Woodpecker's Align-A-Saw

[4nthony]

A few days ago, I received the Align-A-Saw kit from Woodpeckers. I've never had any table saw alignment issues but I've got some strong OCD tendencies so I placed an order when this was announced.

I set it up on my saw, grabbed my trusty Woodpecker's Saw Gauge 2.0, and started taking some measurements.

At the front of the Saw Plate, I set the gauge to zero.

I moved to the middle of the Saw Plate and the gauge moved very slightly + of 0

I moved to the back of the Saw Plate and my gauge moved to .004.

I moved the Saw Gauge to the opposite miter slot and took a measurement on the "rough side" of the Saw Plate.

At the front and set to 0.

Middle of the Saw Plate, just a hair -0 (-.0998?)

At the rear of the Saw Plate, (-.094-ish)

I noticed in the Deep Dive video, [member=7266]jeffinsgf[/member] takes his measurement on the side of the Saw Plate without the logo markings.

I wanted another measurement with the rough side of the Saw Plate and the Saw Gauge back in the left miter slot, so I remounted the Plate.

At the front I set the Saw Gauge to zero.

I centered the Saw Gauge and the front half measured ~.0075 (sorry about the glare).

And finally, at the back of the Saw Plate, my measurement remained at .0075.

So it looks like I've got a Saw Plate that is incredibly flat for 6", then it goes beyond the tolerance for the remaining 6". According to the specs, the Saw Plate should have a tolerance of .002.

In the video, Jeff gets "about a thousandth of an inch" across the entire width of the Saw Plate.

Also, the rougher side of my Saw Plate has, what looks to be a faded sharpie marking of "344". No clue what that means but the number is very close to the .004 I got above (.00344, perhaps?).

Anyway, I'm not going to adjust my table based on measurements from this tool as I don't think my table is out of alignment enough to warrant an adjustment. As shown in the video, it would've been nice to see a near perfect measurement across the entire width of the Saw Plate rather than half of the plate. Or, a gradual increase from front to back and not from center to back.

Based on this unscientific review, I'll give this Woodpecker's product 2-1/2 out of 5 stars.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Bit ruff to mark the dial gauge down because your saw plate isn't straight Anthony?

 

[peter halle]

I believe he is rating the Align-a-Saw which has that metal plate; not the gauge.

Peter

 

[luvmytoolz]

Ahh, sorry my mistake, that makes more sense now thanks!

 

[jeffinsgf]

Do you have a stand or a 1-2-3 block where you could use your dial indicator to measure the plate with it flat on the table top? If it's out of spec, please get in touch with Customer Service.

 

[festal]

if you have a surface plate and dial indicator you can sweep it and check.  clean the surface plate with IPA, put the indicator stand on it and sweep your plate with it see what readings you get

 

[Steve1]

Is the gauge's round dowel sitting on the chamfer of the miter slot ?

I have seen similar gauges, and didn't like using the chamfer as a datum.  A chamfer is not a well controlled (toleranced) feature.
I made a similar gauge, but used a flat bar as a datum that contacts the face of the miter slot.  That means I have to push the gage towards the face of the miter slot - no big deal. 
You might want to replace the dowel with a flat bar.

Also, you should put the saw blade on the arbor and check your blade lateral run-out.  I did that and found I had a run-out that moved with the arbor, not the blade.  A little sanding of the arbor washer, at the high spot got it much better.  (I call it washer, but it is one piece with the arbor)

The "saw plate" surface looks ground, which would make it very flat.  But if you want to check it, a piece of printer paper is about .002" thick.  You can use the table saw surface or other tool surface to check against.  Your table top won't be flat either, but you should be able to detect a consistent bend in the saw plate.

 

[derekcohen]

The time to purchase a gauge like this is when your saw cuts are not square, and to find out why. Why do it otherwise?

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[ChuckM]

4nthony has done a public service, confirming what many of us know that if your saw cuts well based on the actual cutting results, you don't need to do anything else.

Even a perfectly-tuned machine can produce a less than perfect result because of wood itself and/or user techniques.

