About to buy into Festool system, need advice please

[Mrhume]

Hello everyone,
this is my first post here.  I am about to buy into the Festool system - something I've been considering for years, but could never quite justify, until now.  Very excited!

I need advice on what to get.  Here's my task:

- Process 4x8 sheets of bamboo into pieces that are precisely 246mm x 89mm.
- Since these blanks will have work done on them by a CNC machine, the most important thing is that they are all exactly the same size. 
- The bamboo plywood is absurdly expensive so I need to waste as little as possible (I've got a cutting plan for this, but any suggestions are welcome).
- The blanks will also have two channels routed across their tops.  I can do this on the CNC, but it would be much faster to use power tools, so any suggestions will help.

I'm thinking of getting:
TS55 REQ
MFT
Parallel guide system
CT MIDI

Anything else I should consider?  Will this do the job?  I'm doing this in out of a tiny space in Brooklyn, so I've no room for a table saw, alas.

Thank you all SO much for your help!

Here's a CAD drawing of what the blanks have to look like before being CNC'd:
[attachthumb=1]

 

[Birdhunter]

I responded once but had a power failure just as I hit the "Post" button. So, if you see two posts from me, that's why.

Anyway, I like to breakdown plywood on sawhorses using a TS55 and guide rail leaving the pieces slightly larger than the finished size. I then move the pieces to the MFT and trim using the TS55 and rail. Wrestling 4X8 sheets on an MFT or table saw is difficult for me.

I true the rail using Qwas dogs and a large framing square from Woodpeckers. I've been bitten by not-square squares so splurged on the rather expensive Woodpeckers square.

If I'm cutting multiple pieces of the same size, I like to make a jig/fixture to ensure absolute accuracy. I don't use a parallel guide system. Nothing against them, just prefer jigs.

I guess you could cut the channels with a router. I'd make several rough cuts followed by the finish cut being very shallow. There have been several posts saying bamboo dulls cutting tools quickly. I've never used bamboo so can't say.

Good luck!

 

[Mrhume]

Hi Birdhunter,
thanks so much for your reply, I really appreciate the help! 

Do you think it would be possible to use the TS55 to cut the channels, just by setting the depth of the blade very shallow?  Or is that a recipe for ruined wood?  I will get a router if it's the only way, but it's not a small purchase.

Also, for routing the channels, would it work to route them into the full size sheet, and then chop it up into smaller segments, to save time?  I feel like this will cause me problems in the end, but I've never tried that approach so I thought I'd ask...

 

[semenza]

Hi,

  Welcome to the forum!  [smile]

    You can make the channels with the TS55, but it will be a slow process.  Depending on the set up , either the rail or the work piece needs to be repositioned for each pass with the saw and doing a channel that is 3/4" wide , for example , takes quite a few passes. I have done it in an oddball  or no router handy situations but it is not the best way.

Seth

 

[Birdhunter]

You get a maximum of 1/8" kerf (blade thickness) per pass through the wood. Since the cuts would have to overlap to cut the channels, you would get less than 1/8" per cut. Also, the bottom of the channel would be very jagged.

A router would be the best tool based on my understanding of your needs unless the CNC shop would cut the channels.

In Atlanta, there is a business that rents time in a fully equipped woodworking shop staffed by experienced woodworkers. You might want to see if there is something like that near you.

 

[semenza]

Is there any tolerance at all for the size of the blanks? If not then you might need to look into CNC cutting for the blanks also. A Festool saw set up can be very precise but there are limits if the tolerance is zero .......

Seth

 

[Mrhume]

A millimeter on either end will probably be ok.  Too much more may cause issues - namely that I would have to recompute the g-code for each CNC job, which would not be ideal, to say the least.  Do you think it's possible to be as accurate as that?

Come to think of it, though, the pieces are meant to be paired, so provided I can get them to be identically sized pairs, I may be able to fudge things a tiny bit.

 

[AlexThePalex]

You can cut to that tolerance no problem with the TS55, but doing it with so much pieces will be a PITA. The problem with the tolerance is not the saw, it is you, the operator. Every time you have to reposition the track there's a chance for error.

Doing this with a table saw will be so much faster and hassle free. If you don't have a table saw, pay the guys at the wood store to do it for you. 

 

[Tayler_mann]

It shouldn't really matter weather it is CNC'd or not. I guess I would build my own Mft and make it 4 - 30" x 60" pieces of MDF that get CNC'd since it sounds like you have access to a CNC. I CNC finger joints into mine so I jnow I can easily align all the holes and everything is square. Than I mayself use rip dogs and bench dogs and have measured corner to corner on all the panels I cut and I think I had one of them that was a mm or two off and it was user error.

I feel the setup you have posted is a very very good start and you should be able to produce repeatable accurate work all the time. There will be a learning curve so maybe practice with cheaper material. Also, I'm not sure if you get a table saw that would help you unless it is a sliding table saw. In which, you hit a much higher price point than what you'll spend on the festool. Also instead of the midi just get the 26 or 36. It really doesn't cost that much and will save you on bags anyways especially if you are using the TS.

Also to point out with the mft3 and the parallel guides you really do t have to invest in a custom top. However I love having a table bigger than a 4' x 8'. If you want I can send you the CNC file I made for mine.

One more side note, why don't you have hem cut the panels on the CNC? Just curious.

 

[Tayler_mann]

Hi Birdhunter,
thanks so much for your reply, I really appreciate the help! 

Do you think it would be possible to use the TS55 to cut the channels, just by setting the depth of the blade very shallow?  Or is that a recipe for ruined wood?  I will get a router if it's the only way, but it's not a small purchase.

