50 hz inverter anyone?

mntbighker

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So, I have spared myself the misery of checking out the Festool sites outside of the US...up until today. So where do I sign up for the 50hz 240volt inverter equipment?  ;)  Festool UK has a whole mess of stuff we don't get to see here  ???  They have like 6 different circular saws and a table saw that looks it's based around an MFT frame. They also have a CMS and a SCMS and I have only been looking for about 10 minutes. Maybe I better stop NOW!!

--Mark

edit: Oh my, I really want to be the envy of my neighborhood and obtain a TC3000 Tool Center. It has no electronic voltage dependencies and it's cool  8)

TC3000
 
Based upon how their motor controls appear to be designed, I wouldn't be too surprised if 240V 50HZ Festools will work at 60HZ. When electronics is designed for 50HZ, it usually has no problem working with 60HZ because you just end up with less saturation in your magnetic material. (At much higher frequencies, eddy current heating is a concern.)

AC induction motors that are designed to operate at 50HZ will generally run at 60HZ where they will operate at a 20% higher speed. The Festool controls, however, are electronic, and I would expect that the AC input is first rectified to some form of DC before being altered to control the motor speed.

If this is true, then you might be able to get by with 240V at 60HZ. Now, the next question is: How about 220V at 60HZ? (That is what my electric stove and dryer are hooked up to.)
 
CharlesWilson said:
Based upon how their motor controls appear to be designed, I wouldn't be too surprised if 240V 50HZ Festools will work at 60HZ. When electronics is designed for 50HZ, it usually has no problem working with 60HZ because you just end up with less saturation in your magnetic material. (At much higher frequencies, eddy current heating is a concern.)

AC induction motors that are designed to operate at 50HZ will generally run at 60HZ where they will operate at a 20% higher speed. The Festool controls, however, are electronic, and I would expect that the AC input is first rectified to some form of DC before being altered to control the motor speed.

If this is true, then you might be able to get by with 240V at 60HZ. Now, the next question is: How about 220V at 60HZ? (That is what my electric stove and dryer are hooked up to.)

I would be surprised if this worked well with no inverter. You'd trash the tools, IMHO.

Festool UK (and others) sometimes have trade agreements disallowing some of their exports.
 
Inverters can introduce other problems. The inexpensive (consumer) ones introduce high frequency components that can overheat magnetic devices such as induction motors.

As you may have noticed, I didn't recommended the use of 220V 60HZ on a 240V 50HZ Festool. I just 'opined'. Are there any brave souls out there who want to give it a try?

Charles
 
I do have and use an inverter with some of my cordless tools. Specifically, a 5k watt 120>240 inverter that works the other way as well. I only use it to charge up a Dewalt 18v drill battery and a Ridgid 24v li-ion battery. This takes a little less than an hour. The inverter becomes quite warm. I don't think I'd be comfortable using it with any Festools at all. UK 110v (120v?) Festools would work with your current. But as I said, I'd bet they are selective about what is allowed to be exported.
 
OK, so to start with my original question was about mail ordering stuff that does not plug in the wall despite what the subject line I wrote said. I was being flip. I was interested in CMS accessories that presumably would work with our US tools and of course that cool cart. I was hoping people here had tried ordering that stuff from abroad.

Now on the motor topic, it's pretty common (if practical) for companies to design things to be universal voltage despite what they might say on the label. It makes manufacturing easier. Of course I'm not about to "experiment" if I don't have a good reason to. I know there are high quality power conditioning devices available that can probably do this but they cost a fortune. I do wonder if you can a) just plug a Fetsool into any socket and have it work (unlikely) or b) if there is a jumper or something that switches the voltage/freq. like you might find on an air compressor or shop tool (table saw)? Of course you would void the warranty by opening it up to find out and then there is the whole UL/insurance issue.

But there is no reason not to find a way to by non-electric accessories that Festool has chosen not to market here. I can't believe the tool cart is a UL issue. It just turns your CT into a tool cart with a work surface and vac hose mini boom (sweet) in fashionable Festool white/green.

--Mark
 
CharlesWilson said:
If this is true, then you might be able to get by with 240V at 60HZ. Now, the next question is: How about 220V at 60HZ? (That is what my electric stove and dryer are hooked up to.)

