Woodpeckers ultimate doweling jig ...

[Birdhunter]

I guess I am the odd man out here. I have both the 500 and the 700 Domino machines, use them a lot, but still ordered the Woodpecker dowel jig.

I've always wanted to learn to use dowels, but have been very frustrated with the results. This jig looks like something I can experiment with and get good results.

I absolutely do not expect it to replace either Domino machine!

 

[RKA]

I'm trying to understand something and either I'm not getting it or there is something missing in the utility of this jig.  If you were drilling two mating pieces (think picture frame with mitered corners) and need to maintain your reference surface so both pieces sit flush with one another, you need to reference off one edge of the jig for part A and the opposite edge of the jig for part B.  The end stop doesn't seem to allow for that and the two outside holes aren't necessarily equal distances from the outside edge of the jig either.  It seems like one of the bushings is fixed and the remaining three can float equidistant from each other. 

Now, if I'm centering the dowels, then it seems I can flip the jig and reference off the outside edge of each mating piece without issue.  But if there was any variation in thickness between the two pieces and I wanted to reference off the same face, it's not possible? 

 

[clark_fork]

I have checked and mm dowels are available in NA. In the absence of a Domino 700, perhaps a 10mm dowel would be a workable solution when needed. 10mm dowels come 10mm x 40mm

The other possibility is the use of this to cut mortises for the 10mm Soss Barrel Hinge. It seems the spacing would be just right to easily cut the pair of Soss Hinge  mortises. I sent a note to WP.

I really like the fence system and am wondering if you could use the main body of the jig as a fence to make a downward Domino cut.

It also looks like the jig could be used just to center holes for bolts etc. in lieu of using a drill press to assure a straight hole.

 

[waho6o9]

"The other possibility is the use of this to cut mortises for the 10mm Soss Barrel Hinge. It seems the spacing would be just right to easily cut the pair of Soss Hinge  mortises. I sent a note to WP."

Wise ^^ I'd be interested to hear what WP has to say.

Thanks

 

[Brock Winans]

RKA,
See the attached photo of two mitred pieces that I drilled while testing the doweling jig.  This is how I drilled them with double rows of dowels:
1.            Determine the good side of the 2 pieces to join.  That is the face side.
2.            Determine the spacing of dowels and the best location on the cut face of the joint to avoid drilling through the tapered thickness.  I kept the math simple and used 1” spacing for the holes.
3.            Mark a common line on the bottom of each piece equidistant from your final hole locations. This is done whether you use 2, 3 or 4 holes to join the pieces. 
4.            Determine the center of the 2 holes on the scale.  With the 1” spacing and two holes to drill that is at the ½” mark on the scale.
5.            Set the adjustable jaw to accommodate the dimension of the first row.
6.            Clamp piece one, good face to jaw, and drill holes.
7.            Clamp piece two, flipped from piece one (also good face to jaw), drill holes.
8.            Set adjustable jaw to accommodate the dimension of second row of holes.
9.            Repeat drilling steps 6. And 7.

You can find the point equidistant from the drill guides that are used (2, 3 or 4) and have that as your reference “0” point.
I tried multiple 45 degree miter joints of different sized work pieces this way, they all joined well.  You can do this same procedure with other angle mitred joints as well.
For multiples, the stop won't work for mitres, you can clamp a cut-off with the same angle as a stop.

Let me know if this helps, or if you have other questions.

Thanks, Brock

 

[RELee]

I own quite a few Woodpecker products and one thing has become very clear to me: some of their stuff is much better than others.  I use their rules, precision T-squares and their associated accessories on a regular basis and, quite frankly, they are some of the most useful tools I've ever used. 

I purchased their Cross Dowel Drill Jig and accessories last year, on the other hand, and it turned our to be a huge disappointment.  The tolerances of the dowel/drill guides were too tight and, long story short, the guides are now way too loose.  In my experience, you better have a very well made drill press (and some very good clamps) if you intend on putting a WP dowel guide to use.

