Woodpeckers square being shipped

[greg mann]

Interesting that barnumb has 3 posts and all in the last 2 hours defending woodpeckers' inability to produce a rather simple product in a timely manner.

Your last post is a copy of one I've seen before.  It only confirms what I'm saying.  It's an amazing mom and pop operation that has grown beyond their ability to properly manage.  That's not a bad thing but they need to hire professional management and logistic personal for the business side so that they can concentrate on the tool and quality side.

I don't need data to see that they can't even come close to meeting their shipping goals.  Richard even admits that he has a difficult time predicting orders and then fulfilling them.  Hire people that can do those things and then he can concentrate on what made his company special, quality tools that people are willing to pay for.

He waits until the orders are all in before he starts the production process which usually begins by ordering the raw materials.  With people in place to run the business side of the company they could actually have materials on hand and begin production before they start taking orders.  Proper analysis of past sales will produce fairly accurate numbers that they can begin to work off of.

It must be exhausting to be a industrial management consultant on top of everything else...

The products from this fine company may look "rather simple", but if you actually take the time to study such things as the manufacturing and quality steps involved, you'll find out that they're anything but simple.

I truly believe that the people running this company are diligently working to continually improve on all fronts and that they're doing it on their schedule, since they're the ones privy to all the variables involved.

In the meantime, since everyone is so freely doling out advice, perhaps i can also make a suggestion that might be helpful until your square arrives: grab your coupon and run on down to HF and get one of their squares to tide you over.  just remember to add 3.5 degrees to your readings to arrive at 90.  simple trig really.  after all, isn't a cheap tool better than--oh i forget how that goes...

this is my first post on this thread and i'll try not too post too many more or too often because apparently there are new limits in effect...

In overall manufacturing terms these really are fairly simple products. Anodizing, at this late date, should be very well controlled for WP. I am sure they have batched enough product over the years that anodizing variables could have been identified and eliminated. It appears on the surface at least that WP has not learned how to run economically in smaller batch sizes. Tools and fixtures cannot be that complex and most products are of relatively small size, meaning machines should be capable of holding multiple setups that never need to be broken down or that can be re-established in mere minutes. If they are using primarily vertical machining centers they need to explore the advantages of horizontal machines, which would allow them to increase permanent fixture availability and workpiece load and unload while the machines continue to run.  In contrast, Veritas has a product line far more diverse and complex and they manage to do it.

That said, the hardest part is to match a sales model to a complimentary production model. These, taken together, create a business model. WP may be very successful overall and one can argue their delivery shortfalls will not tick off a base of customers willing to wait for unique products. I am also quite sure, make that positively sure, that they are doing themselves some long-term harm that will cost them a huge amount of business going forward by so grossly missing delivery dates. Growth really needs to be managed and factored into the equation. To offer a host of OTTs at the same time you are moving into a new facility is not a good plan. It appears production planning is following sales initiatives instead of preceding it. Unique products will only get you so far. There are some obviously very talented people at WP. They need to focus like a laser on improving delivery instead of new products before a major part of their market gives up on them. Put another way, if your challenge is not knowing whether yor orders will be for 1 piece or 10,000, then you need to be able to handle either.

 

[Neal W]

It seems like they have done the precision squares a few times now.  Perhaps enough times that it could almost be a stock item.  Perhaps they evaluate that.  A few of those on their website appear to never have been run again.  This is the (by my best guess) the 4th time they have run these precision squares.  (I noticed a couple of the one time tools are now stock item, the 641 and the 50" Rule).

 

[Greg M]

Maybe I'm not communicating my thoughts clearly.  I have given Richard praise for how far he and his wife have taken their company but any company once it gets big enough has to bring in specialists to run different aspects of the business.  If you don't then you have to stop the growth beyond what your team can manage or you'll end up doing long term damage to your company. 

Woodpeckers has the potential to be much larger then they are now.  With the right team they could expand in a way that will increase sales, reduce production costs, reduce pricing some (to spur more sales), and still maintain their very high quality. 

I'd love to see them grow so that they could move on from this OTT model.  It's fine when it's on a small scale but it's obviously grown out of control.  Their customer base seems to be large enough that they could just introduce new regularly stocked items.  The right personal can predict what will sell and in what quantity with fairly good accuracy.

 

[peter halle]

I am not getting into the pro or cons of the Woodpeckers OTT system.

I only offer this as food for thought:  We are not that far past some economic times that rocked the professional and personal worlds of companies both small and large.  I certainly know that my micro company was affected.  Lessons were learned the hard way in that "downturn" and many companies made severe sacrifices, especially when they had employees that they never thought that they would.

