Another design for universal parallel guide brackets

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think that the absolute need for these to be a perfect 90 is hugely overstated.  At no point is it to be used for a 90degree reference, though obviously in order for the measurement to be perfectly calibrated and repeatable, ideally it would always be registered in the same spot.

But let's say they had a touch of play - it would only introduce a very slight amount of in accuracy to the cut.  Literally a fraction of the amount of play in terms of the accuracy it telegraphed to the actual rail-to-wood.

I would certainly agree that accuracy to the nearest 1/64" should be the goal, but I do have to laugh when folks speak of their .0005 accuracy achieved in any given woodworking task...

Casework to within 1/64 or so is all you'll get and all you'll need in most cases.

Let the engineer woodworkers reply!

Julian
 
Julian Tracy said:
I think that the absolute need for these to be a perfect 90 is hugely overstated.  At no point is it to be used for a 90degree reference, though obviously in order for the measurement to be perfectly calibrated and repeatable, ideally it would always be registered in the same spot.

But let's say they had a touch of play - it would only introduce a very slight amount of in accuracy to the cut.  Literally a fraction of the amount of play in terms of the accuracy it telegraphed to the actual rail-to-wood.

I would certainly agree that accuracy to the nearest 1/64" should be the goal, but I do have to laugh when folks speak of their .0005 accuracy achieved in any given woodworking task...

Casework to within 1/64 or so is all you'll get and all you'll need in most cases.

Let the engineer woodworkers reply!

Julian

human eye can not capture a difference of 1/50 of an inch ( unless one is a genius sharpshooter :), so 1/64 is more than plenty
 
RMW said:
Alan m said:
i dont  think it is the time factor but rather the inconvinince of having to remove and put back on  the parralel guides.
you could probably put on the parralel guides (festool ones) in that time  but i raraly do . i just do the cuts the old fasioned way. .
if you had the bracket on the rail fairly permanantly  all you would have to do is drop on the extrusion and do your cut and pup them off again. everything would stay set up

this is why i love your rip dogs so much. it is really easy to use and stays there ready to use while you are doing other cuts

I don't disagree that it would be more convenient, just don't know how to pull it off elegantly at a reasonable cost.

Glad you like the rip dogs, that was a fun project. I never use the stock MFT hardware any more.

Here is another idea for parallel guides you can make from scrap. The long slotted strip slides in the other piece, which is bolted to a couple sets of dogs. once they are set up it is easy to install/remove them as needed:

I made the long strip over-length then slide it all the way forward and cut it off to establish my zero point:

I normally just zero them out and then measure whatever distance I want to cut on them, mark it on the wood and then slide the strip back to the new mark and lock it in. You can see the 0" and 2" marks, there are a bunch more now.

I can double the capacity by moving them to the furthest set of holes on the MFT.

The dogs position them precisely so no issues with repeat-ability. If I am just trimming something, having started with < a half sheet, I normally use these rather than the PG's. The sheet just needs to fit between the rip dogs. They are also handy for cutting narrow strips of hardwood up to the total length of the rail.

RMW
If you are going to do another run of the "threaded" dogs I would like another few sets  
 
Jerome said:
RMW said:
Alan m said:
i dont  think it is the time factor but rather the inconvinince of having to remove and put back on  the parralel guides.
you could probably put on the parralel guides (festool ones) in that time  but i raraly do . i just do the cuts the old fasioned way. .
if you had the bracket on the rail fairly permanantly  all you would have to do is drop on the extrusion and do your cut and pup them off again. everything would stay set up

this is why i love your rip dogs so much. it is really easy to use and stays there ready to use while you are doing other cuts

I don't disagree that it would be more convenient, just don't know how to pull it off elegantly at a reasonable cost.

Glad you like the rip dogs, that was a fun project. I never use the stock MFT hardware any more.

Here is another idea for parallel guides you can make from scrap. The long slotted strip slides in the other piece, which is bolted to a couple sets of dogs. once they are set up it is easy to install/remove them as needed:

I made the long strip over-length then slide it all the way forward and cut it off to establish my zero point:

I normally just zero them out and then measure whatever distance I want to cut on them, mark it on the wood and then slide the strip back to the new mark and lock it in. You can see the 0" and 2" marks, there are a bunch more now.

I can double the capacity by moving them to the furthest set of holes on the MFT.

The dogs position them precisely so no issues with repeat-ability. If I am just trimming something, having started with < a half sheet, I normally use these rather than the PG's. The sheet just needs to fit between the rip dogs. They are also handy for cutting narrow strips of hardwood up to the total length of the rail.

RMW
If you are going to do another run of the "threaded" dogs I would like another few sets  

Jerome,

I am probably going to do another run of the Rip Dogs soon after this project is on autopilot.  There are some tweaks I want to make to the design before doing another batch. I will let you know.

