700 sq foot deck sanding/finishing project

suds

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Aug 25, 2008
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I have a cedar/redwood deck that needs to be sanded down and restained.  I'm using my Rotrex FEQ 150 and it seems to work ok but this may take some time.  The deck gets the full brunt of weather, snow-100 degree summer.  The guys who refinished it about 6 years ago used a Bear stain process from HD which lasted 1 year and started fading and literally turned to a powder substance.  There was a slight tint to the stain and they etched it again with another HD Bear process and then restained it and it lasted two years and then faded again. I'm wondering what some of you have used with decks that can withstand those conditions.  I like a lighter stain not a dark one.  Thanks for any help.
 
You might also want t9 check out the Sikkens line.  Pay attention to your conditions while searching out information.  Their products have been spec'd on multi-million dollar yachts for decades, so there is credibility.

Peter
 
Peter Halle said:
You might also want t9 check out the Sikkens line.  Pay attention to your conditions while searching out information.  Their products have been spec'd on multi-million dollar yachts for decades, so there is credibility.

Peter

another vote for Sikkens.  I've spent some time freshening up this place with Sikkens.  My experience has been pretty good with it.  I think you'll still find yourself refinishing every 5-7 years, a decade if you're lucky.

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Ive had great results with the RO150 followed by Sikkens Dek Finish. I know my paint supplier sells a ton of the stuff in CT. Try one pass with a real low grit and a second pass to clean up the scratch marks. Dont over sand or the product wont stick, Eric
 
DEK won't work on a already installed deck, at least not like the manufacturer wants.  Sikkens DEK calls for a first coat on all 6 surfaces, then a top coat on exposed.  It is basically a souped up high solid film builder with lots of UV protection.  So if you only coat the top and water works under it you have to strip it back to wood.  It is also very slippery, but makes an amazing finish for handrails. 

For decks I use Sikkens SRD with great results.  Here in Colorado most decks need re-coating every two years if you want to stay on top of it and not have to strip the finish.  Clean, wipe on, then wait 30 min and wipe off excess or you get shiny sticky patches.  I recommend going as dark as you can stand as the darker the finish is the better UV blocking it has.

As for sanding 700 sqft with a Rotex, that is going to give you carpel tunnel or a bad back in no time.  Do yourself a favor and rent a orbital pad sander with some 80 grit and do it in style, in about a tenth of the time.
 
Kevin, i think i thought i was supposed to use Dek bc of the name and the guys at the paint store sent me home with SRD. I just do as im told over there. Are those sanders hard to handle over deckboards? Eric
 
We sand decks on a pretty regular basis in my company's maintenance program.

From a sanding standpoint, decks are nothing like floors. They are not flat, they always have cupping. Best results are to sand one course at a time. With upright sanders spanning 2-3 courses, there is alot of skippage due to the irregularity of the surface, which leads to working over areas and creating variation. Its actually easier to have a sander that is sized to the courses. Just wear kneepads. It goes pretty quick with Granat. Believe me, we have run out of Granat on jobs and subbed brilliant or rubin and it is not nearly as effective on general grime and weathered gunk removal.

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Also worth noting that the dust extraction eliminates most of the would be cloudiness in the wood grain. I havent used an upright that had comparable extraction, or that didnt leave me wanting to float with an orbital afterwords.

On finish, Sikkens can fail miserably and can be a stripping nightmare. I have stripped many failed Sikkens coatings and it has to be done chemically, and it really sucks. Sikkens coatings can hold up if maintained annually, as they are on boats. But the thing to remember about boat finishes, is that the boats arent sitting out in harsh weather through 4 seasons typically, dealing with snow and ice melt and sun bakeage simltaneously. Maintenance on Sikkens coatings (at least the classic film formers) is not as easy as with a penetrating marine oil.

To the original poster, the key to your situation is to make sure that you remove all of the Behr mess that has been made. Those are suckass coatings because they fail, but are also difficult to eliminate. Sanding a deck that size should take about 10 man hours with Granat at 80 g.

Here is a picture of the deck I showed being sanded in my previous post, finished with Marine Grade Penofin. The deck shown is ipe. Cedar is actually easier to sand and takes penetrating oil deeply. There is no way I would put a film former on top of cedar.

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WOW Scott.  I showed my wife the picture of the deck you finished and that's exactly what she wants.  I use one of those roll around mechanics stools from Griot's garage so I don't have much strain on my back and the wheels are big enough that they don't cause marks. 
When the deck dries is there still that sheen on the wood (or is that picture of a dry deck)?  How often would I need to reinstall the Penofin and would it need resanding down to bare wood each time? Where would a guy get the Granat pads?  Thanks for the pics, it really helped.
 
