Woodpeckers $289.00 measuring tool vs. mine made from scrap and paper clips.

[Packard]

3D printing has been used for prototypes for a while.  I read recently that Porsche is using 3D printing for short-run production.  The surface finish on 3D printed parts is not particularly nice, so this probably works best for parts that are not visible.  When I say "nice" I mean they cannot replicate wood grain or mirror finish with this process. 

It has allowed manufacturers to correct design errors before going into production. 

I recall buying a Contigo insulated mug for my car.  The design was clearly not road tested.  I could only drink top half of the drink before the bottom of the mug hit the ceiling of my SUV.  Pre-production samples would have pointed this out (assuming they tested in a car and not in a showroom).  Since I only used the mug for my car, I gave it away. 

So I am not against short runs.  I was just showing that it can make for some frivolous products, and in the Woodpeckers realm, very high quality frivolous products. 

 

[Cheese]

I know it's not popular, but I'll step up to defend the OneTimeTool mechanic.

Others that are middling successful sometimes (though very rarely) recur later, the bar gauges that kicked off this thread being an example: they were originally offered in 2019 and seem to be doing a second production run now, which suggests they had a market, but not a large enough one to justify continuous production.

I'll also defend the OTT...what's the option? Having nothing at all?

The bar gauges were first released in 2011 which is when I purchased mine. So, there is an audience for them but as you note, it's certainly not large. It's probably only a 50-piece run every 18-24 months.

 

[RobS888]

I know it's not popular, but I'll step up to defend the OneTimeTool mechanic.

Others that are middling successful sometimes (though very rarely) recur later, the bar gauges that kicked off this thread being an example: they were originally offered in 2019 and seem to be doing a second production run now, which suggests they had a market, but not a large enough one to justify continuous production.

I'll also defend the OTT...what's the option? Having nothing at all?

The bar gauges were first released in 2011 which is when I purchased mine. So, there is an audience for them but as you note, it's certainly not large. It's probably only a 50-piece run every 18-24 months.

Even at their prices, I can't see them recouping much from a 50 piece run. 500 maybe. 50 is hobby level.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I guess I'm just pessimistic about it?
Why "advertise" the "retired" tools in the print versions of the catalog? To me it says "look at what you could have had, if you had joined our cult" That way you would have been in-the-know, pre-ordered, and waited for months? Who wants to do that? When I need something, it's usually pretty quick.
I think I'm like most people in that I only buy tools when I need them, or to up-grade something that "works" but could be better, wears out, breaks down, etc. Or I would buy something that I had just learned existed.
Learning about something that you just can't have because it's was a OTT, is just a tease. Plus, why waste the time, material, and space in the print catalog for something that you are not going to sell?

 

[Rob Z]

My guess is that it gives WP a gauge of the level of interest to run a tool again.  I recall for two OTT that I ended up buying, I called and asked when or if the tool would be run again. For one tool they had some spares and I was able to buy one.  For the other one, it worked out that fairly quickly WP ramped up production and I was able to order and get what I wanted. If the OTT weren't listed I never would have considered calling to ask.

Why "advertise" the "retired" tools in the print versions of the catalog? To me it says "look at what you could have had, if you had joined our cult"

 

[Mini Me]

Another take on OTT is they attract new customers who then decide that WP do make nice stuff and they will buy again, a loss leader is the term industry uses for this type of promotion. Amazon use it widely in books when they offer the first edition of some series at an absurdly low price hoping it will hook you into buying the rest.

 

[Cheese]

I just don't understand this reticence to purchasing practical/useful/needed tools because they are only available 4-6 months out. If you pull the pin on a new house that's not yet built, waiting 4-6 months is ok? If you pull the pin on a new automobile that won't be delivered for 4-6 months, that's also ok? But a tool that I make my living wage with...heck, that needs to be delivered RFN?

