Window sash 'Reproduction' pics added of final product

[Pete Pedisich]

Hi, (I also posted this question at SMC, if it looks familiar)

I've been asked to make a reproduction window sash to replace an old one that is falling apart from aparent water damage (shady location + years without paint).
The old one was made with wedged through-tenons where the muntins meet the rails/stiles, and the frame was made with wedged & pinned through-tenons.

My question is, can I duplicate this window with a typical window sash router bit (Whiteside/Lee Valley/Amana/etc) and use loose tenons instead of through-tenons?
I plan to use use Titebond III and Fir or Cedar or White Pine, sound ok?

Thanks for any help and suggestions.

Pete

Dimensions: 25.375" (25 3/8") wide x 20.625" (20 5/8") high x 1.187" (1 3/16") thick
The 25.375" dimension is across the 3 panes. 1 muntin is missing, but it was a 3 over 3.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I have 100+ old window sashes just like you described.
If you can send me a picture, I may have a sash just as you need.

 

[jpb]

I've used the Freud Window Set to profile the wood and the Domino for the joinery.
Jim

 

[Pete Pedisich]

I have 100+ old window sashes just like you described.
If you can send me a picture, I may have a sash just as you need.

Wow! thanks, I'll take a pic and dims and post tomorrow.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I have 100+ old window sashes just like you described.
If you can send me a picture, I may have a sash just as you need.

Wow! thanks, I'll take a pic and dims and post tomorrow.

no problem. It is kind of a hobby of mine and possibly my next carrer
move. I have numerous clawfoot tubs old door slabs hardware
plumbing fixtures wood storm windows and so on. Someday I
want to open an architectual salvage store. The pride of my
collection is numerours wall mount tank toilets pre 1930.

 

[Brice Burrell]

no problem. It is kind of a hobby of mine and possibly my next carrer
move. I have numerous clawfoot tubs old door slabs hardware
plumbing fixtures wood storm windows and so on. Someday I
want to open an architectual salvage store. The pride of my
collection is numerours wall mount tank toilets pre 1930.

Hard to imagine a toilet as a source of pride, you life must be in the crapper or maybe it's going down the drain. ;D Okay, it's late you'll have to excuses the bad jokes.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Ironicly today was Thomas crapper day!!
Brice, I have seen the old wall mount tank toilets sell for
well over $1000.00.  The tank lids fetch up to 500 bucks.

I have a thing for all old building materials.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Ironicly today was Thomas crapper day!!
Brice, I have seen the old wall mount tank toilets sell for
well over $1000.00.  The tank lids fetch up to 500 bucks.

I have a thing for all old building materials.

No, I was just joking, those old wall mounts are super cool. I remember throwing a couple in the dumpster when I worked for a guy in my teens. At seventeen I had no appreciation for the tragic lose that it was.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Pete-

I have window sahses built just like that but, I don't have any 6 over 6 ones, 6 lights.

Do you perchance have a salvage store near you?

That may be your best bet.  I know a couple guys in CT and VT that could match those but maybe not willing to do just one.

If you have to re make one, I suggest using cypress.

Sorry man, I wish I had one like that.  Most I get from around here are 2 over 2's or 1 over 1's.

Edit:  That should be fairly simple to reproduce on a table saw.  Those were probably ordered from a pattern book or made with a plane.

 

[Pete Pedisich]

Thanks anyway! appreciate you looking.

 

[Michael Kellough]

This is no help with building new windows but when you get them made
there is some very interesting info to be found at the link posted in woodsman's
Post and Beam Arbor thread.

He treated the wood for the arbor with genuine Pine Tar.
The supplier he linked to is Solvent Free Paint
They also sell pure cold pressed linseed oil paint. There is a very interesting pdf
explaining the superiority of this traditional paint to the modern stuff.

Click on the pdf file titled Windowcraft at the bottom of this page.
Anyone interested in architectural preservation, the mechanics of paint,
oil based finishes, or simply a less toxic alternative to commercial paints
will find it an interesting read.

 

[Pete Pedisich]

Thank you Michael, I am very interested in that info.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

They used to paint exteriors of houses with a coat of linseed oil followed by a top coat of paint.

The linseed oil would penetrate the wood to help preserve it.

If you can find it, use cypress.  Possible spanish cedar, aka puke wood.  The stuff smells horrible and it's oil gets on everything and stinks.

 

[wrl]

I have the same type of windows in my 1846 Greek Revival home.  I began to restore some of them a couple of years ago They are six over six and look the same as yours with mortise and tenon construction . no glue in joints. I ended up making replacement muntins using  simple round over bits and straight bits for the rabbits. I then used a hand plane to better shape the profiles.  Some companies will make custom bits (Andrew Tool } and also Whiteside.  I put the parts back using yellow glue instead of pegs in the ends of tenons. I  had the paint stripped from the windows and removed the glass before starting the work.  Since the wood is dried out you must use linseed oil mixed with mineral spirits  before repainting.  I used Schrueder primer and Hascolac oil paint at least 2 coats of each.  I found a good article that describes the whole process in Fine Homebuilding No. 161 March 04 "Restoring Window Sashes" by David Gibney.  By now you probably have finished the project but you might find the article useful
 

 

[peter halle]

WRL,

Great post!  [welcome] to the forum.  I missed reading that article - I'll have to look it up.

Peter

 

[Pete Pedisich]

Hi, never got around to posting pics of finished window...I had some KD Doug Fir that I had in my garage for 6 years, cut it and let it sit for weeks - no movement.
Joined the muntins to frame with 3/8" dowels with 1" penetration in each piece (2.25" long 'through-dowels at middle joints), and 10x50 sipo dominos at corners. Titebond III glue, finished with 4 coats of Watco exterior oil/varnish with several days in between coats, until the end grain would soak no more. The glass (3 panes were original wavy glass, and 3 were new) is held in the old way with glazier's points and linseed oil based putty.
The next window I make will be the right way with pinned, through-tenons. I will need to get a hollow chisel mortiser or drill and chisel by hand.
I'm sure the dominos with titebond III will be good for 10-15 years, but I can clearly see now after making one, how the traditional way is superior.
But this was a great learning experience for me, and the end result was very robust, so it was satisfying.
I used my homemade mortising jig for all the dowel and domino mortises, it works well but setup takes time and patience...
Thanks for all the input!

Pete

 

[Charles Wilson]

Is it possible to make a window like this without a router table?  I have to make a lot of reproduction storms to replace the crusty aluminum one that are currently on the house.  Some how, I am pretty sure that the original ones weren't made with a table as the house was made in the 20's.

Thanks

 

[Pete Pedisich]

Is it possible to make a window like this without a router table?  I have to make a lot of reproduction storms to replace the crusty aluminum one that are currently on the house.  Some how, I am pretty sure that the original ones weren't made with a table as the house was made in the 20's.

Thanks

Chuck,

I have seen single-pane storm windows made with applied moldings to look like cope and stick joinery, but not divided-light, as it may be too fussy.
In the 1920's I'm sure they used a shaper or a molding head on some type of machine, 100 years before they did it by hand with a molding plane. I used a router table.
Oh, also I have seen a simple bead (acting as a glass stop) applied to 1x or 5/4 frames to give a simple yet traditional look, as is done often in beaded inset door openings in kitchen cabinetry.

Pete

 

[Charles Wilson]

Thanks Pete.