About The Tool Contests

Forrest I have access to a couple of big (about 7') Festool banners. Nice ones. They cost around a 100.00.. I may be able to donate a few to people for overseas to win if that interests you. Plus I have a ton of extra packs of sandpaper that will work with the tools there that I may be willing to contribute also.

Nickao

I will ignore the dig about me typing so much, you do not have to read it. If no one plays devils advocate how the heck do you come to a valid consensus. I will stop posting in this thread it seems I am aggravating to some people.
 
Everyone,
I just realized a technicality about the way to handle the deadlines for contest submissions.  I have edited the section, "How a Winner is Chosen."
Matthew
 
I predict a lot of new topics will be appearing in the Member Projects section starting towards the end of next week.

 
I think I'm starting to feel uneasy about this. So far the FOG has been a way to
share ideas, tips, ask questions, etc ... but the idea of a competition seems
to break the openness of it and it has a marketing smell behind it.
I would rather leave it to the Festool newsletter instead of seeing it in the FOG.

I would rather prefer a random drawing among the active (i.e. posting) members
of the month, or something like that, with relativelt small prizes, or even a
poll of a random selection of members to designate who they think
contributed the most during a period. But definitely not something you
submit for.

I'm not sure I made myself clear ?

Hope I don't hurt anyone,  May be it is my european, or even my own personal
profile - I never liked competition, even if I can be quite good at it in some domains.
But of course, this is nothing else than my personal opinion and I respect the one
of others.

 
If there is any prize out of Festool, it should first go to Matthew for all the effort
done so far, since this has been the most significant contribution to the forum,
make it to exist.

Now, further to my previous post:  I don't think he did it with a competition purpose  ;) ;) :D :D

 
nickao said:
Forrest I have access to a couple of big (about 7') Festool banners. Nice ones. They cost around a 100.00.. I may be able to donate a few to people for overseas to win if that interests you. Plus I have a ton of extra packs of sandpaper that will work with the tools there that I may be willing to contribute also.
Click to expand...

Thank you - that's very generous of you. I'm not a competition sort of person, but as Matthew pointed out, there are quite a lot of members outside the USA and Canada, and something like sandpaper is almost like a universal currency!

Forrest

 
I like the idea of competition and then again i dont.
I like it because it is a nice way to add some (extra) dynamics to the forum but i dont like it because of the prize involved.
A prize like a 700 router is maybe a bit much for a "fun" competition.

Nickao has a point when he says that people may not post so freely if they feel that their idea or project maybe a potential winner.
(BTW Nickao, offering your own sandpaper and other stuff  as prizes for non US or Canadian members shows that you are a great person)

Judging who wins something like this on the net maybe a little tricky also. What if one guy has better pics than the other? What if one guy has better photoshop skills than the other. What will be the exact criteria that define a winner and who will be the judges. etc etc

Matthew i think it is a good initiative (free tools are always nice ;D) as long as it does not divert from the friendly nature and willingness to share that this forum is about.
 
johne said:
I like the idea of competition and then again i dont.
I like it because it is a nice way to add some (extra) dynamics to the forum but i dont like it because of the prize involved.
A prize like a 700 router is maybe a bit much for a "fun" competition.

Nickao has a point when he says that people may not post so freely if they feel that their idea or project maybe a potential winner.
(BTW Nickao, offering your own sandpaper and other stuff  as prizes for non US or Canadian members shows that you are a great person)

Judging who wins something like this on the net maybe a little tricky also. What if one guy has better pics than the other? What if one guy has better photoshop skills than the other. What will be the exact criteria that define a winner and who will be the judges. etc etc

Matthew i think it is a good initiative (free tools are always nice ;D) as long as it does not divert from the friendly nature and willingness to share that this forum is about.
Click to expand...

Very well said and much better than what I tried to express.
 
Thankyou Festool USA!  I am sure that this will be very popular with our members.

And, in particular, I thank you for making Canadian members eligible.
 
So far I can see both sides of this issue.  My first Festools were the ES125 sander and CT22 vacuum.  How creative could I be moving the sander across the surface of the wood???  This may exclude many beginning woodworkers and members that may not have extra money (after bills) to buy materials for projects.

On the other hand, this would be a good way for some members to show off their skills.  And maybe it would be better to reward those who use the tools to build outstanding projects rather than a random drawing.  And there would be fewer entries per month (compared to all posting members), so the odd of winning would be better.

Tom.
 
As a completely novice woodworker I also think beginners would be at a handicap. So far the height of my Festool creativity is getting everything assembled and working while starring at those "brilliant" manuals :D.  But... Even if the prizes do go to the more advanced or popular posters I think that would be just great. I doubt any of these advanced members would earn minimum wage if they won a tool  compared to the amount of time they put into their post. Just my two cents. Cheers, Bill
 
Matthew,

I agree with Nickao's comments identifying many issues and problems for consideration.  He identified a lot of good issues to be concerned with.

Absent a random drawing in which all mwmbers who submit a written description of their project along with a photo (which I cannot do at present), there is a huge two-fold problem: 1) is setting the criteria to be used to select a winner and 2) is judging which submission best met those criteria.  How do you assign / scale values to creativity, if that is among the criteria?  Since the focus appears to be on NEW ways to use Festool products, judging the relative amount of creativity seems to be key.