Smaller sized firms are very cautious now and many have learned a lesson the hard way and will be less willing to produce and then see if it sells.

Peter

 

[jeh]

Maybe I'm not communicating my thoughts clearly.  I have given Richard praise for how far he and his wife have taken their company but any company once it gets big enough has to bring in specialists to run different aspects of the business.  If you don't then you have to stop the growth beyond what your team can manage or you'll end up doing long term damage to your company. 

Woodpeckers has the potential to be much larger then they are now.  With the right team they could expand in a way that will increase sales, reduce production costs, reduce pricing some (to spur more sales), and still maintain their very high quality. 

I'd love to see them grow so that they could move on from this OTT model.  It's fine when it's on a small scale but it's obviously grown out of control.  Their customer base seems to be large enough that they could just introduce new regularly stocked items.  The right personal can predict what will sell and in what quantity with fairly good accuracy.

As a small business owner I respect their desire to run their business as they see fit. If you don't like don't buy from them. Their model enables them to offer tools that would never be sold otherwise. Be thankful they exist and make great products and give up trying to tell them how to run their business. As Peter says a lot of small (and large) businesses were stung during the last recession and are not willing to build up big inventories.

And there always is the Chinese factor that could be keeping them in check. It would not be hard for a US company to copy their tools and have them made China at a ridiculously low price point at the same quality level. The OTT model keeps them from getting burned. A company like Woodcraft is more than capable doing that the Woodpecker's with little risk to themselves.

The Chinese are good at copying and are always getting better. Making fancy rulers, squares, measuring sticks, and other items is not hard to do when you have access to the equipment and their country has more manufacturing capability than the US will ever have. It's unfortunate that they have overtaken the US and we are 100% dependent on them.

An enterprising person could go to Alibaba and procure a company to make an exact copy of anything. There is no copyright or patent protection for most if not all of their items. Hopefully this will never happen because if it does companies like Woodpecker's won't be able to compete. They are an asset to the woodworking community.

 

[bkharman]

I have said it before... Although I am often not a big fan of the OTT process, I have bought items in that category from Richard at WP and John at Bridge City. They are both great small business owners and have done wonders for a lot of us on this forum.

I have also spoken to Richard personally about some enhancements to certain tools and while the ideas haven't been implemented,  Richard was keen on some of the ideas and who knows... Maybe in a second run they might show up. I personally won't lose any sleep over it.

I also deal with the guys at Seneca and Jerry at Precision Dogs and I think that a majority of this user group can agree that the tools they produce enhance a lot of our work.

I work in software and know that missed deadlines make customers angry, upset, bitter, etc but in this world of 2 day delivery and videos on demand, I think people forget to slow down a bit and look around at the other humans all working together to make things.

Thank you to all the business owners out there for making products and enhancing lives... I know it feels good when my software makes someone's life better.

Cheers. Bryan.

 

[Billedis]

I agree [member=21412]bkharman[/member].  We all need to take a deep breath and just think positively.  Regards, Bill

 

[Hurricane Whisperer]

Woodpeckers is making fine tools.  They have regular production items and the one time concept that allows them to feel out a limited market and still make money. 

It's a great idea.  It gives us items that wouldn't ordinarily make it to production.

They have a reasonable order period and when it's closed, they know how much material to order and they make the production run as efficiently as possible.

They are able to leverage the advantage of flexible cnc machinery and domestic production against cheap labor overseas.

They made a market that get's people to order a set of squares for a little over $300.00.

I'm inspired by them and I hope they keep up the good work.

 

[sancho57]

You guys crack me up,

Getting all wrapped around the axle over a companies production capabilities and scheduling.

It's simple, buy it or don't buy it..

I'm guessing that dances with the stars is over and folks are bored

 

[grbmds]

You guys crack me up,

Getting all wrapped around the axle over a companies production capabilities and scheduling.

It's simple, buy it or don't buy it..

I'm guessing that dances with the stars is over and folks are bored

Boy, you got that right. I love their tools and just take the delay as part of the purchase. If I don't want to wait I'll just find something else to serve my needs.

 

[Slartibartfass]

You guys crack me up,

Getting all wrapped around the axle over a companies production capabilities and scheduling.

It's simple, buy it or don't buy it..

I'm guessing that dances with the stars is over and folks are bored

Hey "America's got talent" is on....... So the p!$$!ng and moaning can't be related to boredom.... Patience is a virtue.

Although I agree with one comment that its maybe not too helpful to put out one OTT tool after another and building a huge backlog. WP should take a little breather.... my 2c....

 

[joraft]

... their delivery shortfalls will not tick off a base of customers willing to wait for unique products.

I've been firmly in that group for years.