Ambient air cleaners - which one?

Nick,

Regarding the kerosene torpedo heater, I keep the garage door open 6 or more inches behind it for a supply of fresh air, don't store kerosene next to it and never fill a hot or warm unit.

19 years of safety with it is no guarantee of safety in the future, but I have more faith in it than any propane solution which would have not only compressed gas but a white-hot heater.

Aside from the costly approach of adding a natural gas heat solution, how would you heat a garage shop 6+ months of the year?

Gary
 
Well the costly gas, fire and explosion proof , no flame Rezner unit is the way I went and will go that way where ever I live. It is the same cost as a planer or two tools. I actually got it before I ever went into business  and was just a hobbyist.

The best 1600.00(including install) I ever spent. Where I live a heated garage is a HUGE selling point and easily get the money back if I was to move.

I like to know that if I have a flammable liquid or a big spark or kicked over a gallon of flammable finish that the heater will not be the reason I am killed.

Ever since I woke up and had to grab two babies and run out of the house undressed to watch my home 100% destroyed by fire I could not get anything less. I still walk the floors at night 5 years later thinking I smell smoke and walk around sniffing corners and checking for smoke and fire at all hours of the night. 

I am still messed up in the head from that so my piece of mind in at least knowing the shop is safe is worth it to me.

Many people think it cost like 5000.00 and that is not the case. The new units are direct vent right out the side wall.  If you plan the location right it is fairly simple to tap into the existing gas line too, so for me it was not that big of a cost in the entire scheme of things.

 
Nick,

Since it might be of value to others, I'll keep the discussion here rather than contact you directly.  Did you/would you go through the gas company or a major HVAC company to  get one of these quoted and installed or is there another suggested route?

Gary
 
I did not want to chance anything. In the past I did all gas and elec stuff, but for the garage heat  I called an HVAC company. In this particular area for that particular system I did not need a permit. The company also signed off that I did not need a permit and took responsibility for the install.

You can install it yourself, it is so simple, only 110V etc, but I would have probably paid anything. I was even more paranoid then as I am now. It was only like 6 months after the fire when I got the heater so I was really in a shocked state.

If I had fallen a sleep before I smelled anything I would be dead and two of the kids too, no question about it. My wife and other four kids were at the hospital as my son went into kidney failure that day and needed emergency surgery. I had to call my wife at the hospital and tell her the house was gone, not the greatest day for us.

I would call an HVAC company, get three estimates and mention about a permit and leave it on them. My exact words to my wife were if it is hooked up wrong I do not want to have any liability for it. For a stove or something I would do it myself, but a heater in a garage is a touchy thing and every county, town etc have their own rules in addition to the building codes.

I had a friend and it cost him 2350.00 or something like that so it is different depending on your location and how the house is , the size you need or want, the thermostat if you even want one etc. Here a homeowner can do the electric and gas on their own home with a permit, so that may be a way for you to save a bunch of money. Like I said the electrical and gas were not a cost issue for me everything was basically ready to go.

In short go by the book and if it is too expensive so be it, don't do it.

The best thing is it was 19 below and my shop stayed at 50. I turn up the thermostat and in 8 minutes it is 70 in there. I leave it at 50 when I am not out there. You can turn it off and save a lot on the monthly gas bill. From zero degrees to 70 takes no more than 20 - 30 minutes and the unit shuts off.

The funny thing is my garage is a shop no cars are ever in there. It irks my wife to no end that her garage is heated, but she had to get a ride to work last week becasue the cars would not start becasue they are sitting outside!
 
wnagle said:
I hung mine on heavy rubber bungie cords...the kind you use for tie downs.  Hooks screwed right into the ceiling joists.  With the rubber, I get no vibration at all...
Click to expand...

Wayne, if you want vibration isolation mounts, I suggest you use the fabric reinforced rings that are designed for mounting automotive exhausts.  The exhaust on my car weighs >60 pounds and is held up by only two of these rings, which have to withstand the impulse loading that occurs when the car hits a bump in the road.  Using them to mount the air cleaner would not involve any impact or cyclical loading.  You could mount hooks to both the ceiling and the air cleaner and join them with the rubber rings.  You could also add a couple of slightly loose safety chains if you have any concern about failure of the rubber rings.

Dave R.
 
nickao said:
Jay if the filters fill up with dust, which they do, that dust could and will get in your lungs, so how can you not  see it helping ones health?
Click to expand...

My thought is that the dust will eventually settle out of the air anyway.  The filter may (or may not) keep the dust circulating longer by keeping the air moving.  If health is your primary concern, either collect at the source or wear a mask.  The filter is really the last resort, not primary DC.
With my old DC (a two bag Jet 1100) and hand tools that didn't connect to a vac, I usually blew brown boogers after a session in the shop.  So, I got the Jet ambient and nothing really changed except for the amount of dust settling on top of things around the shop.  With an initial shop design focus on DC for my new shop, it's rare that I either use my ambient filter or blow brown boogers.  While they may help decrease the amount in your lungs, the gain is small.  But for keeping the MDF dust off the bicycles and other stuff in your garage shop, worth their weight in gold.