For what it's worth, it's just the frequency that would be a problem - The Nominal Voltage of the UK supply was reduced from 240V to 230V several years ago to bring us into line with Europe. The accepted tolerance was +10%/-6%, but as of 2008 it's been increased to +/-10%, meaning that the lower limit is now 207V. So as long as your 'nominal' 220V doesn't fall below an 'actual' 207V, it'd be fine.

I'm in agreement with Charles re the frequency - as the speed controls are electronic, they are not dependent on frequency.

I don't know the answer to this question, but what is the difference between 110V tools produced for the US market, and the 110V tools for the UK site market? The first supply is 60Hz, and the second is 50Hz. I bet the tools are identical, which would mean that the frequency is irelevant...
 
jonny round boy said:
I don't know the answer to this question, but what is the difference between 110V tools produced for the US market, and the 110V tools for the UK site market? The first supply is 60Hz, and the second is 50Hz. I bet the tools are identical, which would mean that the frequency is irrelevant...
Of course the only way you would ever prove that is to see the service part catalog and verify the same numbers on the guts :-)
 
jonny round boy said:
I don't know the answer to this question, but what is the difference between 110V tools produced for the US market, and the 110V tools for the UK site market? The first supply is 60Hz, and the second is 50Hz. I bet the tools are identical, which would mean that the frequency is irelevant...

TS55 Parts Diagram

Have a look.  The motor's parts are identical, the line/mains cord and socket are not.  The only question marks are parts #46 and 47.  I believe 46 is the electronic control board.  47 is unique to the US version, and I think it's a pair of jumpers. 

One reason for a control board difference--we in North America don't get the B for braked versions.  Hey, what if the board was the same, and those #47 jumpers just bypassed the braking circuitry for the US version?  Hmm...

Ned

 
Overhere on the continent as the UK-people say, the voltage used to be 220V AC 50 Hz and was brought to 230V AC 50 Hz just to meet the 240 V in the UK. As far as my knowledge goes, these motor types will even work on DC.
 
if you buy a festool from the uk and use it here in the us with a 3rd party inverter,what happens to the warranty?
do you really think that festool is going to honor it ?
 
This is an interesting thread because I'm running US gear in the UK.

The MFT seems to work fine.  ;)

I went to a Woodcraft to make sure I was going to pick up all the right parts and accesories. When I got there I found that they'd run out of TS55 saws, but I could have a TS75. So, the wife said I could spend the extra cash as we'd driven 2.5 hours to get to the shop, and I got the TS75 with the CT Mini.

I was annoyed to find that the TS75 can draw more current than the CT Mini is supposed to supply. For such a well built and thought out range of tools, i was annoyed that Festool don't give you any warnings about the issue of the current limitation. Not even a note in the catalog.  :(  Okay, I should have checked, but I just a note would have helped.

Anyway. I fitted a UK 110v plug, got a transformer, and i'm running the extractor/saw on 110v/50hz. The transformer is rated at 3.3KVA for a 60% duty cycle, and about 1.6KVA continuous. 

I dial down the speed controllers on both items, and although I understand that the saw could theoretically draw lots of current at lower revs, I'm not cutting oak beams like in the TS75 video on the Festoolusa website.

I've noticed a couple of things I've factored in to my considerations, I'd be interested in knowing what other people think of these deductions.

Firstly, if an appliance wants to use 1500 watts of power, a voltage drop might result in the appliance drawing more current. This worried me when thinking about running 120v tools at 110v. Would the tool draw even more current than on the label?

Secondly, I saw a Japanese tool that showed a lower current demand when the frequency of the supply voltage dropped. This made me think of an issue is audio test frequencies that have to be reduced in volume as the frequency goes up. This made me think that 50hz might be doing me a favor.

The tools are working well, I'll add to this thread if I run into trouble.

Matt

 
I am new here, so I see this old thread, only now.

From personal experience, all my Festools work 100% here in Canada, even though they are all rated 230V 50Hz, purchased in South Africa, same as european spec I believe.

I have a 230V 20A outlet in my garage, and plug straight in. The Festool electronics seem to be ok with the 60Hz, but not all tools are like that. Along with my Festools, I also brought a Bosch GSB20-2RET hammer action drill. It is a good drill, with variable speed, and torque control. For some reason this drill does not work here, motor makes some zz zz sounds, but no turning.

Incidentally, before immigrating to Canada, I contacted Festool USA about the warranty, they said no problem, warranty is still honoured,
 
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