About The Tool Contests

[Fred West]

John, that is truly thoughtful and I am sure that the caring part you are showing by leaving a little spot for her bike will build you many browny points.  : If this all works for you please let me and the rest of the board know about it as I can only think that your wife must be a mail-order non English speaking woman to actually tolerate this.  Fred

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Everyone,
For those of you concerned about fairness, let me emphasize again that this is meant to be a friendly thing.
It's meant to inspire people to try new techniques...
A way to show you what you can do with these tools...
A way to get people to put more description and more photos in their project postings.

In my mind, the contest is meant to be a natural extension of the existing projects area, just adding a new dimension to members' efforts there.  The contest is no more unfair than the "Member Projects" board itself.

I've edited the contest description in the first post of this discussion to reflect some additional details about the nature of the contest.

I've given a lot of thought to the issue of judges versus polls, and I have decided against polls (they tend to get too few responses).  I like the idea of judges, but I don't want to exclude the general forum community from the decision.  So, here's what I came up with: each month, we'll start a new discussion in the "Tool Contests" area, where members can say what their favorite project is, and why it's their favorite.  You can name more than one.  The point is to offer your views about what makes a great project, and also what makes a great forum post about a project.  The judge(s) will take into consideration everything members are saying, then, at the end of the month, announce a winner.

Matthew

 

[Brice Burrell]

Good idea, Matthew, I knew you would come up with something that everyone can live with (if people don't like this idea, thay aren't going to like anything we come up with).

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Brice,
Thanks for the feedback!  I've been trying to take into account what people are saying in this discussion.  A hybrid system of judging and open discussion seems to be the best solution.  It will allow people to weigh in, and involve the community, but also be decisive!

A couple of other quick points:

• Since this contest will run every month, there are opportunities for many people to win.
• In the contest description in the first post of this discussion, I added a point for members who do not wish to enter their projects in the contest.

Matthew

 

[mhch]

One still pending point to solve is to find a way for international members to participate,
else they may refrain themselves to submit until rules are changed.

for instance, they can be nominated best project of the month, and they are allowed
to choose what to do with the prize (auction/money to the FOG, auction/money into
the winner pockets, donate to a school, donate to a US member,  forward to next month winner,
etc ... lots of possibilities)

This until Festool rest of the world is convinced to participate ... 

 

[The Dude]

Last night I had thought whilst talking to another FOG member on the phone.  That pertains to Schools.  Here in Lincoln, Lincoln East High School entered a contest at the IWF in Atlanta.  They won an ETS 125 and a midi.  Since there are members all over the country, and there was a thread some time ago regarding "...high school shop..."  Let me throw that into the mix.  I think FOG members COULD poll something like that; at least the 20-25% that post regularly.  That would be a pretty good sample size.  FJ would love to donate a TS 55 (Safety in cutting panels) to get rid of those Radial arm saws.

T

 

[Matthew Schenker]

One still pending point to solve is to find a way for international members to participate,
else they may refrain themselves to submit until rules are changed.

for instance, they can be nominated best project of the month, and they are allowed
to choose what to do with the prize (auction/money to the FOG, auction/money into
the winner pockets, donate to a school, donate to a US member,  forward to next month winner,
etc ... lots of possibilities)

This until Festool rest of the world is convinced to participate ... 

I agree that international participation is great, and this forum has terrific members from all over the world.  I would love nothing more than to have international Festool branches getting involved in this forum and supporting members from their region.

Part of my motivation for the International Representation poll is to have some numbers to support my call for more Festool branches to become active in the forum.  To date, only about 8% of our members have voted in the poll.

I've contacted Festool branches around the world asking them to get involved in the forum, but to date only Festool USA has answered my calls.  If anyone has ideas about how to get other Festool branches to participate, I'm all for it!

Matthew

 

[semenza]

Everyone,
For those of you concerned about fairness, let me emphasize again that this is meant to be a friendly thing.
It's meant to inspire people to try new techniques...
A way to show you what you can do with these tools...
A way to get people to put more description and more photos in their project postings.

In my mind, the contest is meant to be a natural extension of the existing projects area, just adding a new dimension to members' efforts there.  The contest is no more unfair than the "Member Projects" board itself.

I've edited the contest description in the first post of this discussion to reflect some additional details about the nature of the contest.