Jay
 
Dave,

I used the bunge cords just because thats what I had on hand.  The vibration reduction was just a secondary benefit that happens to work.  I guess chains would be better with some anti vibration material as you mention or just some safety chains added I suppose.  However my unit isn't really that heavy.  I can't imagine the 4 rubber straps failing for a very long time.  I could be wrong so I'll check them out now and then when I change the filters.  I wouldn't want it falling on my head.
 
JayStPeter said:
nickao said:
Jay if the filters fill up with dust, which they do, that dust could and will get in your lungs, so how can you not  see it helping ones health?
Click to expand...

My thought is that the dust will eventually settle out of the air anyway.  The filter may (or may not) keep the dust circulating longer by keeping the air moving.  If health is your primary concern, either collect at the source or wear a mask.  The filter is really the last resort, not primary DC.
With my old DC (a two bag Jet 1100) and hand tools that didn't connect to a vac, I usually blew brown boogers after a session in the shop.  So, I got the Jet ambient and nothing really changed except for the amount of dust settling on top of things around the shop.  With an initial shop design focus on DC for my new shop, it's rare that I either use my ambient filter or blow brown boogers.  While they may help decrease the amount in your lungs, the gain is small.  But for keeping the MDF dust off the bicycles and other stuff in your garage shop, worth their weight in gold.

Jay
Click to expand...

Well of course it is the last part of the defense and that is how it is marketed and what it is for. I agree with what you say in the above post

7 days of dust on the counter adds up fast and that in itself makes it worth it!

No one in their right mind would try using this as a sole dust collection device.

It is an air scrubber.
 
I have five Festool sanders (I think) but on a recent large project still needed the Fein Multimaster and the PC 330.  The PC 330 generates a lot of dust for its size.  The CT22 with boom handled the vast majority of the Festool dust, but the PC330 generates a cloud.  The PC 330 dust on the project and bench  I just vacuumed away.  The Jet air cleaner above my bench set at high speed pulled much of the airborne PC330 dust straight up from the sander and into its filter.  Very little dust  travelled and settled anywhere.  The air cleaner is well worth its cost and I don't mind the noise when it is doing major work.

Gary
 
What is weird is that if I do not have mine on it feels funny now,. That constant hum just soothes my nerves, I guess I am so used to it. If it is turned off I have to turn it on to concentrate. It just separates me from the family in the house somehow. Yeah I am a little weird.   :)
 
Again, thanks for the ideas.  I like the idea of the heavy duty rubber bungees.  I think I'd add redundant nylon rope of some kind in case of bungee failure - tied in a non-weight bearing loop to catch the air cleaner in case the bungees broke.
 
kfitzsimons said:
Again, thanks for the ideas.  I like the idea of the heavy duty rubber bungees.  I think I'd add redundant nylon rope of some kind in case of bungee failure - tied in a non-weight bearing loop to catch the air cleaner in case the bungees broke.
Click to expand...

I think it depends on your place or on your house.. the structure and the design... i think you my try to search for some models and some brands of air cleaners....

_________________
Lennox Healthy Climate
 
have a jds as well and am very happy with it. hung from the ceiling from tie wire that they use to hang suspended ceilings with. loop the tie wire around in a loop on each hook tiwst tight together, stick a screw driver in the middle of each loop and start turning the screw driver. with the weight of the air cleaner the loop will twist tight like a cable and you will be able to level it up. it rises the tigher you twist the loop
 
              Ambient air cleaners should be used to remove this suspended atmospheric dust. Am I right to this ?

_________________
aprilaire
 
Yes, ambient dust collectors remove dust from the air.  Although I have two dust collectors attached to equipment, a Fein and a Festool vaccuum, I try to remember to keep the ambient air clearner on. 

It is on the ceiling in line with the cabinet saw and draws the airborne air out of the air.  My two tests for ambient dust, with the exception of what  may came out of my nose, is the color of the dust on my VCR upstairs in the house and the dust that settles on the stereo in the shop.  The ambient air cleaner greatly reduces any wood dust that settles on the electronics.  I believe that it therefore greatly reduces what goes in to my lungs.

Gary
 
I  have the delta and like it, although it as any do, has some noise.  I like the remote and timer function.  I also like the large bar indicator on the side should I forget to clean it.  It will let you know when it's getting full.  They server a critical function.  DC's do not pick up the ambient dust which can be significant.  To prove it.  Take a piece of glass work in the shop for a while then put it on a flat survace and come back and check and look at what's laying on the glass.  I generally set mine to run for 30 minutes after I leave and it cuts off.  If I had one complaint it would be that on high if you are close to it, it will be noisy.  I think that when I looked at this and the JDS the JDS was a few db's quieter, but I had a delta deal going and got mine for a great price.  You're smart for taking care of the lungs.
 
Ambient air cleaners should be used to remove this suspended atmospheric dust. Am I right to this ?
Click to expand...
Eh, kind of.  Those air cleaners will remove dust from the air.  However, by the time the dust is cleared to safe levels your lungs will have been significantly exposed to the contaminants.  The amount of dust is takes to cause a medical problem depends on the type of wood and the person (some woods cause almost instant reactions).  Bottom line: these units may reduce the amount of dust on your table (or in your finish) but they are not a replacement for a dust mask and dust collector.
 
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