Also, for routing the channels, would it work to route them into the full size sheet, and then chop it up into smaller segments, to save time?  I feel like this will cause me problems in the end, but I've never tried that approach so I thought I'd ask...

By the of 1400 and guide stop for the rail and make the channels with that. It's amazingly accurate and easy to use. I love mine.

 

[Holmz]

You can cut to that tolerance no problem with the TS55, but doing it with so much pieces will be a PITA. The problem with the tolerance is not the saw, it is you, the operator. Every time you have to reposition the track there's a chance for error.

Doing this with a table saw will be so much faster and hassle free. If you don't have a table saw, pay the guys at the wood store to do it for you.

^This^. The place the sells the wood does this all day long.
Then sort out the slot routing with a jig.

 

[sancho57]

The folks that have answered your post are all experienced wood workers and experienced Festool users.

One thing I would mention is that there is a definitely learning curve to the Festool system.

AWe used to say it's a different way of woodworking.
A
With that being said and you seem to be cost conscience about the material especially dealing with waste.

I would be sure to play with the tools a while, go to Festool TV on utube, search the site here for various discussions.
A guy who I haven't seen for a while you might want to search for he NYTinyShop
He had lots of good info working in a small shop in NYC.

I would start first by getting a known square square to use setting up your MFT. A woodpeckers 1280 seems to be the most popular.

There have been a infinite amount of questions by people as to why they are not getting square cuts.All have boiled down to not having a known square square.
But with that being said.

Other then what you all ready have I would get the 1010 or 2200 routers to route the "channels". They work great using the guide rails.

Yes there is a 1400 in between you could also use, if I state my reasons why I chose not to use it would start this discussion off in another direction.

 

[Tayler_mann]

The folks that have answered your post are all experienced wood workers and experienced Festool users.

One thing I would mention is that there is a definitely learning curve to the Festool system.

AWe used to say it's a different way of woodworking.
A
With that being said and you seem to be cost conscience about the material especially dealing with waste.

I would be sure to play with the tools a while, go to Festool TV on utube, search the site here for various discussions.
A guy who I haven't seen for a while you might want to search for he NYTinyShop
He had lots of good info working in a small shop in NYC.

I would start first by getting a known square square to use setting up your MFT. A woodpeckers 1280 seems to be the most popular.

There have been a infinite amount of questions by people as to why they are not getting square cuts.All have boiled down to not having a known square square.
But with that being said.

Other then what you all ready have I would get the 1010 or 2200 routers to route the "channels". They work great using the guide rails.

Yes there is a 1400 in between you could also use, if I state my reasons why I chose not to use it would start this discussion off in another direction.

Another great place to look for info on the festool system is The Dovetail Joint - jerryworks.com. He had a lot of great uses and reads for using the domino, Mft, and sanders. The first one you might want to read is the document on the Mft. Here is the link:

mft document

 

[Birdhunter]

Regarding routing for the channels, my experience is that new very sharp router bits, especially carbide bits, will leave a clean edge if you take a light cut. The minute the bit dulls, you get blow-out. This is especially true on really hard wood. There are spiral bits that help minimize blow-out. Your local woodworking store should be able to advise you. I've never used bamboo, so I can't help with that.

A Festool 1400 router would be perfect for the channels.

 

[nickao]

As previously mentioned, why not CNC the blanks right from a 4x8 sheet?

You cant possibly save any money cutting those blanks with traditional tools when you have access to a CNC. My guess is it will cost you more in both time and money using the Festool's .

What do the parts look like after being processed on the CNC?

 

[rst]

For a situation like this, where finished size is imperative, you will need to make jigs to hold your rails in precise positions.  The Festool track saw and routers are perfect for this.  For the channels, I would have a jig to hold the rails and cut the outside dimensions with the TS and then rout the waste.  I make multiples (up to 100 at a time) of many designs out of plastics and have not used my Powermatic with sliding table for any of this since.

 

[ear3]

+1 on the true square. Woodpeckers makes a 32" Tsquare, and you may be able to post a WTB  ad here or elsewhere to get the 26 or 18 inch framing squares they have made in the past as one time tools.

And since no one has mentioned it, I should add that there are several  aftermarket options on the parallel guides that give you more flexibility, are easier to set, and cost less  than the festool ones, since they rely on t tracks that you supply. They are helpfully listed in one of the top threads on the festool jigs and enhancements subforum.

Rail guided routing is the bomb by the way.  Do you have room in your shop for the 3000 rail?

Since I also have to deal with space constraints in my NYC shop, I found the best setup for me for processing sheets that are too big for the MFT is a couple of foldable saw horses with a sacrificial wood cover on top. That way I can cut directly  on the horses without using anot her 4x8 sheet as a cutting table, and when I'm done they fold up and hang on the wall. 

 

[Mrhume]

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful advice, I really appreciate all the knowledge you shared with me.  This is a GREAT forum, I will be browsing it often.

In the end I found a local Makerspace with a table saw, a full 4' x 8' CNC machine, and some experts to work with me so I can hopefully do this in the most cost efficient manner.  Festool is in my future though, in a big way...

To answer the questions about the CNC machine, the CNC I have at home is a Nomad 883, a small "desktop" machine, mostly for prototyping and hobbyist use.  Its working area is 8" x 8" x 3", and it's not particularly fast or powerful, so processing any kind of sheet goods is totally out of the question.  I don't want to speak ill of my machine, though, I LOVE that little thing:  it's small enough and contained enough - in terms of noise and mess - that my wife didn't mind me putting it into our tiny space.  And having it has made me realize that I want to make my hobby into my career, somehow.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[#Tee]

ya like others mentioned the ts would be such a hassle. imo a sharp router bit and pending on depth of cut multiple passes would do the job just fine and fast.