Working with Zebrawood

[Neill]

I purchased some zebrawood today.  I have been admiring this wood for a while and decided to finally make the plunge. 
After I made the purchase I decided to do some research and am now questioning my decision. I find that in addition to it's port-a-potty smell, it is subject to tear-out and is difficult overall to work with.

I was thinking about making a side solid cherry table with the zebrawood as a breadboard edge.  I would want to round over the breadboard edges with my 1400 and join the edge to the top with my domino.  I also have the option of using pocket hole joinery.  I could use butt, half-lap or mitered joints in the corners.

As far as sanding, I have numerous options including my Rotex 125, ETS 125, LS 130 and a 6" Porter Cable VS ROS.

As far as finish goes, I was thinking of a Vintage Cherry dye stain and garnet shellac for the cherry, blond or orange shellac for the zebrawood and water based poly for the entire piece.

I would appreciate any comments, particularly regarding the workability of the zebrawood.

Thanks.

Neill

 

[nickao]

Don't worry!

I use a lot of Zebrawood. It is not so bad to work with. Use sharp blades and bits. The smell is not great during cutting but after a project is done you can not smell anything, especially once finished. Hopefully it is the quarter sawn variety as the flat sawn just has cathedral grain that is not pretty like the cathedral in oak. The 1/4 sawn cutting gives the straight lined  look Zebra wood is known for.

It will be an amazing project!

The Zebra shown in the project has a clear blond shellac on it. As you can see if you get flat sawn and not a good piece you can end of with no striping at all!

The piece on edge is the quarter sawn edge and is what Zebrawood is all about!

I would use the blond or clearest shellac you can find for the Zebra, but that is personal preference.

Nickao

 

[jaegerhund]

I suppose Nick, that Zebrawood can look a a little "cold" and the shellac (especially a light blond) can warm it up a little bit?

Justin

 

[nickao]

Well shellac or any finish makes the wood pop. I love Zebra wood and its look as a compliment. I would not leave the wood unfinished, but I would not leave any lumber unfinished.

To much Zebra can detract from your project, but to much of anything can. I think the Garnett possibly may darken the background color diminishing the effect of the stripes popping out against the Zebra background color.

Nick

 

[Neill]

Nick,

Thanks and I agree with the shellac.  I did say that I would use the garnet on the cherry only.  I have used it before on cherry with great results.  The result was a very warm, satin finish.  I would not use the garnet shellac or any other colored dye or stain on the zebrawood.  It is just too beautiful all by itself. 

Have you used your domino with the zebrawood?  If so, did you have any problems?

By the way, the wood I bought was quartersawn and the color contrast is striking.

Neill

 

[nickao]

The domino is one Festool I do not have. I just do not need it at this moment. I am sure I will purchase it sooner or later, but my sales are just so so and I can only buy tools that make me money. Right now the Domino would be for fun.

If I get a job I could use it for I will purchase it based on everything the guys here say about it.

Sounds like you got a good piece of lumber! I have another massive  piece 72" x 12" x 3" just waiting to be used.

Nick

 

[KM]

Hi Neill,

I used the zebra as an apron on my bench, first time working with this wood. You're right, the smell is definitely funky but it does dissipate.

It's a tough wood to work with because I've found that the grain runs in more of random lines as opposed to straight and parallel. when you think you're routing or cutting with the grain you'll stumble upon a spot where the grain goes a different way causing tear out or chips. I discovered that if i took multiple (very) light passes the result was fine. nice and easy did it for me.

It really is a georgeous species which doesn't need much color added...IMO. Here are some pics of rough 4/4 D2S zebra sanding from 60 through 320 grit and finishing with danish oil. The key for me seemed to sand past 180 because when I applied the oil after the lower grits, too much of the oil soaked in making the wood much darker than I liked.

Hope this helps,
Ken
ps. even with the festool DC, Make sure you don't breathe any of this in. It REALLY is some NASTY STUFF!!!

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[Neill]

Ken -

I was hoping that you would respond since I saw your workbench and was VERY impressed, as I think everyone who saw it was.

Thanks so much for your input.

Neill

 

[KM]

I'm glad to be of assistance Neil.