For my SawStop and Kapex, I checked their accuracy when I first received them (about 7 years ago) using test cuts. The SawStop passed the parallell, 90*, miter and bevel cuts (but please don't ask me the tolerance of those test cuts as I don't know). The Kapex passed the bevel and 90* tests, but not the miter test. It took me a couple of hours and tons of scraps (because I didn't know about and watch Katz's tune-up video) before I could fix it.

Since then, I haven't done any adjustments to them as periodic checks on the cut pieces show they hold up their performances. The only adjustments done have been to the miter gauge or pointers/cursors.

 

[4nthony]

My rating of 2.5/5 in the first post was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek because half the plate is great, the other half, not so much. Take the average...there you go.

Do you have a stand or a 1-2-3 block where you could use your dial indicator to measure the plate with it flat on the table top? If it's out of spec, please get in touch with Customer Service.

I have a 38" Veritas aluminum straight edge and a WP 1-2-3 setup block. I was not able to slip a piece of paper under either, anywhere along the Saw Plate.

Is the gauge's round dowel sitting on the chamfer of the miter slot ?

The large dowel sits on two smaller dowels. The smaller dowels center the large dowel in the slot.

Also, you should put the saw blade on the arbor and check your blade lateral run-out. 

I will check this later today.

Some video observations:

This is a fairly new Ridge Carbide 40T Box Joint Blade. The gauge starts at 0 then gradually increases ~.002 at the arbor and coming to a stop a .003.


This is the Saw Plate on the smooth (logo) side. It starts at 0, wobbles a bit around 0 until center, then climbs to .005.


This is the Saw Plate on the rough (non-logo) side. It starts at 0, gradually increases to .008 at center, then comes to a stop a .007.


This is the Saw Plate on the rough (non-logo) side. I set the Saw Gauge to 0 at the center/arbor. It starts at -.092, hits 0 at the center, then comes to a stop at -.099


I sketched some exaggerations of the results. I would've expected the Saw Plate to have a more gradual change across the entire width, as was the case with the Ridge Carbide blade.

I don't know where my discrepancy is. Assuming a perfect Saw Plate, my miter slots would be shaped like a hockey stick. The hockey stick reverses when I reverse the plate, so my guess is the miter slots are fine. I can't find any gaps in the Saw Plate but the gauge still shows a hockey stick measurement. When measuring blades, the measurements are mostly gradual.

The Saw Gauge 2.0 has been a very useful tool and I'm glad I have it. I always check my table alignment after I trip a brake and it comes in handy for checking my fence from time to time.

As for the Align-A-Saw Plate, well, it wasn't something I needed. I wanted it because I wanted it. But I didn't need it.

I took some measurements with two more blades and also got fairly consistent results.

Examples:

Freud thin kerf: 0, .001, .001

SawStop 80T Titanium: 0, .002, .099
This blade has slightly raised lettering near the center which may have skewed the center reading. I placed the gauge between letters as best as I could.

Maybe I'll reach out to WP customer service and get their thoughts on the matter.

4nthony has done a public service, confirming what many of us know that if your saw cuts well based on the actual cutting results, you don't need to do anything else.

Agreed 100%. My takeaway from all this is that I need to stop buying tools that I think I need, that I think are cool, or that I think will help me achieve perfection in my woodworking.

The more I chase and fail to achieve perfection, the more frustrated I get, and the less fun this hobby becomes.

 

[montyss]

Take 2 more readings .. mark the Ridge carbide blade and your your saws arbor .. take a reading then rotate the arbor 180 deg to your mark on the blade and check your measurement again. See what the result is ? Report back

 

[derekcohen]

Take 2 more readings .. mark the Ridge carbide blade and your your saws arbor .. take a reading then rotate the arbor 180 deg to your mark on the blade and check your measurement again. See what the result is ? Report back

Exactly. Plus check the mitre slot. There are a number of possible reasons why a reading can vary.

The easiest way to check the blade is to use the saw to make a few cuts. Measure the saw cuts for accuracy.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[4nthony]

Take 2 more readings .. mark the Ridge carbide blade and your your saws arbor .. take a reading then rotate the arbor 180 deg to your mark on the blade and check your measurement again. See what the result is ? Report back

The Ridge Carbide, marked and measured at the front, then rotated 180° and measured at the back, is toed out .005" away from the fence.