As I stated earlier, what are your options? To just soldier along with the kludge options that are available at the time?  My thought is if you need this item, then just order the darn tool and kludge along with the bandaid approach you're presently using and when the new OTT arrives rejoice and be thankful for it's arrival rather than to denigrate & diminish it's very existence. 

 

[Cheese]

Here's a great example of how machining "frivolous products" has been a boon for the woodworking consumer/consumer in general. 

Thirty years ago, if I had suggested during a design review that this integrated rod cover/5 mm hex wrench should be incorporated into a finished product, I would have been uninvited to the next design review.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

The arguments at the time would have been:
From a manufacturing perspective, why squander CNC resources on stupid widgets?
From a production perspective, why add the extra time threading these widgets into the rods?
From an inventory perspective, why allocate additional inventory space when allen keys are already available and inventoried?
From a sales perspective, why machine stainless rod when we already inventory 5mm allen keys that only cost 50 cents?

And yet, this item is a really nice, convenient piece of kit that really rounds out the Woodpecker offering. So, using/having the capability to CNC frivolous products/widgets is a good thing, it's what moves manufacturing expectation levels forward and raises the bar for so many items. It's a better world...

 

[Cypren]

When I saw that integrated wrench, I couldn't believe they did it, for all the reasons you outlined. It's such a slick little touch and emblematic of why I keep buying their products. Much like Festool, they sweat the details and really think through how people are going to use the tool day to day and where they might encounter friction.

 

[Bob D.]

I just don't understand this reticence to purchasing practical/useful/needed tools because they are only available 4-6 months out. If you pull the pin on a new house that's not yet built, waiting 4-6 months is ok? If you pull the pin on a new automobile that won't be delivered for 4-6 months, that's also ok? But a tool that I make my living wage with...heck, that needs to be delivered RFN?

As I stated earlier, what are your options? To just soldier along with the kludge options that are available at the time?  My thought is if you need this item, then just order the darn tool and kludge along with the bandaid approach you're presently using and when the new OTT arrives rejoice and be thankful for it's arrival rather than to denigrate & diminish it's very existence.

^^^ Exactly. And why whine about how WP chooses to conduct their business at all? How does WP offering these OTTs injure anyone? If they didn't offer them they might never exist. If you can't buy in the time frame hey have set then that is no different than if the tool was never made.

Those unique tools certainly won't come from the knockoff marketers. At their low prices they don't have any R&D money, only a 'steal what you can and copy' budget. So they will never innovate, only imitate.

 

[Packard]

I just don't understand this reticence to purchasing practical/useful/needed tools because they are only available 4-6 months out.

^^^ Exactly. And why whine about how WP chooses to conduct their business at all?

Well, it would be nice if they said that this is a new product and may not be available for several months.  Instead, they take the order, and the payment (which they should not have done until shipped) and then are increasingly vague about when they will ship. 

A little transparency would go a long way to mitigating annoyance.

 

[Cheese]

Actually, on every OTT they've ever offered, going back to 2011, along with stating the "order by" date they also state an APPROXIMATE ship date.

In past Woodpecker discussions the topic of conversation was why did they miss the ship date by such a large amount? That was a hot button around here for several years. They've gotten a lot better in that respect and so that issue just doesn't surface any longer.

As far as the payment issue goes, if you use a credit card it is not charged until the product is ready to ship. UNLESS you use PayPal, that's debited immediately and that's a function of how PayPal works so that's not a Woodpeckers issue.
I use PayPal for everything except for when I order Woodpecker items. They have my card number on file and just charge the card when the item is ready to ship.

 

[Mini Me]

The OTT I have bought have all had the approximate shipping date on them with no promises to keep that date. I agree that the quality is excellent but I might not agree that aluminium is the best material for rules especially if a marking knife is used with them. The hook rule I bought was made in stainless which is one tool that could have been in Aluminium as using a knife with it is not very convenient at all. I too don't get the fuss but everyone to his own opinion, Festool cop flack for some of the same reasons I guess.

