Why Festool failed at Rockler

[HowardH]

I normally shop at Woodcraft but only Rockler had the 7" throat Bessey F clamps so I stopped by to pick some up this week.  While checking out I asked this one employee who has been there several years if they missed selling Festool.  He said no and he never understood why anyone would buy it.  He said it was too expensive and there were other alternatives that were well below Festool's price points.  That kind of attitude would kill any brand.  He mentioned that has been some talk about Festool coming back to Rockler but if this guy is representative of the general attitude of the company about Festool, then why bother.  On the other hand, my local Woodcraft guys are big promoters of the brand and they sell a lot of it.  They "get it".  If there is a shred of truth of what that guy said about Festool returning to Rockler, I hope Festool is asking a lot of hard questions about Rockler's commitment before they commit resources to a potential return to this market. 

 

[Mort]

I hope they do, there's a Rockler 10 minutes from my moms house. Woodcraft is on the other side of Seattle. They are quite helpful at the Woodcraft though.

 

[Cheese]

Probably should rename this thread to "Why Rockler failed Festool". [eek]

Several months ago I asked the Rockler salesman why they weren't selling Festool anymore and he said he had no idea. He said several of the other employees had also asked the same of management but there was no response. I then asked if Festool sold well and he said they sold a ton of the stuff. I asked if he was surprised and he said he was stunned. He said he was at the store when Festool entered, went over to the display area and removed every tool and accessory and then any sign or material that had the Festool name or logo printed on it.  [jawdrop] Whoops...

 

[AlexThePalex]

I can see perfectly why Festool and chain stores don't fit eachothers' business philosophy.

From my interactions with dealers (both satisfied dealers and disgruntled (ex)dealers), I have learned that Festool is VERY demanding. They try to exert a lot more influence over the entire sales process than many stores find acceptable.

And chain stores do the same thing, they use their sales volume to get their suppliers to meet their demands, like for instance lower prices and special offers.

In this type of relationships, always one has to budge.

Festool don't budge.

Second, chain stores think in terms of "profit per shelf-space". With a high cost item like Festool, I doubt the average chain store visitor spends as much on it as they would with cheaper items.
 

 

[otis04]

I spoke to a manager a Rockler (still here say, really) and he said Festool pulled the line due to disagreements on the Festool pricing policy.  Specifically, when Festool would have a sale, like 10% off Domino, Rockler would insert the discount in their flyers earlier than the announced date and honor the pricing before it was authorized by Festool.  He also said Rockler got a warning and second chance, but failed to comply.
He did say Rockler was trying to get Festool back in their stores.
As to any chain promoting Festool, I would say it depends on the store and which employees are on duty.  When I first started buying Festool, there was only one guy I would speak with at my local Woodcraft, most of the other employees either didn't know or didn't care.

 

[sancho57]

Once, I went to a Rockler, to buy a Kapex, Kapex MFT, Crown stops and extension wings. I stood by the festool section, no one even bothered  to ask if I needed help.

Only thing the manager did was grip b/c my dog was in the store as he walked by.

So needless to say I didn't buy anything from them that day and I left.

Now I look at it and they lost close to 10K or more in festool sales from me. Plus other things hinges, slides various things..

I will drive past them and go to another store before I give them my business.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Once, I went to a Rockler, to buy a Kapex, Kapex MFT, Crown stops and extension wings. I stood by the festool section, no one even bothered  to ask if I needed help.

Only thing the manager did was grip b/c my dog was in the store as he walked by.

So needless to say I didn't buy anything from them that day and I left.

Now I look at it and they lost close to 10K or more in festool sales from me. Plus other things hinges, slides various things..

I will drive past them and go to another store before I give them my business.

I don't see your perceived bad service as an issue specific to Rockler.  You could get the same from any number of retail stores.  Personally, I prefer to ask for help when I want it from the staff.  I only consider it bad service if no one is made available or are unwilling to help.  Second, I think is very rude to bring a dog into a place of business.       

