You dont ever want to do this.

[bill-e]

So I was restoring some old brass wall lamps which were in pretty bad shape and I made a mixture of muriatic acid and water to do the initial cleaning.  Well it worked great and the lamps came out fine...that's not the problem.

My wife went in for some surgery so I was doing this and a couple of other projects in between doctors and hospital visits and I left the open jar of solution on my bench for about 4 days.

When I went down there the other day to clean up I was horrified to see every piece of steel on that bench severely rusted.  I'm not talking about a light rust coating, I'm talking about sever pitting.

Unfortunately I had been busy and had a lot of stuff out on the bench in addition to two sets of chisels hanging on the pegboard.  I had my Festool Woodworking drill bit set, both countersink bits, centrotec drivers and a whole bunch of other stuff....all ruined.  The bits actually seem dull and can hardly be forced into cherry so their all going to get tossed.  I cleaned up the chisels and once I put a new edge on them I'm sure they'll cut fine, but the steel is all stained black and the look like I'm one of those guys who doesn't take care of his tools....I know they'll work but it's all in my head I guess

It's kind of heartbreaking knowing that it was my own stupidity that caused it although I never thought twice about the solution causing a problem.

 

[Eli]

Bill-
'stupidity' is, I think a bit too strong. Just sounds like a simple mistake, you had a lot on your mind. Don't be so hard on yourself, use the opportunity to pick out something new. Get yourself something nice, you have our permission

 

[Bob Marino]

Bill,

When I read Muriatic acid, my first thoughts were that you got splashed. Anyhow, just a mistake, we all make them and at least you weren't hurt.

Bob

 

[Brent b]

Bill, I don't really understand what happened, the tools were contaminated just by being in proximity to an open container of muriatic acid?  If so I would never guessed something like this could happen.  I guess I better put lids on my open vats of ammonia, DDT, and dandelion wine.

Hope you're wife's well.

Brent

 

[semenza]

  Better not mix up the vats when you are testing the wine   ;D

Seth

 

[Michael H Hinkel]

I forgot about this until you brought it up, Years ago I used muriatic acid full strength to clean my garage/shop floor. every thing rusted, but thats how I was told to use it at a previous job to spot clean concrete outside.

 

[Eli]

An open vat of dandelion wine will also remove troublesome memory spots. ;D

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Bill, I don't really understand what happened, the tools were contaminated just by being in proximity to an open container of muriatic acid?  If so I would never guessed something like this could happen.  I guess I better put lids on my open vats of ammonia, DDT, and dandelion wine.

Hope you're wife's well.

Brent

Brent,

Muriatic acid is simply an old name for hydrochloric acid, chemical symbol HCl, which is commonly used in steel mills in their "pickling solution" to clean and etch the steel after rolling into strip form prior to plating, and for HD cleaning of masonry, e.g. to remove hardened cement smeared on brick faces where it is not wanted.  As Bill unfortunately found out, muriatic acid is rather volatile and its vapors are severely corrosive to steel and many other metals, and to human nasal and respiratory system linings as well.  Whenever possible, a better first choice is a phosphoric acid cleaner because it is safer to use and less likely to cause such severe corrosion.

Dave R.

 

[woodshopdemos]

Bill,
  While it is ashame to ruin some good tools, I think this time you had a very reasonable excuse. I hope your wife is well.

 

[bill-e]

Bill, I don't really understand what happened, the tools were contaminated just by being in proximity to an open container of muriatic acid?  If so I would never guessed something like this could happen.  I guess I better put lids on my open vats of ammonia, DDT, and dandelion wine.

Hope you're wife's well.

Brent

Brent, a 30% solution sitting in an open jar.  The steel looks like it had been dug up from my back yard.

Luckily I had just T9'd all my cast iron so the big tools only had a few small spots.

Here's an example.  the real dark brown portions are really pitted bad.

 

[bill-e]

Wife is fine, thanks all.  Thyroid cancer.  Had the thyroid removed on the 17th and a couple of lymph nodes for biopsy.  Biopsy came back negative so it was contained.  With this kind of cancer there is a 97% complete cure rate and it seems we'll fall into the 97% and not the unfortunate 3%.  It's been a worrisome month and a half.