 

[Packard]

I am looking back over my correspondence with Woodpeckers.  They kept saying that the order was on back-order and would ship  on March 6th (2018).  It shipped on 4/25/2018 and I received it 3 weeks after the promised date. 

It is a long time ago so my memory is hazy but I did threaten to contact American Express to cancel the charge. I don't recall why I did not do that.

In any event I would not threaten to cancel a charge for an item I had in hand.  That threat was because they charged the card and had not shipped the goods.

 

[Bob D.]

I just don't understand this reticence to purchasing practical/useful/needed tools because they are only available 4-6 months out.

^^^ Exactly. And why whine about how WP chooses to conduct their business at all?

Well, it would be nice if they said that this is a new product and may not be available for several months.  Instead, they take the order, and the payment (which they should not have done until shipped) and then are increasingly vague about when they will ship. 

A little transparency would go a long way to mitigating annoyance.

Sorry, I disagree, they say EXACTLY that. You know up front that it will be weeks or maybe months before the item goes into production. And it's not buried in the fine print, it's right there in the same size font as everything else about the OTT. I don't think there is anyone more transparent about the progress of a OTT from the time it is first announced until they ship it to you.

 

[Cheese]

I tried to post this earlier but I/the forum had some issues with it.  [tongue]
https://www.woodpeck.com/onetime-tool-modular-bar-gauge-system-2021.html

 

[RobS888]

I don't have an issue with them making OTTs, my wife bought me one. It does show me they have no idea how to gauge their market and I still think their prices are insane.

As I mentioned, it looks like they are constantly skimming and don't want their stuff to be affordable. sort of like Coach or an Italian shoe company.

 

[Cypren]

I don't have an issue with them making OTTs, my wife bought me one. It does show me they have no idea how to gauge their market and I still think their prices are insane.

As I mentioned, it looks like they are constantly skimming and don't want their stuff to be affordable. sort of like Coach or an Italian shoe company.

I think this misunderstands what makes products "affordable". The majority of cheap consumer products are made at massive scale (millions of units, minimum) by companies in China which have a vast supply of cheap workers, no meaningful labor laws or environmental standards that can't be waved off with a few bribes, a massive, locally-concentrated supply chain, and minimal quality control.

Woodpeckers is a US-based business that's producing small batches numbering in thousands rather than millions of units, using flexible tooling rather than fixed production lines, and carefully inspecting individual items before shipping them. All of these things have costs. Very high ones, relative to the price of mass market import goods. They're not pricing their goods at 500% profit margins and trying to become the Louis Vuitton of tools that only woodworking celebrities can afford. Compared to other American-made brands such as Starrett, they're actually fairly inexpensive, in many cases.

It's so weird to me that "quality comes at a price" is something that needs to repeatedly defended on a Festool forum, of all places.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I'm not doubting the quality (or even the price really) the only WP item that I have is arguably one of the most expensive things they sell. That track square is fantastic though.
I don't mind the price on a tool that I can actually buy "today", because now is when I need it.
The OTT tools are generally pretty innovative (from memory, I'm no expert on that stuff) and some of it would be nice to have. My point being that there is no alternative.
My other objection to OTT is what happens if you would ever need to replace it? For whatever reason, things happen and then what?
Now, I realize that it doesn't happen often, but as many of you know, I lost everything to a shop fire. It is hard to get past that, especially when you do this for a living. I can't even imagine what it would be like to have not been able to replace my DF500, TS55, of Rotex sanders. I have become quite dependent on these and would be very hard-pressed to work around not having them. My thought is always about being able to replace things, for whatever reason it may be needed, and to have a back-up.
The only thing that could have been worse is if this had happened in the time of the pandemic, where so many things are not available, but that is not a marketing choice.

 

[Bob D.]

"My thought is always about being able to replace things, for whatever reason it may be needed, and to have a back-up."

You answered your own question, buy two while/when you can. No worries mate.  [big grin]