 

[Kev]

Circling back on this ... for joinery, I like my Dominos, so the question I'm posing of this v's a Mafell DD40 is about capability.

I've got nothing against cool tools and if they're low volume and unique they're going to be expensive (though I'm strongly opposed to the OTT business model).

Anyway ... I'm still in the dark about why this jig is 'ultimate', the innovation for adjusting the hole spacing consistently is cute and you get a lot of metal, but at $649 + 4 x $59.99 = $848.96 US it's got to do something that would make me consider it, along with the long wait for their stupid OTT game, that I simply can't achieve with any other tool to earn the title 'ultimate' and give me a reason to bite.

In all honestly, this looks like a big fat cumbersome thing that will be a pain in the backside to turn over and drill after each time you clamp an end board ... funny how they never show that part in their video.

Because the DD40 is freshly available through Toolnut, I'm posing the DD40 comparison very seriously. The DD40 is more expensive than the WP jig in the US, but it's a very serious tool ... and it is very quick to setup and precise in execution.

The WP jig offers metric bushings, but it still using antiquated imperial calibrations for the jig itself ... so the attraction for non imperial workers is dismissed further in that.

Is it's 'unique feature' it's close cluster of evenly spaced holes? If that's it, then I can comfortably ignore it as I'd likely use Dominos in such applications.

 

[Holmz]

There is a lot of overlap between domino, zeta and DD40.

The dowel jig is like comparing a hand plane with a jointer. I like using a hand plane, and it is cheaper and the power source runs on beer and burgers.

 

[clark_fork]

"The other possibility is the use of this to cut mortises for the 10mm Soss Barrel Hinge. It seems the spacing would be just right to easily cut the pair of Soss Hinge  mortises. I sent a note to WP."

Wise ^^ I'd be interested to hear what WP has to say.

Thanks

Hello ,
I was just on a web source for the 10MM SOSS Barrel Hinges, which shows that a 10mm drill bit is needed for installation.  We are offering 10mm drill guides as an accessory with this OTT.  You can request that size instead of the ¼” (.250”) or 3/8” (.375”) drill guides and pins that come with the base set we are offering.  You need to specify that in the comments area when ordering. 

Or, you can order the 10mm set separately.  The separately offered drill guide and pin sizes are:
5mm (0.19685”)
6mm (0.23622”)
8mm (0.31496”)
10mm (0.39370”)

Thank you for your interest.

Best regards,

Brock Winans

 

[Kev]

There is a lot of overlap between domino, zeta and DD40.

The dowel jig is like comparing a hand plane with a jointer. I like using a hand plane, and it is cheaper and the power source runs on beer and burgers.

[member=40772]Holmz[/member]

Yes and no .. the doweling jig still requires a drill with a collar in a sleeve ... which is one of my least liked approaches. Though to your point .. nobody says it has to be a power drill [wink]

 

[Svar]

I'm still in the dark about why this jig is 'ultimate'

They called it "universal" at first, but people started complaining that if you can't clamp 300 mm wide piece of timber in it, its not really "universal". So they changed name to "ultimate"... oh well.  [wink]
There were other options like "turbo", "platinum addition" or "plus" although the jig isn't made of platinum and it can't add, so those didn't work either.

 

[Kev]

I'm still in the dark about why this jig is 'ultimate'

They called it "universal" at first, but people started complaining that if you can't clamp 300 mm wide piece of timber in it, its not really "universal". So they changed name to "ultimate"... oh well.  [wink]

Oh dear ... That's pretty sad!

I actually cringe whenever I hear of a product with 'ultimate' in its name. Always reminds me of the garbage promoted in late night TV ads - along with a set of steak knives [big grin]

 

[Svar]

I actually cringe whenever I hear of a product with 'ultimate' in its name.

I'm not.

 

[Kev]

I actually cringe whenever I hear of a product with 'ultimate' in its name.

I'm not.

Yes - but that's a tag line ... [big grin]

Big difference.

