Which Sortainers to buy?

pingvinlakrits said:
I put oak rails on the larger systainer so I can slide one of those collapsible carts under and just take off. Those two stacked together with a Sortainer with inserts see me through most of my jobs while keeping the volume down to a minimum.

The photos are not attached! :D
 
Dave Ronyak said:
Henrik,

Photos (and dimensions/materials) would be great.  You ideas sound like great solutions to me.

Dan et al.,

Does anyone know what the load rating is for the Systainer Cart (flat top dolly)?  I was thinking of making some dollies to use in my shop to facilitate moving a cabinet or piece of furniture that is in progress, so I can move it to a side location when it is time to bring the car back in, or to roll it outside for spray finishing.  I could easily make a couple of dollies with scrap wood and purchased casters, but a pair or more Festool units could have multiple uses.

Dave R.

I think I read 110 lbs.  You can get piano dollies at Harbor Freight rated for 750 lbs for $20, if you need greater capacity.  BTW, I just ordered my first Festool caster base.
 
thanks,  I have of the ones with the little yellow and blue boxes also,  this systainer has a black insert it looks like, and that is the one I was wondering if anybody had.
 
I don't have the Sys-1 with insert, but I've got a number of Minis with similar inserts.

There's always the problem of whether the inserts will work for your particular need.  "Your Mileage May Vary" is never more true than with these inserts.

With the fixed inserts, I always fall into this prolonged negotiation between what I'd like to fit in, and what the inserts will allow.

The foam inserts of the Vari give the least trouble about arranging things the way you want.

I like the flexibility of the Box (with the little colored boxes).  You can get extras of each size of colored box, and create your own layout.  You could even cement them in place if you wanted to.

Ned
 
Julian Tracy said:
For anyone in the Detroit area, there's someone selling these gray tool carts on CL for $75 each.  That's an amazing deal as they are most likely hospital grade carts that retail for close to $450 each.  They are roller bearing drawers - he had 5-7 to sell just recently, search for tool carts.

Regards,

Julian[attachimg=#]

Well, I'm not in complete disagreement with you as I'm a finish carpenter and I would love to pick up gray tool cart but getting them across the border might not work. And to point out Systainers are like Narcotics, they don't have to make sence to want to buy them. Ya just have to have another one.
 
honeydokreg said:
does anybody have (obviously somebody does) the systainer 487194.  the pic online does not show it well but looks good for small parts etc.

thanks for your answers

I have one.  I use it to keep various screws in most of the smaller pockets, and the Screw knobs which fit Festool's Clamping Elements Item # 488030 and MFS Mitre Fence in the larger full front-to-rear pocket on the right.  There is a flip up lid of black plastic which is forced into contact with the black plastic multi-pocketed insert when the lid of the Systainer is closed.  This is supposed to keep small parts from becoming scrambled.  I cannot say how well that function works because I only work in my shop and don't transport my Systainers.  There is also enough space between that black plastic cover and the outer lid of the Systainer to enable storage of several of Festool F-style clamps FSZ 120 mm Item # 489570 and FSZ 300 mm Item # 489571.  At least 4 of the 300 mm clamps will fit.  The 300 mm clamps don't easily fit into the drawers in the Sortainers, unless you get the 4 drawer unit and leave the bottom drawer without dividers.

Dave R.
 
Julian Tracy said:
I mean, I'm loving Festool as much as the other guy, but $100 + for a storage bin with drawers?  $400-600 later to get a stack of them that rolls around? 

I'm a contractor, so portability is key to my work, but I'm thinking most of you here are working in your garages and shops. Julian

I have to agree here, I feel like the systainers are outrageously priced, :o especially when, IMHO, I feel like they are pretty lightly built and might not take to being banged around.  ( I might be wrong, but I'm reeeeel careful with mine.)  Ive seen FOG members pics of them used on-the-go and they seem to utilize space very well, especially in a truck bed, but I don't feel the price and quality go hand in hand.  The systainers feel flimsy to me.

In my shop at home I made a 4 wheel cart that I made with two wide shelves and 10 narrow drawers to store things.  The drawers pull out like storage bins (they are 24" deep) and are as portable as I need them to be.  The cart stores under my high workbench.

I'd never want to drag it around on a worksite, but if I have everything in 10 systainers, I'd be trotting back and forth from job to truck to retrieve the things I need.

Yet having said that, systainers sell at or above retail on Ebay.  Go figure.
 
i do not agree that they are outrageously priced.  Yes they are expensive, but I feel they can withstand abuse, and have seen them withstand abuse.  they stack together nicely and lock together.  they protect our investment  in our tools. so what price can you put on that.!  yes their are others way to store stuff. but I like the festool, fortunately I charge on the higher end of the scale for what I do, one reason is the investment  in the tools I use are highend. but they do what they are designed for.

my only pain in the rear is the systainer that I usually need is on the bottom of the stack most of the time.  pull out drawers are the best way, but I carry mine to different jobsites some of the time.  so I have never found anysystem perfect, but festool to me is top of the line. 
 