Suds

This picture was taken immediately after the oil was applied and wiped, so it has a slight shine to it. It is designed to slowly fade over time, and never peel or chalk. It is such an easy application, we have some clients that we do twice a year (spring/fall) if they want the deck to look perpetually new and fresh. In your case, I would sand it and oil it now, then just give it a maintenance coat of oil in about October. Check it in the spring and it should not need sanding again. The key is not to overapply the oil. It is designed to go IN the wood, not to build ON the wood. Thats the biggest mistake people make with Penofin, and it can turn into a mess. So, apply liberally, let sit for 15 minutes, and wipe out vigorously. You can run a few courses at a time this way. Cedar takes it really nice, better than ipe actually.

Any festool dealer should have Granat. If you can't find it locally, check www.festoolproducts.com
 
Thanks so much for the info Scott.  Would you use the Marine Grade or is there a better choice of the different Penofin products?
 
Scott, I have really got a lot out of your posts here and have come to respect your opinions greatly. VT is a tough place on coatings. Let me guess thats someones second home? Eric
 
I agree that finishing up with a orbital is a good way to go, but starting with a pad sander will save a lot of hours.  It will not leave as many orbital swirls  as a Rotex at low grit, so you can go over everything lightly with 120 and be ready for stain.  Softwood decks need at least 120 to give a good appearance.  10 hours on 700 sqft is optimistic in my estimation.  Anyways the railing will most likely take twice that long so you will have plenty of time on the knees.  Having spent weeks of my life refinishing decks I am all about finding ways to make it easier.  

Scott, you are talking about DEK when referring to Sikkens right?  DEK is not recommended by Sikkens for refinishing as boards need to be encapsulated (finished 6 sides) before installation, and is not recommended for deck floors anyways by most due to its slipperiness. Sikkens SRD is a penetrating oil similar to Penofin or Messmers, but higher in solids.  It is harder to apply, but gives a longer lasting coating and does not need to be stripped.  It's all about prep in my experience.

Sikkens DEK on Cedar handrails is hard to beat short of an Epoxy coating.  As long as it is maintained and was properly installed it will look like new for years.  Here in Colorado at 8k feet the sun is the biggest enemy, so you need to protect thin wood from drying or it splinters and splits.  DEK does that amazingly well, where penetrating oils on balusters will burn off and leave the surface hungry in a matter of months.
 
suds said:
Thanks so much for the info Scott.  Would you use the Marine Grade or is there a better choice of the different Penofin products?

Your welcome, and thank you for the kind words.

Marine Grade only.
 
ericbuggeln said:
Scott, I have really got a lot out of your posts here and have come to respect your opinions greatly. VT is a tough place on coatings. Let me guess thats someones second home? Eric

Eric

Thank you. Yes, VT is a tough place for coatings. We service the lake and mountain regions so we see all the worst exposures. This one is a year round home, but alot of our clients are second home owners.
 
Kevin Stricker said:
I agree that finishing up with a orbital is a good way to go, but starting with a pad sander will save a lot of hours.  It will not leave as many orbital swirls  as a Rotex at low grit, so you can go over everything lightly with 120 and be ready for stain.  Softwood decks need at least 120 to give a good appearance.  10 hours on 700 sqft is optimistic in my estimation.  Anyways the railing will most likely take twice that long so you will have plenty of time on the knees.  Having spent weeks of my life refinishing decks I am all about finding ways to make it easier.  

Scott, you are talking about DEK when referring to Sikkens right?  DEK is not recommended by Sikkens for refinishing as boards need to be encapsulated (finished 6 sides) before installation, and is not recommended for deck floors anyways by most due to its slipperiness. Sikkens SRD is a penetrating oil similar to Penofin or Messmers, but higher in solids.  It is harder to apply, but gives a longer lasting coating and does not need to be stripped.  It's all about prep in my experience.

Sikkens DEK on Cedar handrails is hard to beat short of an Epoxy coating.  As long as it is maintained and was properly installed it will look like new for years.  Here in Colorado at 8k feet the sun is the biggest enemy, so you need to protect thin wood from drying or it splinters and splits.  DEK does that amazingly well, where penetrating oils on balusters will burn off and leave the surface hungry in a matter of months.

Kevin

Any Sikkens coating that forms a film is a big red flag for me. Too many strip jobs in my history and it sucks. I do like the SRD, that is a nice coating, but the brand as a whole leaves me a little queezy.

We go right straight for Epiphanes marine coatings for rails. These are the finished rails that go with the deck I posted above.

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