BMW would never release a car model and call it "The Ultimate" as it simply wouldn't be and would cause embarrassment.

 

[RKA]

[member=62046]Brock Winans[/member]
That's helpful, thanks for clarifying.  So let's take a common rail and stile am I doing the same?  Mark the center on both pieces line up the jig to that mark and drill?

 

[Brock Winans]

For a rail and stile you can use the stop.  See attached.  Thanks

 

[stvrowe]

I have several Woodpeckers products and they are of high quality with some unique features.  The pricing for this jig is not even Festoolish, it is Mafellish and way overpriced for its function.  I like the variable spacing of the guide bushings however; the claims of compatibility with the 32mm system at about 5 minutes into the video is incorrect.  Sorry, but 1-1/4" = 31.75mm and not 32mm.  While two or three holes spaced 31.75mm apart aren't much of a deal, as you progress the error forward, that difference adds up and on hole 10, the hole position error is 2.5mm which is half the diameter of a Euroscrew. This is problematic for 2 reasons;
1) I bore for 32mm across the depth of a panel for drawer slides and place 3 screws (front, center, and rear) in the slide.  The holes have to line up with the hardware.  The Woodpeckers system will be off by more than 5mm for the typical length slide I use on a cabinet.
2) For doors, I use a balanced system meaning it doesn't matter whether a door is LH or RH, the hinge boring is identical.  With the progressive error of 0.25mm for every hole in a shelf pin arrangement, I could not achieve a balanced boring arrangement with the Woodpeckers system without starting in the very center of a panel.  Further, accounting for the 0.25mm error in every hole, makes math less easy in positioning door hing positions and obtaining the proper overlay or inset clearances.  This defeats on major ease of use feature for the 32mm system.

I think purchasers of this product for use with the 32mm system as it is currently designed will have major headaches with it.  Needless to say, I am not biting on this one.

 

[Ajax]

Looks like a nice piece of kit.

Please note that there's a whole community out there who have no interest in or have never heard of Festool.  Heck, many folks see a $900 specialized hand held mortiser that is coupled with a $600 dust vac and pricy Domino consumables and they shake their heads.  An elegant doweling jig makes sense for them.  All they need is a drill and some cheap dowels.  Very universal.  I only question the price range for this jig.  I think it would do better at below $500.  But maybe WP has some marketing data that tells them the price is right for the consumers they are targeting.

Before I got my DF500 and DF700 I got great results with a $50 doweling jig and then a $300 MortisePal.  I still have both.  Now and then I use them because the Domino is overkill or awkward for the application.  The MortisePal was a great tool in a great price range IMO.  Sadly, folks vote with their wallets and that company went under.  Thats reality.

 

[Kev]

Looks like a nice piece of kit.

Please note that there's a whole community out there who have no interest in or have never heard of Festool.  Heck, many folks see a $900 specialized hand held mortiser that is coupled with a $600 dust vac and pricy Domino consumables and they shake their heads.  An elegant doweling jig makes sense for them.  All they need is a drill and some cheap dowels.  Very universal.  I only question the price range for this jig.  I think it would do better at below $500.  But maybe WP has some marketing data that tells them the price is right for the consumers they are targeting.

Before I got my DF500 and DF700 I got great results with a $50 doweling jig and then a $300 MortisePal.  I still have both.  Now and then I use them because the Domino is overkill or awkward for the application.  The MortisePal was a great tool in a great price range IMO.  Sadly, folks vote with their wallets and that company went under.  Thats reality.

You can't compare this jig to a Domino. Further, there's a lot more people on the planet aware of Festool than WP.

Still haven't heard a magical feature that makes this WP jig worth considering ... so this is certainly a None Time Tool for me.

 

[Cheese]

The MortisePal was a great tool in a great price range IMO.  Sadly, folks vote with their wallets and that company went under.  Thats reality.

Maybe that whole community that's out there isn't quite as large as originally thought?  [eek]

The 2 largest communities I see are the hand saw & chisel group and the Duo Dowler/Domino group.