Steveo48 said:
Julian Tracy said:
I mean, I'm loving Festool as much as the other guy, but $100 + for a storage bin with drawers?  $400-600 later to get a stack of them that rolls around? 

I have to agree here, I feel like the systainers are outrageously priced, :o

Julian was talking about Sortainers (the units with drawers), which cost about $110 each, rather than the cheaper Systainers which are about half that price - which ones are you talking about?

Steveo48 said:
...I have everything in 10 systainers, I'd be trotting back and forth from job to truck to retrieve the things I need.

Surely that's one of the beauties of Systainers and Sortainers - you can clip several of them together and then carry that combined stack from the truck to the site. So although you might have 10 Systainers, you might only need two trips!

Forrest

 
[quote Julian was talking about Sortainers (the units with drawers), which cost about $110 each, rather than the cheaper Systainers which are about half that price - which ones are you talking about?quote]

They're both expensive.  A 9 drawer sortainer is over $100.00.  As Julian suggested, look at the kind of storage you could get for that money.  Really GOOD storage that a 5 YO with a T ball bat or a fall down an unfinished stairway won't destroy.

I agree the locking box thing is pretty cool.  Having everything look uniform is very professional.  They all utilize space very well but I would never call them a great value, there are more cost effective ways to get it done.  These things don't do the work, they just organize stuff.

I believe the price of Festools in general scares away a lot of potential users, the price of sortainers and systainers is an easy example.  It is, after all, just a plastic box to hold stuff.  It didn't take a degreed engineer to come up with the design, nore require that it be built in Europe under stern German supervision.  The same box of the same quality could be pumped out of Asia for a small fraction of what they are asking for them.

Again I'm not saying they are bad, I just don't see them as a good value for the money.

Steve

 
From a few of the posts in this thread, it appears that many Festool users would like the option of buying their power Festools without an accompanying Systainer, particularly those who work at a fixed location. 

I personally like the Systainers, and frequently use them as stepping stools (much faster and easier to move about than a small ladder), supports for long work pieces or assembly or applying a finish (a couple of Sys 3s topped with a piece of plywood and a sheet of plastic works great as a portable, temporary low table).

Because I work mainly in my shop and around my home, I commonly leave my Festools out of their Systainers, which makes them more quickly accessible.  But I keep accessories for my 1400 router in its Systainer, for my TS 55 saw in its Systainer, my extra dust collection fittings in the cleaning kit Systainer, etc.  This makes it very easy to locate accessories when needed.

I disagree with those who think there is not much engineering in them; there is both engineering of the design and of the materials.  In Germany, they are sent through the postal system without any exterior packaging.  That cannot be done with most products.  But I do wish they were lower in price, especially the drawered units.

Dave R.
 
i agree too, that the drawer units would be nice if price was lower, but they do take a beating and keep going.  yes I would also like the option of ordering the tool without the case.

but hey they work and work good.  and have as you mentioned several other uses.
 
I love my Sortainers. They are pricey but so is a big red tool cabinet. The big red tool cabinet is heavy and hard to carry to a jobsite. The Sortainers I can stack on the CT-22 and wheel into a condo.

Last night was Festool Friday at my "real" work. I started the build ona LCD monitor lift for a console and also a storage box for the Board room table (which I also built). Being abloe to grab 8 Systainers and the CT-22 made packing up easy. The protability of the Systainers is crucial in keeping everything organized

I'd like to see Festool come up with inserts for the 4 drawer Sortainer so you could store the C12 drill and accessories in the large drawer and then screws, spade bits in the drawers up top.

In the perfect wolrd I'd like to see Festool come up with Sortainers for all tools which fit into a  Sys 3 or smaller along with an insert for that smaller space. That would give me the ability to buy the dolly wheels or use the CT-22 on a jobsite and not unstack the Systainers.

Think I am gonna put in a request!

If you want to sell off some of you extra Systainers ping me offline
 
Steveo48 said:
They're both expensive.  A 9 drawer sortainer is over $100.00.  As Julian suggested, look at the kind of storage you could get for that money.  Really GOOD storage that a 5 YO with a T ball bat or a fall down an unfinished stairway won't destroy.

I agree the locking box thing is pretty cool.  Having everything look uniform is very professional.  They all utilize space very well but I would never call them a great value, there are more cost effective ways to get it done.  These things don't do the work, they just organize stuff.

I believe the price of Festools in general scares away a lot of potential users, the price of sortainers and systainers is an easy example.  It is, after all, just a plastic box to hold stuff.  It didn't take a degreed engineer to come up with the design, nore require that it be built in Europe under stern German supervision.  The same box of the same quality could be pumped out of Asia for a small fraction of what they are asking for them.

Again I'm not saying they are bad, I just don't see them as a good value for the money.

I think the vast majority of people would agree with you that they are expensive - including me. The same applies to most items marketed by Festool, from router bits to saws, and dust bags to drills.

