaper.

I've come to like waterstones better overall, but you can get to a nice polish with sandpaper as well.

 

[jacko9]

Just got 3 Shapton whetstones, and a DMT Dia Flat lapping plate. The stones were 1000, 8000, and 15000. I haven't had too much time to use the stones, but so far so good. Really the 1000, and 8000 combo is great. Obviously you get a better polish and and can go a little longer before a touch-up honing when you add the 15000, but I can't say there was a huge difference between that and 8000 plus strop with honing compound.

I was able to get forearm hairs to "explode" off of the forearm when stropping after the 15000 stone. Visually equal polish after stroping  at both grits to the naked eye, but it seemed to be a hair sharper after the 15000 plus strop. Sharpened a spokeshave blade freehand and was able to create end grain shavings that curled nicely.

The question is where is the cut-off/ balance between getting sharp enough, and leaving enough time to plane, chisel, etc. Not sure I have that answer.

Going in another direction, one can get  a chisel/ plane sharp enough to shave with. using sandpaper and strop only. Going from 220 to 2000/ 2500(wet dry auto sandpaper).

The reason I started at 220 grit the time I tried this was a significant nick in the blade. There was some pitting as well. ou can get to the level shaving with just sandpaper.

I've come to like waterstones better overall, but you can get to a nice polish with sandpaper as well.

For me going from 1000 to 8000 grit is too large a jump and I spend too much time trying to get the 1000 grit scratches out.  I always stop at 8000 and only strop after use to restore the 8000 grit edge.

A good 3000 grit stone might be a good addition to your set. 

Jack

 

[FOGNewbie]

You read my mind. I am considering that, but I have been getting good results so far with the 1000/ 8000 set-up. At the time I had to chose between an intermediate stone and a laping plate due to budget. Right now I am happy I chose the lapping plate. It made flattening the stones easy. 
Now that I have those two, I may go back and get either a 3000, or 5000 grit stone.