 

[deepcreek]

I spoke to a manager a Rockler (still here say, really) and he said Festool pulled the line due to disagreements on the Festool pricing policy.  Specifically, when Festool would have a sale, like 10% off Domino, Rockler would insert the discount in their flyers earlier than the announced date and honor the pricing before it was authorized by Festool.  He also said Rockler got a warning and second chance, but failed to comply.

That's exactly what my source at Rockler told me.  Festool is very protective of their fixed pricing strategy and dealer network.  Rockler violated their sales policy once too often.

He did say Rockler was trying to get Festool back in their stores.

It's not going to happen any time soon.  My source said Festool had new requirements that Rockler would not agree to meet.

 

[sancho57]

Brice,

Yes and no or rather it depends. Most of the places like Rockler when they see someone lurking around a area they will at least ask if they can help you (me). They didn't.

Now other places I go to that are more for contractors I walk in look around and usually know what I want and if I need help Ill find someone. But that place is more like a warehouse with ply, timber hardware tools etc not a retail store.

But in the scenario I was describing its different then say the Woodcraft I go to. If they see me lurking around say the festool area, one will wander over and ask if I have any questions or if they can help. They know me by name.

I look at it as they want to make a sale.

 

[greg mann]

Once, I went to a Rockler, to buy a Kapex, Kapex MFT, Crown stops and extension wings. I stood by the festool section, no one even bothered  to ask if I needed help.

Only thing the manager did was grip b/c my dog was in the store as he walked by.

So needless to say I didn't buy anything from them that day and I left.

Now I look at it and they lost close to 10K or more in festool sales from me. Plus other things hinges, slides various things..

I will drive past them and go to another store before I give them my business.

I don't see your perceived bad service as an issue specific to Rockler.  You could get the same from any number of retail stores.  Personally, I prefer to ask for help when I want it from the staff.  I only consider it bad service if no one is made available or are unwilling to help.  Second, I think is very rude to bring a dog into a place of business.     

Depends on the management attitude towards dogs, Brice. My Festool dealer is put out if i don't bring my dog. Has even offered to take him if I go out of town. The Home Depots near me always have dog treats and the best neighborhood hardware has signs in their parking lot advising customers to not leave their dog in a hot car or they will be obliged to take action.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Depends on the management attitude towards dogs, Brice. My Festool dealer is put out if i don't bring my dog. Has even offered to take him if I go out of town. The Home Depots near me always have dog treats and the best neighborhood hardware has signs in their parking lot advising customers to not leave their dog in a hot car or they will be obliged to take action.

Gregg, you are certainly aware that not all people are dog people.  Regardless of the management's attitude you'll bother a certain percentage of patrons bringing your dog to a place of business.  When you decide to bring your dog into a store you are being inconsiderate to those that aren't in love with your dog.  Again, you know this too.  Here's another thing you know, purposefully being inconsiderate is very rude.  Just because your beloved dog is involved doesn't change this.       

 

[greg mann]

Depends on the management attitude towards dogs, Brice. My Festool dealer is put out if i don't bring my dog. Has even offered to take him if I go out of town. The Home Depots near me always have dog treats and the best neighborhood hardware has signs in their parking lot advising customers to not leave their dog in a hot car or they will be obliged to take action.

Gregg, you are certainly aware that not all people are dog people.  Regardless of the management's attitude you'll bother a certain percentage of patrons bringing your dog to a place of business.  When you decide to bring your dog into a store you are being inconsiderate to those that aren't in love with your dog.  Again, you know this too.  Here's another thing you know, purposefully being inconsiderate is very rude.  Just because your beloved dog is involved doesn't change this.     

Everything you say is true, Brice, but I have found attitudes changing quite dramatically regarding dogs in the past few years. When I was getting my haircut a few months ago I commented about the dog pictures the lady barber had on her mirror and told her about how my German Shepard went most everywhere with me but I had left him home because I needed my haircut and it was too hot to leave him in my truck. She said bring him in the next time, which I did, and customers and hairdresser alike fawned over him. People constantly want to interact with him everywhere I go. Frankly I am flabbergasted by it all, especially women. They are far less likely to be intimidated by his presence than men. Go figure. Thirty years ago I had an Irish Setter and folks were not nearly as interactive with her as they are my GS, and she was absolutely gorgeous and well behaved to boot.

