WTS 150/7 vs ETS 150/5

[giuseppe antonelli]

Hello All,

I'm new to this forum, so forgive me if the topic has been already discussed somewhere.

I recently purchased  an ETS 150/3 for fine sanding, but now I need a more aggressive sander to remove vanish from my 15 (!) exterior shutter windows and doors and to sand some old wooden beams which I'll use to build a garage.

In my favorite shop I have the opportunity to buy either an used ETS 150/5 or an used PROTOOL ESP 150 E, which should be just a different brand for FESTOOL WTS 150/7 (isn't it?), sold at the same price.

Looking at FESTOOL product guide, WTS 150/7 appears to be complementary to my ETS/3 but I haven't found any review on WTS 150/7 or PROTOOL ETS 7 so I'd appreciate very much your help to get the right decision.

My doubts on WTS 150/7 is that it might be too aggressive and too difficult to control for vanish removal, on the other side ETS/5 seems to overlap in some way my ETS/3.

Many thanks in advance for your help,

giuseppe

[CTL 26E - TS 75 EQB - OF 1400 EQB -  OFK 500Q - ETS 150/3]

 

[Timtool]

the ETS 150/5 won't be that much different from your /3 model, nothing IMO to justify the purchase of both. And not really the right tool for the job you describe anyway.
The WTS is probably the best festool has to offer for the tasks you described.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Hello Giuseppe, welcome to the FOG.

The Protool ESP 150 E is indeed the exact same sander as the Festool WTS 150/7. They are also probably the most obscure and least owned sanders of them all. That's why you won't find any reviews on either of them. I think that here on the FOG perhaps only 2 or 3 people ever mentioned owning one. So it's very rare.

The angled sander is a type of sander that's typically used in the automotive industry, and unfortunately for Festool the Italian brand Rupes completely rules that industry in Europe. Nevertheless, Festool's been trying to get a foothold in that industry for some time now, and my guess is the WTS 150/7 was part of that offensive. Which, I think, for this particular sander was completely lost.

If you have to choose between a 150/5 and the 150/7 I'd say the 150/7 will add most to your arsenal. Timtool is completely right when he says the 150/5 and 150/3 are very much the same. So you won't gain much by adding a 150/5. But the WTS 150/7 is quite a bit stronger than the ETS 150/5 and with it's bigger stroke of 7 mm you will see a significant increase in removal rate.

I don't think controllability is an issue with the WTS 150/7. If you're only used to a sander like a ETS 150/3 the WTS will need some getting used to, but it is not as powerful as you might think. Take for instance the Rotex 150 FEQ, now that's a sander that's a lot more powerful. And even the Rotex 150 is very controllable. Ask your dealer if you can try the Protool sander before you buy it. That way you can judge for yourself.

But I think what you really need is a Rotex 150 FEQ. This sander is a big step up even from the WTS 150/7 and WAY faster. It has a lot more power and the rotary action removes paint/varnish a lot faster than any eccentric sander ever can.

 

[woodguy7]

Welcome to the FOG Giuseppe

I have never heard of the WTS 150/7 but I would agree with Alex in recommending the Rotex 150.  Fantastic all rounder.

Woodguy.

 

[AlexThePalex]

WTS 150/7 on Festool UK site.

[attachimg=1]  [attachimg=2]

Same sander, only the front plastic knee piece is different.

 

[giuseppe antonelli]

Hi,

thank you very much for all the replies.
Now things are more clear to me: I'll concentrate on PROTOOL ESP / FESTOOL WTS (very effective your comparison, Alex).
As suggested by Alex, tomorrow I'll go to my dealer to have a chance to test WTS.
I'll let you know the outcome of the test.

Your mentions of Rotex 150 is attractive, but, although my dealer has really good prices, I suspect RO
costs at least 300 euros more than the used WTS so I do not know whether to hope that he has one to try .

Thanks again because now I have a second and not less important reason to be happy with Festool Tools:
the opportunity to be part of this community!

 

[giuseppe antonelli]

Hi,

I return on this topic to ask for a suggestion on the next step.

I tested the used PROTOOL ETS 7 (WTS 150/7) to sand one of my shutter windows, using a 120 grit:

it works fine and it's confortable even using just one hand.