This is within the tolerances of ≤ 0.010 for a SawStop PCS, per the video:


As I mentioned in my first post, I'm not planning on adjusting my table at this time. I'm happy with the quality of cuts I'm getting.

What I'm curious about is why the Saw Plate measures < .001 for the first 6", then for the next 6", gradually toes out .005"?

Why am I seeing a curve:

And not a line:

Yet I can't detect any curve in the Saw Plate using my Veritas straight edge (the Veritas has a .003 tolerance across its length).

Anyway, I reached out to Woodpeckers via their contact form. I'll update if I get a response.

 

[PaulMarcel]

I have their 1.0 version. It didn't come with the test plate. I like that addition; with the blades, I've had a few with a wobble in the plate that messes with the numbers until I rotate the blade and start over.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Paul, the plate is a new product. Launched just a few weeks ago.

 

[montyss]

Anthony did you loosen the arbor nut and then rotate the blade to be 180 deg from the orig marks for those measurements ?

Take 2 more readings .. mark the Ridge carbide blade and your your saws arbor .. take a reading then rotate the arbor 180 deg to your mark on the blade and check your measurement again. See what the result is ? Report back

 

[Michael Kellough]

I haven’t read the whole thread carefully so some of my comments might be redundant.

I checked my main Forrest blade several years ago and found the position on the arbor that yields the least runout and marked the blade, arbor and washer so I can get back to the optional relationship when I change blades.

Later, when I wanted to make sure the miter slot was parallel to the blade (I use the fence on both sides of the blade) I used a straight edge against that adjusted blade and measured between the straight edge and the miter slot. I wedged a straight piece of flat stock in the miter slot and checked to make sure the stock remained straight. I’m never go to do that again! My old Walker Turner saw is a royal pain to adjust. The trunnions hang from the table so they have to be adjusted  [crying]

The WP plate might not be perfectly flat but a piece of paper is at least .004” thick. If you have a good straight edge test with fine feeler gauge.

If you want to use the miter slot to test the WP plate you have to test the miter slot first. Fix a straight edge as close to parallel to the miter slot as you can and then run the indicator along the straight edge with the plunger riding the upper part of the miter slot, since that is the part the the WP rod rides. You’ll probably have to make or buy a rig that can hold the indicator at the appropriate angle.

 

[Steve1]

When I first checked my table saw, I found the alignment with the miter slot was not very good.  And it really didn't have provisions for adjustment.  The spindle assembly was bolted to the table top through clearance holes, and already pushed over as far as it would go.  I had to neck down the mounting screws to give some more adjustment.

Also found some wobble in my blades that I was able to mostly get out by sanding the appropriate spot on the arbor face. (The arbor, not the blade, was the problem)

So it is worth going through the exercise of checking.

 

[Cheese]

Is the gauge's round dowel sitting on the chamfer of the miter slot ?

Actually Woodpecker's implementation is quite clever. The large dowel/cylinder mounted to the bracket sits on 2 smaller dowels/cylinders that travel in the miter slot. Any variations in the miter slot width may cause the 2 small dowel pins to move from side to side, however the large dowel pin will always remain centered between the 2 smaller dowel pins thus the centerline of the miter slot is always the datum line. A really simple & reliable method for sure.  [smile]

 

[4nthony]

Anthony did you loosen the arbor nut and then rotate the blade to be 180 deg from the orig marks for those measurements ?

I did not. I left the arbor nut tight and only turned the blade 180°. I checked the runout on the arbor itself and the gauge barely moved. Like 1/10th of .001". The very slightest of movement. I'll do it again.

I haven’t read the whole thread carefully so some of my comments might be redundant.

Long story short, I bought a thing. My expectations of thing were X. My reality was Y. Expectations > Reality.

Currently trying to figure out how to accurately measure thing to see if it's in spec or out of spec.

Realizing none of this is all that important (my saw was already within spec using implements other than thing), convincing myself to stop falling for thing marketing, and to no longer buy things I don't need.

When I was into photography, I believe my behavior -- obsessing over mystical numbers -- was called "measurebating".