Will my ES 125 Sander do the Job?

[1chipster]

I have 2-  2"x6" pieces of lumber, 6 feet long each that are used on my front porch.  The paint has partially peeled/worn off secondary to weather/sun exposure. The wood is checked but still has a long life to it if I can seal it up, especially before winter sets in.  I have an ES 125 and was wondering if it is strong enough to sand off the old paint, sand down the wood  a little bit so I could apply a good wood filler to these areas?  I have thought about the Rotex 125 but don't know if it is really necessary.  Would appreciate your comments and also what would be the best sanding discs to use for this type of job? 

 

[Ken Nagrod]

The Rotex is the better choice.  A fine finishing sander will take forever on checking wood and peeling paint.  The material making up your porch floor is probably not in need of a "furniture finish", just a rough sanding to clean it all up and a quick final sanding with 120 grit paper, then porch/floor paint.  Get too fine with the sanding and the wood won't have a tooth for the paint to stick well.  I'd go with 60 grit, then 80 on the Rotex.  Finish up with 120 on your ES.  Although the RAS is the quickest, the Rotex is more versatile with its dual modes.

 

[Neill]

For paint removal, especially if you have more to do in the future, I would go with the RAS115.  It was made for paint removal and can be used for other things such as coping cove molding, etc.

In addition, the RAS is about $135 (plus tax if applicable) less expensive than the Rotex 125.

Neill

 

[greg mann]

For the amount of surface you are talking about I would try your existing sander with a coarse grit Cristal and see how it goes. So what if it takes twice as long as a Rotex or an RAS, I don't think what you need to do warrants either one. Unless, of course, you want to invest in another sander and can anticipate more work to be done. What has been said already about the Rotex and the RAS is right on the money. The RAS is the fastest for your specific job, the Rotex would be far more versatile overall while being slower for this job (but not unnacceptably slower). My guess is that you could do the job adequately with the ETS and coarse paper if you want to save the money. Worst case? It doesn't work and you are out the cost of the abrasive, and even that wouldn't be the case if you bought a Rotex 125.

 

[1chipster]

Why do I need to finish up with 120 grit on the ES; why can't I just use the Rotex with a 120 grit on it? Also,
would you feel that the Brilliant2 would be a better choice then say the rubin or cristal?

 

[greg mann]

You certainly could use the Rotex with 120. I think cristal is a better choice for quick removal of paint. I am not sure how coarse Brilliant gets.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Use the Rotex with the 120 then.  At that grit and for that application, it doesn't really matter.  It just seemed like you were itchin to use the ES.  Hope you've got a vac or at least a quality respirator.  Betcha there's lead in that paint.

 

[AlexThePalex]

The ES125 will do just fine for this job. Don't underestimate how aggressive these little sanders can become if you use a low grit like 40, 60 or 80. You are not talking about a big job here so even with the smaller ES125 it won't take too much time.

Cristal is a good type of sandpaper to do the coarse work with but Brilliant is very good too. Cristal will remove paint a bit quicker than Brilliant but it will leave more scratches which you'll have to remove again with a finer grit Brilliant. It's best always to use Brilliant 100 or 120 with the last sanding before painting.    

 

[Ken Nagrod]

What?  The aggressiveness of the sander has nothing to do with the grit of paper you put on it.  Think about putting 40 grit on a sanding block compared to putting it on an electric sander.  It's the machine's drive action that determines how aggressive it is.  The ES125 has a very small orbit compared to the Rotex units, so it takes longer for it to sand or remove material accordingly.  That's why Festool offers the ETS150 in two different strokes.

 

[1chipster]

[smile]Hi Ken,
Betcha there isn't any lead paint.  The area has been painted many times. The last time it was painted (by a painter), the area was sanded so I know the only paint left on it is lead free.  BTW, I have a festool midi ready to go to take care of the dust. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Neill]

As far as the Brilliant paper, I agree with Alex.  Yes it will remove more on a Rotex than with one of the sanders, but I believe because of the finer grit that it will clog more frequently resulting in less material removal and frequent pad replacement, which equals more time and more cost.

I would suggest that you check the pamphlet that came with your sander, or one of the other online resources, and you will find that Brilliant is just not the abrasive you want for the task of paint removal.  Depending on the grit, it is primarily intended for scuff sanding between coats and, as Alex said, to prep for painting.

But, when all is said and done, do as you like.

Neill

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Ok, you win the bet, but why if it was sanded to the substrate, are you having problems with the finish in what seems a short time?

I looked in the Festool sandpaper booklet and they seem to favor Cristal for the fast removal of the old stuff.  Then finish up with either Rubin (if you're down to the bare wood), Brilliant2 or Titan2.  If you're still unsure, maybe you could purchase the small packs of the different types mentioned or the large variety package in the systainer if it's still offered.