As you can see in the following picture, the only (in some way predictable!) drawback is that I need something else to completely sand the lamellae.

[attachimg=#]

However, given the good price and performance I bought the used ETS 7 as it's also suitable for other tasks.

To sand the lamellae my dealer suggests two options: ROTEX RO 90 DX, which can works also as a delta sander, or
the RUTSCHER RS 300, which has specific sanding pads for this kind of work.

So my questions are: which one do you think is best suited for sanding lamellae?
Are there other (hopefully cheapest) alternatives?  

Please, let me know if I'd better post this question on a new topic.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Kev]

The RO 90 was the forth Festool I purchased. It's combination of sanding heads and modes makes it IMO the best sander available. With the bonus of Festool DC and te range of GRANAT paper - suburb.

I was a little hesitant buying the DTS400 (already own a RUPES delta head sander that hadn't impressed) but I shouldn't have been.

Both are good for corners - but louvres ... ?

To me, the RS300 seems very versatile but I personally wouldn't choose it for louvres (it would be bulky/awkward) the RO 90 with the extended triangular pad attachment would be my GO TO choice.

(I have several Festool sanders now, with 4 more on my buy list ... The RS300 isn't one of them in my current thinking)

 

[giuseppe antonelli]

Thanks Kev for your very useful reply.

My dealer just called me to say that now he has both and tomorrow I'm going to see them.

Could you please tell me something on how dust extraction works with the RO 90 triangular pad?

Have you had the opportunity to use the RO 90 to polish?

Thanks again.

 

[BMH]

For the job you are describing the RO 90 with granat is the way to go. Over the past few months I have refinished a number of indoor cabinets, window frames, old chairs and having the rotex, randon orbital and the triangle pad all in one was great. The dust collection with the triangle pad is good, not as great as the circular pad. I have the DTS 400, DX 93 and the RO 90. The best dust collection in triangle pad is the DTS 400 followed by the DX 93 and the RO 90. If you disconnect the vacuum hose on the RO 90 you will notice in 5-10 seconds you have a problem. That being said I use the RO 90 indoor all the time and it has become my primary refinishing sander with the DTS 400.

Bruce

 

[Kev]

Thanks Kev for your very useful reply.

My dealer just called me to say that now he has both and tomorrow I'm going to see them.

Could you please tell me something on how dust extraction works with the RO 90 triangular pad?

Have you had the opportunity to use the RO 90 to polish?

Thanks again.

Agree with all BMH said ...

I havent personally used the RO 90 to polish, but I ahve heard very positive stories. I wouldn't hesitate using the RO 90 or RO 150 to polish (in ROTEX mode with the correct pads) based on what I've recently learnt from various sources.

 

[woodguy7]

The RO150 works very well for polishing.  Don't know I would want to do my van with the small RO90 though !

 

[giuseppe antonelli]

Hi to all.

All of you agreed that Rotex 90 is the right choice for my needs.
Well, Saturday, from my dealer, I could see on the field how you are right and I bought it. It's versatility is impressive.
After having seen how it's good for lamellae, just got home I tried it to sand one of two recently bought chairs
that I want to renew.
Rotex 90 perfectly follows the shape of the seat and in a few minutes the seat of the chair is done,
without a grain of dust, as you can see below:

[attachimg=#] [attachimg=#]

Regarding to polishing, sometime I need to refinish old furnitures, so the small size shouldn't be a big cons.

Now, if not asking too much, my last question is about the choice of the grit.

Given the cost of disc packs, I'd start with not more than two grits (that means 2 circular + 2 triangular disc packs).
My dealer suggests: granat 80 for circular pad and granat 100 for triangular pad to remove varnish + granat 150 or 180
for both to get a smooth surface of the wood (or to smooth the varnish which doesn't need to be removed).
What do you suggest?

 

[AlexThePalex]

If you can have only two I'd suggest 80 for the coarse work and 180 for the fine stuff. Forget about 100 and 150.

 

[CDM]

As you can see in the following picture, the only (in some way predictable!) drawback is that I need something else to completely sand the lamellae.