It does help that Rommel is extremely well behaved, will sit or lie down on command, and loves everyone. He could pretty much sail through any therapy dog test and if I was wearing sunglasses folks would probably think he was my leader dog.

I am fully aware some folks are put off by dogs in places they have not traditionally been welcome to them and there are certainly places I will not take him. But honestly, I have to say the folks who at first glance I would think most likely to be put off by his presence seem to be the very ones who react most positively. Over the past three or four years I cannot recall a single negative reaction to his presence.

 

[nickao]

Rockler losing Festool isn't an issue for their bottom line I assure you. I was told they didn't sell much Festool and when they did sell them those particular customers were a pain to deal with. Maybe we Festool people are a pain to deal with, I am sure I am. I mean when we know more than the salesman it's always an issue. And I always knew more than the Rockler salesmen, especially about the Festools. And it was really aggravating when I knew more about their own Rockeler tools!

[attachimg=1]

 

[peter halle]

This topic has gone way off topic.  Rockler's Festool relationship didn't end due to dogs being allowed or not in their stores or if they could shop online.

If you want to talk about dogs in public or in stores please start another thread.

Peter

 

[nickao]

Ill delete my doggie rant - deleted

 

[Scott B.]

So dogs are welcome on the FOG but not in this thread?  [blink]

[big grin]

 

[CrazyLarry]

It does help that Rommel is extremely well behaved, will sit or lie down on command, and loves everyone. He could pretty much sail through any therapy dog test and if I was wearing sunglasses folks would probably think he was my leader dog.

I can't stop laughing..., have this mental picture of Rommel and his mate Guderian the Dobermann you can fill in the rest.

getting back on topic: good name for a Festool dog!

 

[Cheese]

Ill delete my doggie rant - deleted

That's too bad...this anti pooch thing is strictly an American anomoly. Travel in Europe and they embrace the mutts at work, play and at dinner. America is getting better in their acceptance of the 4 legged crtitters on a daily basis. I take our 2 dogs to Home Depot, Menards, North Face, Room & Board, Pottery Barn, Kitchen Window, Schulers Shoes, need I go on? They're not treated as yesterday's left over bad news by these retailers, but rather as a way the retailer can interact and socialize with the owners and the dogs, to produce a rather symbiotic relationship beneficial for both parties. What's wrong with that?

 

[greg mann]

Okay, back on topic. IMO, Rockler was a poor choice for Festool, at least on a chain-wide basis. The Rockler store in my area is pretty lame, and only two miles from a store that already had Festool before the move to Rockler. At the time I felt it was a bad move based on the proximity and the anemic atmosphere at the Rockler store. Time has proven me correct, at least in this particular case.

There are a limited number of retail stores that are an ideal fit for Festool and they should appreciate and protect the good ones they find.

 

[Stephen B]

Okay, back on topic. IMO, Rockler was a poor choice for Festool, at least on a chain-wide basis. The Rockler store in my area is pretty lame, and only two miles from a store that already had Festool before the move to Rockler. At the time I felt it was a bad move based on the proximity and the anemic atmosphere at the Rockler store. Time has proven me correct, at least in this particular case.

There are a limited number of retail stores that are an ideal fit for Festool and they should appreciate and protect the good ones they find.

[size=13pt]
Well as some here know, I work in a Hardware/Timber Yard.

I have two comments re this thread -
1) In the tool department recently a customer said to me - "you must find it hard to work here with all these great tools around". In my mind I am saying, "well actually, no", but to him, " well yes but one carn't spend all ones wages on tools."

And we were surrounded by some great tools, some in quality, some in value for money; but they were not Festool, and I doubt they ever will be because there is little to match in each companies general marketing values.

As others have said, this must be true for Festool and Rockler. After reading this and other threads on this matter, it is apparent that the marketing values do not match. Rockler and Festool should just move on.

2) Dogs - Try telling tradies and farmers to remove their dogs from the back of the Ute/Truck at the entrance before driving in to the timber yard. And most dogs love a pat and scratch as we load the timber. The only breed, I no longer pat; Labradors!