Have you considered how Fine Woodworking judges reader tips and awards their prizes?  Do they use a jury of their professional woodworkers who regularly contribute articles to their magazine?  Should FOG select a jury of professionals to act as judges?  Would professionals who participate in FOG be willing to act as judges?  I note the value of the FW prizes is considerably lower than any new Festool product.

I also agree with Nickao's concern that a prize might cause people to hold back until they can present their ideas in a form that makes them eligible to win a new Festool, turing cooperation and sharing into competition and a focus on self.  I have seen this operate in the business world many times, where people hold back their ideas until they leave their present employment to go into business for themselves or to impress their new employer.  The bigger the prize, the more likely people are to focus on what can become personal gain.

It might be possible to create a list of criteria including creativity, usefulness, etc. and through voting of a jury (of professionals or all FOG members) assign numeric values to each criteria, and the winner would be the entry with the highest composite score.  Some ideas will be extremely creative, but perhaps not very useful to many others on FOG.  Car and Driver Magazine uses this approach when judging cars included in a comparison test to arrive at a final ranking of the cars.  Note that different criteria may be assigned different weights in determing their contribution to the the overall score.

Dave R.
 
Ok, some folks have expressed some discomfort with the planned competition. However considering the population here I suspect that we have simply been given (generously, in my opinion) an opportunity to recognise accomplishment at any level by one of our members each month.

I suspect that what will actually happen is that any member at whatever his skill level now has the same chance of gaining recognition here as he always had, the diferrence being that now we can vote to give that deserving individual a free tool (and a good one judging by the first priaze offered).

Personally, i'm more likely to vote for someone who wrote, "New to Festools and carpentry in general and I made this slightly out of true shelf, but am so proud of it I posted a pictuyre anyway" than for someone who uses Festools for a living. I think I wouldn't be alone as proved by the general helpfull, supportive environment here on this forum.

My point being, I guess that we don't need to endlessly discuss some system for making the competition foolproof (or proof against comercialism or whatever) what's going to make it fair is US, the voting membership, and I have learned to have a lot of respect and faith in you guys.
 
  Adding a high level of formality to this contest will take away from some the fun. This contest isn't about giving a tools to just anyone, its about challenging members to come up with creative and exciting projects (threads). In the end everyone on FOG wins from the shared information the contest will bring to the site. I'd be more likely to vote for someone that put forth a real effort, their time and energy to share information over a project that was stunning but added very little to the forum. I'd also like to see members: talk about the design, document the building process, add a little "how to" info, you know give the other members something great to read. I've taken a great deal of my time to try to create informative thread on this site, there is no reason the rest of you guys can't do it too. So, put on your thinking caps, get your camera out, then, get into the shop and get to work.
 
I see "pluses" and "minuses" on this with the plus side far outweighing the negative.

On the plus side:
  -- there is an incentive to document work, photograph techniques, etc and get it published, rather that taking the attitude of "I suppose I'll get around to that someday"
  -- it will encourage creativity
  -- it will be a learning experience for the person doing the project and for all of us looking at the results
  -- it will "raise the bar" for the skill set we all possess
  -- some nice prices will be awarded
Negatives
  -- impromptu sharing of ideas will be reduced.  Instead of posting an idea immediately, it will be embedded with a project or submission at a much later date.
  -- some will hesitate to contribute for fear their work will never win and is not worthy of contest consideration
  -- some individuals do like competitive events when it comes to their work

DO IT!
 
RDMuller, welcome to the FOG and what a well written first post.  :) I am all for competition and I love the idea of the MFK 700 except for the part of having already prepaid for it.  :( I am an adequate woodworker at best and I believe what I lack the least is creativity unless it comes to seeing what is wrong and then fixing something. For some reason that has always been a strength. So, a contest like this is one that I will probably never win except in one way and I think that it is the most important.

I will enter each time and try my hardest and what will happen is that I will get better and I will enjoy myself. Very hard to beat those results. Fred
 
Fred West said:
..........I will enter each time and try my hardest and what will happen is that I will get better and I will enjoy myself. Very hard to beat those results. Fred
Click to expand...

Fred, great attitude, I think that is what Matthew had in mind when he put together this contest.
 
I am with you Fred, I will give it my best, and have a little fun doing it, I get to use my tools a couple of times a month, and I will just document when I do. ;D
 
Everyone,
As Brice, Fred, and others have noted, this contest is meant to be fun and friendly, a way to push members to not only create something but also photograph it so others can see it and learn from it.  Being chosen by your peers on the forum is just a bonus.

I've been thinking about some of nickao's comments, specifically the point that people might withhold their projects if they know there's a contest.  I'm not sure I agree, but just in case I came up with a solution.  Instead of having monthly deadlines, I'll make it so that all projects ever posted in the "Projects" boards are eligible at any time.  Of course, if your project wins it is no longer eligible, but other than that, any project that meets the requirements can win.  Another point: people can revise their projects.  That way, if by chance someone is withholding a project for some reason, he or she can post it, then edit the post at a later date when it is "ready" and the project will be eligible.

I like this idea for a few reasons:
  • Your project is automatically entered for as long as the contest program runs
  • Members are encouraged to post their ideas sooner rather than later
  • Members with great projects do not lose out just because of the month they happen to post in
  • It's easier from an administrative point of view, since I just need to add the newest entries to the poll

I've edited the proposed rules (at the start of this discussion) to reflect this change.

Matthew
 
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