RMW
 
I think I have the final design locked down and should be able to place the order in the AM. After considering everyone's comments and suggestions and trying a few "improvements" I settled back on the simplest design:

[attachthumb=#]

[attachthumb=#]

[attachthumb=#]

[attachthumb=#]

I just have to sleep on it and decide on the final quantity to order, they should be done around mid-January.

There is another design I am working on for the narrow-stock index plate, it needs some more thought and I don't want to hold up the basic guides so I will place that order separately once I have the bugs ironed out. I will also provide a plan for a simple one anyone can make from a scrap of ply or hardwood.

Thanks everyone for your input and interest.

RMW
 
Hello RMW

I sent you a PM, but just following up to ensure I am on your list.

I am getting good use of your rip dogs.

Thanks so much for your efforts!

Mike Noble, LH, Canada

 
Put me down for all three products you will offer:
*PG's
*Narrow cutters for your custom PG's
*Rip Dogs

I'll probably buy RonWen's too, (and keep my Festool PG's) just to test all three against one another.

What I don't like, I'll just hand off to one of my local Festool using buddy's ;)

Christopher
 
Christopher Robinson said:
Put me down for all three products you will offer:
*PG's
*Narrow cutters for your custom PG's
*Rip Dogs

Christopher

Just to clarify, DITTO for me on all three
Tinker
 
The order is placed for the brackets and stops. 4 weeks is the estimated time to make them.

I have been working on the narrow-stock guide. The idea I have is to make the guide just over 10" long and of Acetal, the same black plastic:

[attachthumb=#]

I envision it being used in conjunction with the adjustable U-shaped stop:

[attachthumb=#]

[attachthumb=#]

[attachthumb=#]

The idea is that the little wings would press against the U stop. To calibrate it you set the U stop at 10", register the wings against it and cut off the excess from the narrow guide. Then to use it just set the U stop at 10" + the width you want to cut, snug the narrow guide against it, lock it down and you should get perfect parallel cuts. To say it another way, set the U stop at 12-1/2" and the 10" narrow guide would give you a 2-1/2" cut.

Thoughts or suggestions?

RMW  

 
It has come to my attention that, as this thread developed, I inadvertently violated the FOG rules about marketing non-Festool products. The FOG is a valuable resource and a great community and I apologize for being a thoughtless guest after being welcomed inside and treated kindly.

I appreciate the feedback and suggestions everyone has provided and am happy to continue the conversation privately if anyone is interested.

RMW
 
RMW said:
It has come to my attention that, as this thread developed, I inadvertently violated the FOG rules about marketing non-Festool products. The FOG is a valuable resource and a great community and I apologize for being a thoughtless guest after being welcomed inside and treated kindly.

I appreciate the feedback and suggestions everyone has provided and am happy to continue the conversation privately if anyone is interested.

RMW
 
Your ideas have been very worthwhile.  I hope this does not put an end to your endeavores.  I wonder if there is another Festool board where you can continue the discussion.  You have addressed a problem that many of us have found with the Festoy PG's.  I would not throw away the set i have, as for ome situations, they do work out well.  I can understand Festools position on the subject.  I don't think i would care to have somebody walk onto my own job and start making suggestions to my customer about how to do something better. 

I hope you are keeping your list in tact and will act on it.  I am still "IN" as long as you are.
Tinker
 
If they had made a set of para guides that had some of the improvements we've discussed here, they'd have no worries about other's improvements.  When they came out they seemed like the cat's meow, but in actual use - could have used a few more rounds of actual user input.  Had a set and sold them the minute I finished the job I was using them on.

Why is this discussion any different than domiplates or Rick's centering jig?  There is apparently some drawbacks to Festool owning these forums in addition to some of the advantages.

Seemingly, there shouldn't be any worries that the faithful here could be led too astray...

Great thread and some good dialog - it's discussons like this that makes this forum a good source of information.

Julian
 
RMW,

Please continue your valuable work. I would like to encourage you to use whatever means of communication you feel most helpful to you.  I have used your RIP dogs for some time now and they are excellent. Am certain your PGs and narrow stock thingies will also be most helpful.  The discussions on FOG have been quite informative and I do hope you find a suitable alternative for public discourse.

Dave
 
Alan m said:
can i ask what rules did you break.

[quote author=RMW]I inadvertently violated the FOG rules about marketing non-Festool products[/quote]

I wonder if it is allowed to discuss this as a general topic, as in "how would a good parallel guide bracket look"?
 
Alan m said:
can i ask what rules did you break.

Forum members may not conduct market research, market, sell, or conduct product development for products that compete with products or services offered by Festool or other Tooltechnic Systems subsidiaries. Posts of this nature will be removed immediately.

All members tagged as retailers got this reminder, i personally wasn't aware of it but it is understandable as this is a festool owned forum.
But it's not always easy to draw a line between selling something that improves the festool products, and something that replaces an existing festool product.
With the necessary interpretation you could by example let my MFTB plans fall in either category.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top