Whether they are "good value for money" is a different kettle of fish, as it depends on several factors and the perspective of the user. There are many who would argue that buying cheaply-made items is a false economy, as they often don't last as long as more expensive items. To keep the price down, inferior materials are used, less thought and testing is put into their design, and quality control is skimped.

If we take a sander as an example, then for someone who only needs it for light tasks around the house might well be happy with a cheap sander. It does the job, it doesn't cost much, and he considers it good value for the money. The fact that it vibrates a bit and produces quite a lot of dust doesn't concern him too much, because he doesn't use it for long periods.

However, if the same sander was used day-in day-out by a tradesman, it might only last a few months before it wore out. If the cheap sander has to be replaced after a few months hard use, then the cost of buying replacements mounts up over time. There is also the inconvenience when it breaks down whilst trying to meet a deadline, and the downtime and travel/shipping costs involved when getting a replacement. The vibration and dust, which didn't bother the occasional user, would also be damaging to the tradesman's health.

Many tradesmen would rather purchase more expensive tools which were designed to last much longer, and have better ergonomics. And when they did break down, they could be repaired rather than replaced. To some users, it is therefore the more expensive sander that would be better value for money, and the cheap sander would be considered a waste of money.

The same can also apply to tool boxes. A cheap toolbox, made out of thin plastic, with plastic bendy hinges and thin steel catches might be considered by the occasional user as being good value for money.  He just wants an inexpensive place to store his tools, and it might last for a few years if opened a few times every weekend.

In the hands of a tradesman, the toolbox is quite liable to fall apart after a few weeks of normal use carrying tools - the handle might break, the catches might slip, or the hinge might crack. If that happens when the box is being carried across a concrete floor, a muddy worksite, or a newly-installed wood floor in a customer's home, then the result could be very expensive. The tradesman is very unlikely to give the thumbs-up and consider it good value for money!

Instead, he'd probably prefer something that is well-designed, made of sturdy materials, and can be used for other things too. Festool's Systainer and Sortainer range are designed with heavy use in mind. For example, the handles are rated to 440 lbs, and the lids have been designed so that you can stand on them. In the words of the manufacturer:

------------
Systainers are made of ABS plastic. The advantage of ABS is that it combines the strength and rigidity of the acrylics with the toughness of rubber. The most amazing mechanical properties of ABS are resistance and toughness. Impact resistance does not fall off rapidly at lower temperatures.

The handle is rated at 200 kg, or 440 lbs. Due to the latches, your actual capacity will be significantly less, but don?t be afraid to pack them and stack them. These rugged cases are designed for demanding tasks.
------------

Given the number of tasks that they can be used for, their durability, their space efficiency, and their stackability, I suggest that many tradesmen might indeed regard the Systainer as being good value for money!

As regards just being made of plastic, the Sortainer actually contains quite a bit of metal, as the "shelves" have aluminium strengthening. I can take a photo if you'd like to see how it's constructed.

In summary, there's little dispute that Festool kit is expensive. Whether the kit is "good value for money" very much depends on the user's perspective. If you don't see them as being good value for money, that's fine by me, but quite a few will hold the opposite opinion!

Forrest

 
honeydokreg said:
does anybody have (obviously somebody does) the systainer 487194.  the pic online does not show it well but looks good for small parts etc.

As you say, the standard photo isn't very clear at all...

23.487.194.jpg


However I tripped over the following photo on page 148 of the Festool USA catalog tonight, and although it's not got a caption, it looks as though it's the same item...

Forrest
 
Some nice words Forrest.  And that bottom photo is a great find -- it certainly shows the insert in a better light.  Great posts.
 
I have really struggled with the Festool storage boxes. The Systainers drive me crazy as they have to be top opened so I always have to move others to get the needed one open - yea, I need a Sysport type system!! The Sortainers are VERY space inefficient - especially the ones with all the little drawers. On those with the small drawers, you get at the most 50% usable space as so much is lost in the top, bottom, and the drawer separators. The 4 drawer unit is the most space efficient and if I buy more will be the one I get. I also have problems with the drawers jamming if the stuff I put in can shift and get above the top of the drawer. Had a tape measure yesterday get jammed in a small drawer and it took me a long time to get it out. I don't need them to be super strong or portable for my usage but many of you do.
So, my thoughts are in my ultra confined shop, there are no great answers. In a perfect world, the tools would come in a 1 drawer Sortainer - that way you could stack them and pull out the tool drawer. That would be a perfect option during purchasing to get the drawer type or top open type container.
Pete
 
PeterK said:
.....So, my thoughts are in my ultra confined shop, there are no great answers. In a perfect world, the tools would come in a 1 drawer Sortainer - that way you could stack them and pull out the tool drawer. That would be a perfect option during purchasing to get the drawer type or top open type container.
Pete

Pete, I never thought of that, great idea! How about starting a new thread in the wish list section.
 
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