If you are like me and bought the wood for it's natural beauty, I wouldn't want to change anything about it. I had some small offcuts leftover from the bench and played around with them to experiment a bit using only water based poly like so:

1. Sand from 60-150, apply coat of poly and dry
2. sand with 180, another coat of poly and dry
3. sand with 220, another coat of poly and dry
4. sand (this is getting repetitive-I know) with 320, dry for a week
5. Buff out with car polishing compound, wipe clean
6. Buff out using carnuaba wax to a luxurious finish

This was all done using the RO125 using both random orbit and rotary mode for the sanding, while the compound and wax were strictly rotary.

The pieces came out really sweet without the fake plastic look poly usually has. A  "close to wood" look which didn't alter the natural color of the zebra. I don't have the pics, but I would suggest experimenting with using a water base first. You can always go back and redo it if you like.

Ken

 

[nickao]

Wow Ken it must be like glass!

I sanded to 120, used three coats clear shellac screening in between coats all on the same day and then buffed a day later with wax and I could see myself and it was as smooth as a baby butt.

With your process it must be awesome.

With shellac all those coats can be done in a day and wax the following day with just as good a finish as waiting for the poly to harden. If you never tried it give it a look see.

And a super blond is as clear as a water based finish too. Alcohol based I love it!
Can you tell I love shellac!

 

[Neill]

Nick -

We all know what an awesome job Ken did on his workbench and how promising a wordworker he is already, even after just his first project.  We all look forward to seeing more of his craftmanship in the future.  Your zebrawood project looked great too.

I like the poly but I also like shellac.  The thing about shellac is that you can rub it out with some pumice followed by rottenstone to get an unbelievable finish.  You can also control the amount of gloss you desire.  I may try both methods on some cutoffs and see how it works before I finalize my table.

According to Jeff Jewitt, only hard surface finishes such as shellac and varnish can be rubbed out.

I appreciate your ongoing interest.

Neill

 

[nickao]

His first project is awesome!

The main issue with shellac is that alcohol can ruin the finish so I would not use it for a table top or at least use loads of wax.

Poly is more durable no question, so for a table that  gets glasses put down right on it without a coaster, shellac may not be the best .

Yeah rubbing a finish is fantastic, like french polish there is no better. I only use that on a museum pieces though, but talk about a fantastic finish and appropriate for reproductions and repairs on antiques too.

 

[KM]

Thank you for the compliments about my bench!

Hey Neill, not to hijack this thread but here's another situation I ran into which you might want to consider....

I am working on a cherry 3/4 VC ply desk and tried using Zinsser's seal coat 2lb. shellac and I'm having mixed results. I've sanded the ply and applied the sealcoat which makes the cherry much darker. The instructions say to then sand w/ 220, then seal, then sand. My plan was to use poly for the finish for the entire desk once it was all sealed.

The problem is that when sanding, how much do I sand the shellac? When I sand too much it all comes off. When I sand just a bit, the color seems too dark.
Is the purpose of the shellac (besides sealing the wood) meant to darken it? I guess one of the problems is that I'm not exactly sure of the purpose of doing the sealer. Do I need it??

I am at a crossroad right now with this project because I've just installed a cherry pergo type floor in the room and the desk is meant to be matching. I know the cherry will age darker, that's ok.

I am debating whether or not to just strip all the shellac and just use poly on everything. When looking at the darkened color, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I know..I know, Personal Preference comes into play. The last thing I want to do is install the desk and say "shit, I shoulda just finished with the poly"

Any suggestions Nickao or Neill?

Ken

 

[nickao]

The seal coat is NOT a a super blond. It is great for many of the darker woods, but should be thinned for the lighter woods.

I mix my own shellac mostly so I do not run into that problem much.

As far as sanding, the shellac should not come off and you should be getting a white powder I call swarf. You are either sanding to much, using to low of a grit or putting on to much shellac and not letting it dry enough. The correct amount of shellac you should be able to sand it into a powder in no more than 2 hours.

I use the seal coat on every inlay and have had no problems. You may be thinking all the shellac is coming off. Feel the wood before and after you sand the shellac. The pores and grain should feel significantly smoother.You will notice the benefit of the seal coat only after you put on the finish coats.

Finally you may just use poly better. Some guys just get used to a finish. Shellac does not work like poly. As a poster stated shellac is one of the only finished that can be truly rubbed out , poly can't , so if you are used to poly you may want to stick with that and test the shellac on some practice projects.