 

[clintholeman]

I'm glad you wife is OK!  And leaving the Muriatic acid container open while the rest is going on is pretty understandable.  Having the loss of your tools is a blow, but one you can get over and, in the future, you can share the story with your wife!!  As well as the rest of us.

 

[bill-e]

Clint,  Thanks.  I am glad I can share the story with my wife but I'm sure not going to   The Festool Brad Point bits are 79$ alone

 

[Bill]

We have a lot of chisels here at Japan Woodworker.  Since we are on the Island of Alameda, we are adamant about any rust prevention, and removal.

BullFrog makes a great rust removal product.  It's goopy and smells bad, but it works great!

I have seen scouring powder remove the black from blades.  I like to use the brand "Bar Keepers Friend".

I use a 2" piece of carrot or raw potato to keep the edge from cutting me (that happened once when I ignored advice and used a damp paper towel instead, it sliced right through and into my thumb).

Make sure you rinse with COLD water, as hot water seems to open up the pores of the metal and make the ingredients in the scouring powder react with the steel and it immediately rusts over again.

Bill

 

[Wim]

I have used the destructive power of muriatic acid as a form of revenge. When I was around 14 (late 50's), I was at a junior technical school. I was not the most well-behaving pupil but once the teacher of the metal-shop accused me falsely of some mischief, supported by some treacherous class-mates. So on a Friday, I took a small bottle of the acid (then a normal household product in Holland, now almost impossible to obtain) and left it open somewhere hidden in the class-room, when we left for the weekend. And yes, Monday-morning all steel parts in the room were covered with rust. Except mine, because I had carefully oiled and wrapped my tools and workpieces. I guess the teacher was somewhat suspicious but could not proof a thing. I hope they don't prosecute me for this crime after all these years.
I'm glad all goes well with your wife. Now you can breathe more freely.

 

[bill-e]

Hi Folks,

Here's a weird update.  Pretty much everything I thought I had salvaged, rinsed, removed rust and oiled has rusted again.

Perhaps I should have used something other than water to rinse them off once I removed the rust but I sprayed and rubbed them with WD40 afterwards and then wiped them down and hit them with some T9.

Time to start getting replacements for the rest I guess....really weird that it hadn't stopped.

 

[Eli]

maybe treat them with a base solution to neutralize the acid?

 

[Tinker]

Bill, I am glad your wife is OK.  I can understand how worried you both must have been.

About the damaged tools.  Mix some baking powder and water into a glass, or plastic container and immerse the tools for a half hour or so.  you will actually see boubles as the alkaline baking powder neutralises the acid.  Once the action has stopped, mix a new batch and do the same thing.  after two or three emersions, the acid should be neutralised.

I would guess that the weather was very humid at the time of your "acident"  The moisture in the air provided a good transfer of the acid fumes to anything metal in the room.  It could hapen to every room in a small house, especially with air conditioning>>> even metal parts within the AC equipment.

For all to know who have had no experience with muriatic acid.  It is commonly recommended as a cleaning agent for concrete and oher masonry.  It is extremely caustic and potentially very lethal if used improperly.  the fumes can cause severe burning of nasal passages and eyes, as well as skin and clothing.  Severe damage to even the lungs.  The first time i used it, i had to run for my life to get outside for air as it invaded my lungs.  the mistooks i made were NEVER repeated.  Muriatic acid can not only clean masonry, it can burn or otherwise disintegrate the very product you are trying to preserve.

Somebody mentioned using it to prepare a concrete floor for an epoxy finish.  If you use acid, be sure to have better than normal ventilation and follow directions all the way thru to adequately washing all traces of the acid from the floor before applying a finish of any sort.  If you do not wash (rinse) thoroughly, the acid will keep working deeper into the masonry until the alkaline properties of the masonry completely neutralize the acid. If improperly aplied in uncut, or not cut enough, the acid will actually burn the masonry.

There are many other products that are much safer to use and will do just as good a job as cleaner.  go to a reputable masonry supplier and they can help you out with a good and safe cleaner.

To the man who wants to apply an epoxy finish to his floor, once all preparations have been accomplished to satisfaction and you are ready to apply the epoxy, be sure to ventilate for that operation as well.  you can really get quite dopey from inhaling that stuff also.  Been there Done that.  :-X
Tinker  (30-40 yrs bein' there doin' that)