Let us know what works for you!

 

[AlexThePalex]

What?  The aggressiveness of the sander has nothing to do with the grit of paper you put on it. 

That's a strange comment Ken, maybe you should try putting two discs of different grits on a sander and then see how fast you remove material with either one of them. Since you like betting, I bet you'll get a clean, paint free board a lot faster using 60 grit than 320.

 

[AlexThePalex]

and you will find that Brilliant is just not the abrasive you want for the task of paint removal.  

Again, it all depends on the grit you use. Brilliant is also available in grits 40 and 60 and those grits are only meant to remove paint fast and get to bare wood. I find them quite effectively. Cristal works a bit faster indeed, when it comes to paint removal, and the discs will last longer, but it will leave more scratch marks than Brilliant, which you'll have to remove again, and you'll also have to add that to your time spend on the job and add the cost of the extra discs needed to clean up.

Anyway, if we're talking about fast removal of paint, nothing beats Saphir paper. It is also available in 125 mm discs. If I need to sand painted wood down to bare wood, I always start out with 50 grit Saphir and then clean up with 60 or 80 grit Brilliant.

If I only have to remove the bad spots where the paint has flaked and leave the rest intact, then I use 60 grit Brilliant for the rough work and finish it with 180 grit Brilliant to make it all look seamless.

The second method is by far my favourite method. It is not necessary to sand the complete surface down to bare wood to make it look neat again. Just the bad spots.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

That's a strange comment Ken, maybe you should try putting two discs of different grits on a sander and then see how fast you remove material with either one of them. Since you like betting, I bet you'll get a clean, paint free board a lot faster using 60 grit than 320.

Comparing "apples to apples" would be, for example putting 60 grit on a Rotex and the same 60 grit on an ES or ETS, then sanding equal areas.  That's the true test for things like aggressiveness, quality and speed.

 

[AlexThePalex]

That's a strange comment Ken, maybe you should try putting two discs of different grits on a sander and then see how fast you remove material with either one of them. Since you like betting, I bet you'll get a clean, paint free board a lot faster using 60 grit than 320.

Comparing "apples to apples" would be, for example putting 60 grit on a Rotex and the same 60 grit on an ES or ETS, then sanding equal areas.  That's the true test for things like aggressiveness, quality and speed.

Ken, from our previous discussion about air sanders I noticed you like to single out one part of the total system needed for a job and then treat the properties of that one item as the determining factor for the entire system. Fine. That is not how I do it.

Maybe I'm seeing this wrong, but for me a sander's aggressiveness is determined but it's ability to remove stock. Without sandpaper, a sander is removing nothing but the hook and loop pens of it's own pad while the wood is laughing it's behind off. Sandpaper is an integral part of the functionality of a sander. And therefore the effect of sandpaper needs to be weighed into the equation.

You say that we need to compare apples to apples and use the same grit on different machines before we can compare them. But why stop there? How about we go totally crazy and slap 50 grit Saphir on the ES125 and 320 grit Brilliant on the Rotex 150? What we'll find is that the ES125 will remove stock faster than the mighty Rotex. Even though the Rotex is supposed to be 'more aggressive' because it has more power and a bigger orbit. Looks to me like we need to look further than just a some simple factory specs. You have to look at the total system you have in your hand the moment you're standing there to do the job.  
 
All I was saying above is that the ES125 can become aggressive enough for the job the OP mentioned when you use a coarse grit on it. I wasn't comparing it to any other sander, because I simply look at the practical situation at hand and the ES125 is the only sander the OP has. And when you put 320 on it you can get a really nice and smooth finish but when you put 40 or 50 grit on it it can take off a lot more stock, so it is more aggressive with a lower grit. I really don't see why you should react to my use of the word aggressiveness the way you do, it's hair splitting.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Alex,

I don't have any more to add to this thread, so I'll just let other members have a go at it, if they choose.

Thanks.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

It will work just fine.

May not be quite as quick as a rotex but, with some 60 grit or 40 it will take it right off.

 

[1chipster]

Hi Everyone,
Just thought I would give an update on my project. On one 2x6,  I scraped off what paint I could then took my trusty ES 125  with crystal 100 and it nicely removed the small areas of paint that were left.  The crystal did not however, work as well on the other 2x6 where the paint was much more intact.  It really didn't remove any of the paint but only dulled the surface.  I took a sample of Rubin that was included in the sample pack that came along with the ES and tried that.  The grit number was not listed on the back but I surmise it was about 60-80.  It did a great job at removing all of the paint although from reading previous posts, I didn't  have to remove all.  Even though the ES 125 is not a powerful sander, with the right paper it did a great job.  Thank you all for such a lively and interesting discussion.