I've given a lot of thought to the issue of judges versus polls, and I have decided against polls (they tend to get too few responses).  I like the idea of judges, but I don't want to exclude the general forum community from the decision.  So, here's what I came up with: each month, we'll start a new discussion in the "Tool Contests" area, where members can say what their favorite project is, and why it's their favorite.  You can name more than one.  The point is to offer your views about what makes a great project, and also what makes a great forum post about a project.  The judge(s) will take into consideration everything members are saying, then, at the end of the month, announce a winner.

Matthew

Matthew,

        I have been on the fence about wether or not this is a good idea or will work out well.  I definitely like the idea (actually I always have liked the idea), and I think you are beginning to get this dialed in so that it will work.

Seth

                  FIVE

 

[nickao]

I just  saw an entry by elji, but don't the entries have to show the projects being made, not just the final pics? Don't the projects have to be made by one person and not a crew. I am confused. I know I have not been in this thread awhile, but just seeing the final project and not progress pics leaves the door wide open for a lot of negative things.

Heck I can submit final pics of over 100 completed projects. I am not going to harp on fairness, but anyone really want to go against final pics in a professional portfolio?

Don't contest entry's have to show the actual making of the project?

Straighten me out, I may have missed something.  If progress pics and getting from point A to B is not mandatory, I fail to see the point of this contest at all.

Nickao

 

[Matthew Schenker]

I just  an sntry by elji, but dont the entries have to show the projects being made, not just the final pics? Don't the projects have to be made by one person and not a crew. I am confused. I know I have not been in this thread awhile, but just seeing the final project and not progress pics leaves the door wide open for a lot of negative things.

Don't contest entry's have to show the actual making of the project?

Eiji F chose to call his recent post "Eiji's Contest Entry," but anything posted in the "Member Projects" board is automatically entered in the contest.  Members can post any project they want in that section, and can include any details they want.  Whether it wins the contest or not...who knows?
Matthew

 

[nickao]

A project is that a "project" not a final pictures. I guess I must have missed his making of the project in other threads. I have not read through them all, only the newer threads.

I envisioned pics of the projects in stages showing the Festools being used in the pics.  Pictures of the final project show no details at all. I think that is the difference between a regular woodworking forum and this.

The Festool techniques I thought were an integral part of the premise of the contest. I guess I did not read the contest rules correctly.

 

[Mirko]

Nickao,
You know, when you do this stuff for a living its hard to find the time to stop and take pictures. You usually get caught up in the project and are busy working.

Mirko

 

[nickao]

Yes, I do it for a living and I do not see how you can NOT find the time to take pictures. Before my house fire I had pics of every deck, gazebo, house I worked on. Every project that I did I took pics from 1989 on. I lost 13 years of pics in the house fire. The pictures is what got me work in the future.

Knowing about this contest now, ahead of time, I think pictures can be taken as you go. I think that a contest it that, a contest and the progress pic should be mandatory. If people are  going to submit work that they are doing on a 40 or more an hour a week job - that is totally unfair to the guys that work 40 or more hours sitting behind a desk. The least a tradesman can do is take 30 seconds to snap some pictures.

If pictures are not mandatory of Festools techniques being SHOWN in the project submission I suggest at least two categories. People that do it for a living and people that don't. I know there is one prize I really don't care.

I do not think making progress pics showing the Festools in action is a negative in anyway. Isn't that the point off this contest? Isn't that why Festool is involved, for Festools. Not the actual project, but how Festools are used in making the project should be the point here. If anyone has a problem taking a 5 sec picture showing the festool and how it is used there is something fishy going on.

Now I am going to work and use my Festools.

Nickao

 

[Fred West]

Nick, I very much agree with you on the need for ongoing pictures as a project is being built. My guess is that we will also have many people submitting projects that are already done with their Festools and may not have progress shots. So the upshot, IMHO, is that we are going to have a combination of both ongoing and just final pics.

Timmy, I love the idea of getting local high schools involved either as receipients of a prize or submitting projects as well. That would be a great way to get our younger generation involved and excited. Just seems like maybe a logistic nightmare. I think more input is needed, eh?  Fred

 

[semenza]

Hi,

    I think that having everything in the Member Projects Area  automatically entered will make it more difficult to discuss the entries. Also does this mean that people can have as many entries as they want?   There may even be people that have posted projects that do not want them entered for what ever reason.  I think there should be a seperate board / area just for contest entries. And that people wanting to enter should start a thread on that board for there entry. If they want to enter something that they have already posted, cut and paste makes it easy to repost.  I think that this would really help organise this as a contest.