What I do not get is that poly tends to darken and yellow the wood much more than shellac, so I am not sure what is going on.

Nickao

 

[KM]

Sorry Nickao,

I didn't make myself clear. Still only on 2nd cup of coffee, up too late watching the election. I will take some pics right now and post them within half an hour.

Thanks

 

[KM]

Here are the pics

The photo shows 2 pieces. the piece on the left is completely unfinished, the piece on the right has been sealcoated and sanded several times. The color change bothers me quite a bit. I know I am probably doing something wrong, just can't put my finger on it

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Thanks!
Ken

 

[Neill]

Thank you for the compliments about my bench!

Hey Neill, not to hijack this thread but here's another situation I ran into which you might want to consider....

I am working on a cherry 3/4 VC ply desk and tried using Zinsser's seal coat 2lb. shellac and I'm having mixed results. I've sanded the ply and applied the sealcoat which makes the cherry much darker. The instructions say to then sand w/ 220, then seal, then sand. My plan was to use poly for the finish for the entire desk once it was all sealed.

The problem is that when sanding, how much do I sand the shellac? When I sand too much it all comes off. When I sand just a bit, the color seems too dark.
Is the purpose of the shellac (besides sealing the wood) meant to darken it? I guess one of the problems is that I'm not exactly sure of the purpose of doing the sealer. Do I need it??

I am at a crossroad right now with this project because I've just installed a cherry pergo type floor in the room and the desk is meant to be matching. I know the cherry will age darker, that's ok.

I am debating whether or not to just strip all the shellac and just use poly on everything. When looking at the darkened color, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I know..I know, Personal Preference comes into play. The last thing I want to do is install the desk and say "shit, I shoulda just finished with the poly"

Any suggestions Nickao or Neill?

Ken

Ken -

Not being that experienced myself, I don't want to say too much and screw you up.  I will say a few things and maybe someone else like Nick can also offer their input.

1)  I also tend to oversand, especially at the edges.  Remember that shellac only provides a very thin layer so it is easy to sand through it.  (You can tell everyone it was intentional.  You meant for it to look distressed)
2)  To help overcome this, I usually let the finish cure for at least a day before I sand and apply the next coat.  You could also try sanding every second coat so that you have a thicker layer of the finish.
3)  I also stopped using sandpaper in between coats and started using steel wool, seems less harsh.  On the first coats you might try the more coarse 00 and work your way up to 0000.
4)  I let the final coat cure for about 5 days.  I then rubbed it out with steel wool and Wool-Lube. I followed with 2F and 4F pumice and rottenstone all thinned with paraffin oil.  Came out great.
5)  Like Nick, I also made my own shellac.  You have much better control over the color this way.  Woodcraft carries a brand called Hock.  I bought all three shades and their thinner.  I actually spoke to Mr. Hock on the phone when I had some questions.  A real nice man to deal with.  And I love his product.
6)  Since shellac is its own thinner, small imperfections in any coat tend to disappear or be minimized when you apply the next coat.

I hope I was able to help.

(By the way, Ken, I just saw your pics.  I am not sure what color you are after, but I thought the sample on the right looked
spectacular.)

Neill

 

[nickao]

Now do a piece with poly, the change most likely is going to be almost the same.

Hock is a cool brand and company.

Also remember poly will yellow two years down the road far more than shellac will. And the Cherry will change within 6 months too, even under a finish.

Finishing is an entire topic in itself and also a business, one reason I just seal my inlays and sent them out and leave it to the buyer to finish them. I do finish all my furniture work.

Neill it is going to look fantastic no matter what you do. You sound like me I waste more time worrying and messing around wondering what the final piece will look like than actually doing the work!. Just do it and I am positive from what I  have seen of your work and your apparent  perfectionism it will be fantastic!

 

[KM]

Thanks guys,

hey Neill, keep us posted with the pics!!!
Nickao: So I guess you're saying just go with it. I'll do a test piece with the poly and decide then. I guess like others, I tend to overthink it and need to just go with it. Now it's time for me to do some mouldings (no, no kapex).
Thanks again.

Ken

 

[nickao]

I am a huge over thinker and it took me years to figure out what to let go and what not to. I lost a lot of money taking care of things clients just did not care about at all and only another woodworker may or may not have noticed.

Nick