Another alternative would be an abrasive blaster.  A machine shop might have this as an enclosed box with a glass bead sprayer.  You might be able to rent time or have a machinist zip through all your pieces if they fit.  Also, you can probably get an open air system pretty cheaply (US price is around $130).

 

[woodguy7]

Welcome to the FOG Giuseppe, I think you are the first Itallian I have seen on here ?

I can't really help you as I don't have the 90 but I do have the 150.  I always use Brilliant discs, never tried the Granat.

Woodguy.

 

[giuseppe antonelli]

Hi All.

Alex, as you know, 4 100 disc packs cost almost 1/3rd of the RO 90 price,  so, even if my dealer is really helpful
making you try F tools and abrasives, I'm happy to make a choice with the help of your experience:  I'll go with Granat 80/180.

Then, having in a few months replaced my old sanders with 3 F sanders! (by the way: the more I use RO 90 the more I appreciate it ) I'll try to learn more from the forum on other F abrasives .

The abrasive blaster suggested by CDM is a machine which I don't know, so I can't realize how it works between lamellae.
However, if indeed it does not cost much (therefore it's not a Festool,  I guess   [smile]), it deserves a closer look
as I'm thinking to repaint an old bike and other old iron stuff.

Finally I thank Woodguy for your welcome.
If I am the first (or one of the few) italian on FOG, it is probably due to the fact that in Italy Festool
is mainly popular among professional woodworkers for which Internet + English can be a barrier.
My dealer is a very important Festool dealer in Tuscany which sells tools and machines to professionals and
serious hobbiest (as I assume to be!) and I'm curious to ask his opinion on this regard.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Alex, as you know, 4 100 disc packs cost almost 1/3rd of the RO 90 price,  so, even if my dealer is really helpful
making you try F tools and abrasives, I'm happy to make a choice with the help of your experience:  I'll go with Granat 80/180.

I decided not to buy the RO 90 mainly because the abrasives are so crazy expensive. If you look at the price per surface area, the RO 90 paper is 2.4 times as expensive as the same paper in 150 mm discs. I find that unacceptable. I also don't like it that they don't offer them in 10 packs like with all their other types of paper. 

The abrasive blaster suggested by CDM is a machine which I don't know, so I can't realize how it works between lamellae.
However, if indeed it does not cost much (therefore it's not a Festool,  I guess   [smile]), it deserves a closer look
as I'm thinking to repaint an old bike and other old iron stuff.

Don't let yourself be fooled by American prices. Everything is dirt cheap over there. For the same thing you'll pay 2, 3 or perhaps even 4 times as much here in Europe.

But I am surpised to hear this type of machine recommended for wood. We had a machine like that in my father's body shop, called a sandblaster. It is great for removing paint and rust from metal surfaces. But because of the high pressure it will also easily remove the wood itself, after all, wood is a soft material. 

 

[Vindingo]

But I am surpised to hear this type of machine recommended for wood. We had a machine like that in my father's body shop, called a sandblaster. It is great for removing paint and rust from metal surfaces. But because of the high pressure it will also easily remove the wood itself, after all, wood is a soft material. 

I have read that one could use crushed walnut shells as a blasting media and it is a more gentle alternative to sand.  Supposedly it doesn't damage wood, but I have had no first hand experience. 

I have used a sandblaster to etch glass and remove paint a rust from metal, but as you mentioned, I think it would damage the wood. 

 

[giuseppe antonelli]

If you look at the price per surface area, the RO 90 paper is 2.4 times as expensive as the same paper in 150 mm discs. I find that unacceptable. I also don't like it that they don't offer them in 10 packs like with all their other types of paper.  

I kept in mind that inexplicably the same abrasive costs, to us buyers, approx 75E/sqm if you buy 90mm discs and 38E/sqm if you buy 150mm discs and I'm thinking to post this question in "Ask Festool" section, if not already posted. However, the RO 90 was too attractive for my needs and I intend to prepare discs from abrasive tapes at least for coarse work.

But I am surprised to hear this type of machine recommended for wood.  

I have used a sandblaster to etch glass and remove paint a rust from metal, but as you mentioned, I think it would damage the wood.  

I see around several workshop specialized in sandblasting wood windows, doors, furniture,..., so I think it's a good method in some cases but I guess it requires professional tools and environments.