Seth

           TWO

 

[nickao]

Then I will just say it. How do we know Festools were used in the project.

Before anyone takes offense let me tell you I received horrible emails form  people on THIS  forum( I now understand why people do not want their emails in their profiles).So don't go telling me everyone here is perfect. If I can get emails  like that making me never want to post, I know there are people here that are going point blank lie and cheat.

I am sorry, its how I feel and the last weekend has just shown me that this is a forum, like any other forum. People will take every inch and there are always some less desirable people on the forum. Obviously to more than one person I am  one of them.

If you do not have pics of the Festools in action they should not be allowed. Doesn't this make the fairest playing field. And yes a lot of old projects would not be able to go in. I say so what.

Nickao

 

[Matthew Schenker]

    I think that having everything in the Member Projects Area  automatically entered will make it more difficult to discuss the entries. Also does this mean that people can have as many entries as they want?  There may even be people that have posted projects that do not want them entered for what ever reason.  I think there should be a seperate board / area just for contest entries. And that people wanting to enter should start a thread on that board for there entry. If they want to enter something that they have already posted, cut and paste makes it easy to repost.  I think that this would really help organise this as a contest.

Keeping everything in the "Member Projects" board is a way of letting the forum continue as normal, without changing things just for the contest.  Just keep posting your projects to the projects board, and it will be in the contest.  That keeps things simple.  Asking people to post their projects in the "Member Projects" board, then re-post it in the contest area, I think, adds complications.

If there are members who don't want their projects entered in the contest (as Ned Young has stated) they can simply say so.  I've added this to the description of the contest in the first post of this discussion.

Matthew

 

[Matthew Schenker]

If you do not have pics of the Festools in action they should not be allowed. Doesn't this make the fairest playing field. And yes a lot of old projects would not be able to go in. I say so what.

Again, people are free to post their projects any way they want in the "Member Projects" section, with or without details.  The "Member Projects" board will continue just as it always has.  The way I'm setting this up, you are not officially "entering" the contest.  You're just posting projects as you always have.  If your project also has the details required to win the contest, well, even better!  But you don't have to change anything if you don't want to.
Matthew

 

[greg mann]

While many, many posts have expressed concerns regarding fairness, logistics, existing versus new projects, etc.... I think there is merit to doing this. This is a pretty eclectic group and the first impulse has been to think about what could go wrong and how might it hurt the group. I agree with the comment Jesse made about the Henderson trip. We worry too much. Perhaps it is our collective nature. Who knows. Let's do it, in whatever way Matthew chooses. If it does not work out we will recognize that and either modify our approach or do away with it altogether and we will most likely be no worse for it.

The concept of broadening the contest or having a category for school projects and/or parent/child projects is laudible as well. I think this may be a nice way of increasing the awareness of these fine tools that have brought us all together.

Matthew, since I personally have spent most of my retirement money on Festools and there is not much incentive for me to participate in the upcoming contests I would like to volunteer as a judge if you are looking for folks to fulfill that role. At any rate, I expect my skills as a judge are probably greater than my skills as a woodworker.  :

Just an added thought: I really believed I was spent out about 2 or 3 years ago; what was left to buy? Let's see, since then we have the Domino, TS75, Kapex, MK700, MFT3, OF2200.....Oh, well, maybe I'll have to enter after all.  ;D ;D :

 

[Matthew Schenker]

The concept of broadening the contest or having a category for school projects and/or parent/child projects is laudible as well. I think this may be a nice way of increasing the awareness of these fine tools that have brought us all together.

Any projects posted in the "Member Projects" board will be entered automatically, so right now there should not be a need to create special categories.  In the future, I might be able to put together additional contests for specific types of projects.  But for now, let's just say that any project posted in the "Member Project" board is entered.

Matthew, since I personally have spent most of my retirement money on Festools and there is not much incentive for me to participate in the upcoming contests I would like to volunteer as a judge if you are looking for folks to fulfill that role. At any rate, I expect my skills as a judge are probably greater than my skills as a woodworker.  :

Thanks Greg.  Sounds like it's you, jonny, and me.  Anyone else want to be a judge?

Matthew